Herb Montes

Did you have the shutter on the viewfinder closed when you shot the footage? When you don't have your eye on the viewfinder stray light can get through your viewfinder and fog the film while making exposures.

I have a Bolex M5 with an EM motor attached. With a prime lens it makes for a lightweight electric camera since the battery is held in a pouch from your belt. It also can drive the 400 foot magazine but this adds weight to the camera. Add a large reflex zoom and you will be needing a shoulder pod or tripod. I once handheld a clockwork M5 with a large Pan Cinor zoom and after several hours my arms were falling off. That's why I eventually got a CP-16. The CP-16 would be a good candidate for an electric camera with 400 foot film capacity and it can be converted to Super 16. There are plenty of them around.

No problem. Keep it going, I'm learning from all of this...

As for using a 16mm projector you might have to mill out the gate a bit since it cuts off some of the edges of the image. I once did a rotoscope experiment with a movie projector using a filmstrip projector for the light source after removing the movie projector bulb and moving the film frame by frame with the inching knob and reflecting from a mirror to the back of an animation board made of clear plexiglass. I was eventually planning on adapting a Slo-Syn animation drive to the inching knob. The same principle applies to the J-K printer. By removing the shutter and having the claw stop while it's in the film before it pulls it down you get a sort of pin registration. One projector ideal for this is the old RCA. I even rebuilt claws for this model.

(apologies for diverting the thread a bit here....)

 

Thanks for that great link- I've seen pictures of Lotte Reininger's vertical stand before, I like how it looks like it's made out of telephone poles and railroad ties!

 

I had been messing with an old Automax 35mm camera to mount on a vertical stand; the placement of the mag on the back of the camera seems better, weight-distribution-wise, than the top mounted mag of the mitchell, plus it's about 20lbs lighter, but I don't really have the expertise to rig the motor electronics for single frame (the wiring/electronic guts had been removed, so just the power and clutch wires from the motor remain) I should probably just 'bay it.

 

A Lathe bed idea seems simple, maybe with a glass plate to hinge and snap down over the art to keep it flat?

I might be able to do something with that AutoMax having machinist and electronic experience. I can make an animation drive for it.

Hi Herb-

 

Do you know if or where there are any pix of the Fleischer stand? I'd be curious about rigging something similar. Do you know how they kept their art flat? Did they use a vaccuum similar to a pre-press plate camera?

 

And Topher, why don't you modify a 16mm projector? It seems like a much easier modification, and those things are both very cheap and very plentiful!

If you buy the "Gulliver's Travels" or "Popeye the Sailor Meets Sindbad the Sailor" DVDs there should be an extra documentary that was made about the Fleischer Studios when it was located in Florida. There are scenes in the camera department showing the horizontal animation stand in use and even some scenes of the 3D setback that was used in some of their films. According to a former Fleischer animator they used lathe beds for their camera stands. From what I read these stands were destroyed when Paramount took over the studio and moved it back to New York. So none may exist. Disney's original multi-plane animation stand still exists. This blog also discusses these unique animation stands:

http://deneroff.com/blog/2008/03/04/willis...ptical-process/

Sure, I'd love to see the prisms if you have time to snap a few pictures.

 

I was looking at some pictures of the cine-special. Are you referring to the 200 ft. mag version, because it looks fairly cramped inside the 100'.

 

What will be the advantages of using the Mitchell for your stand? Will this be a 16mm or 35 Mitchell?

The 200 ft. mag is roomier than the 100 ft. ones.

I recently got a Mitchell 16mm with a Tobin time lapse/animation motor. I want to use it for cel animation because it has pin registration and the rackover allows me to accurately line up the camera. I do eventually want to get a 35mm Mitchell as well. I have a lot of 35mm short ends sitting in cold storage I want to use. Because of the weight of the 35mm camera I may have to build a horizontal animation stand like the kind used by the old Fleischer Studio.

Could you see the perf-side edge of your image with either of those? It seems that the plate guarding the pulldown claws might be in the way of that edge. But with the correct angle it might just squeeze by.

 

I'm guessing it's the "prismatic focus"? listed on this page:

 

http://www.bolexcollector.com/accessories/view40.html

 

I guess it makes sense that some of these same hurdles have already been crossed for rotoscope setups with the Bolex. Did you make a semi-permanent setup with the backlight?

 

 

In other news:

 

I was running some old film through my Bolex at 8 fps with no pressure plate at all. It seemed to handle this fine. Do you think this would wreak havoc on the perfs at 1 FPS or slower? This will be a stationary camera running VERY slow, so I think some of the film guiding features could be sacrificed. I guess I might need some form of pressure plate to be sure the image plane is consistently flat against the gate. Speaking of magnets, something magnetic coming from top and bottom posts, leaving the center open, would be interesting and possibly save space. It might tend to bounce, but in this application, everything will be well at rest during the critical moment.

 

What are some other non-bolex cameras out there with a 1:1 shaft that I might feel less guilty about hacking up? I can almost see a straight shot through the back of my H16, but not without significant casualties. That cheap security-issue M5 is sounding better and better.

 

I've got to remember that once I start cutting holes and doing irreversible damage to the camera, I'm probably better off using a projector, steenbeck, or optical printer... Not giving up that easily though!

I can take pictures of the prisms if you like. As for the backlight it was a simple grain of wheat bulb wired to a AA cell battery pack. I would use it with several cameras I tested on my animation stand including a Kodak Cine Special and B&H 240. The non-reflex Bolex cameras I have are an M4 and an M5. I also have a Rex5 and using the prism I found the viewfinder did not exactly have the same coverage. The viewfinder cutoff a bit around the edges. It makes a difference when filming a 12" wide animation field. Now this was a while ago and I had dismantled my old stand but I'm thinking of rebuilding it, this time a Mitchell camera. As for non-Bolex cameras to consider for your rig there is the Kodak Cine Special. There is a lot of space behind the gate since the pulldown claw is below it. I knew an animator who replaced the Bolex on his animation stand with a Cine Special because he said they had more steady registration. I got two old Cine Specials gathering dust in my collection. They're old and heavy cameras but still work.

I have one of those JK gate prisms and used it to line up my non-reflex Bolex on my animation stand. Since it's hard to get my eye close to the prism I simply used a small light to shine through the prism to project the gate onto my animation board. I later got one of the Bolex gate focusers. The JK prism is held in pace with the same post for the pressure plate. The Bolex focuser uses a magnet to hold it in place. But it has a built-in focusing eyepiece.

One trick I remember seeing in an old book on film titling is to drill a small hole in the center of the lens cap. A string from that hole with a small plumb bob at the end is used to line up the camera to a target on your animation board.

My CP-16 still has the maghead and amplifier in it but without magfilm stock it's redundant. I know Kodak made some Pageant models with mag stripe recording capabilities. Haven't seen one in a long time. Mostly seen the optical track models. This site has manuals for many projectors and their forum can help you with some information:

http://www.film-tech.com/

My regular webhosting is down for the moment so I'll have to link to my scrapbook on my deviantART account. Bolex Rex5 with compact zoom and matte box. Shown with Meritek animation motor. Mounted on a Quicket gearhead and pedestal. This setup is for stop motion animation filming.

http://hmontes.deviantart.com/art/Bolex-Re...Drive-114843197

Yeah I've been on the lookout for an Iris Vingetter for the last year. and they seem to be more than ellusive.

Herb, thanks for the email.

I actually had a large adjustable iris that came from Edmund Scientific. It was used to control the light in a microscope stage. It's big enough to fit in front of most 16mm prime lenses. It's lost among my boxes of gadgets. But you can still get them from their optical accessories site:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/...?productID=1461

Herb I sent you a message. ...awesome! It seems that one I was watching disappeared from ebay.

Bolex accessories go fast on eBay. I have found various ones there and through other sources. The matte box I got I won through eBay in an auction bidding against Andrew Alden himself. Some accessories I'm lucky to find as a result of good timing, like a gate focuser and or magazine rollers. Eventually I find I don't need some things so I sell or trade them. I got two H8s, one I got through a trade another I bought locally. But I use my H16s more often.

I believe the round knob on the side of the viewfinder is the diopter adjusment.

Yeah saw that guy...watching it.

 

I really would love the base that Herb mentioned. The adapter that can adapt the matte box, although my real need is to stabilize my Bolex on the tripod. With my lens and various other attachments, it is worrying me to have t teetering on that little round base.

 

I'll buy that one if it stays cheap. Other wise I might just ask a friend in a machine shop to whip me up something similar.

I can sell you the one I got. It came with a Bolex H8 and I don't really use it since all my H16s are flat base ones. I have another flat base adapter that's made by Bolex. It's silver and much nicer looking. I'll see if I can find them and take some pictures to send you.

See http://cgi.ebay.com/Flat-bottom-plate-for-...1QQcmdZViewItem.

I got one of those. I don't think it allows for attaching the matte box. There is one made to adapt the matte box to round bottom Bolxes but I haven't seen it often.

oops- JK is JK Camera http://www.jkcamera.com (Jaakko Kurhi). I have one of his animation motors that has the Slo-Syn and a controller of his own design, I got it from an animator-special effects guy recently, but it's an older unit (it worked on Evil Dead II!) It's limited to a single shutter speed of 1/3 sec.

 

For a brief bit I looked into making my own animation motor, and there's quite a bit of good info about that if you search the forum for "mitchell motor" or similar over at stopmotionanimation.com. Somebody over there posted rather complete plans and diagrams.

I have a JPG copy of the schematics for wiring a Slo-Syn motor for animation. And you can still buy these motors on the surplus market from this place:

http://www.herbach.com/

Thanks a ton! That really helped me out!

If you're going to do research you should get Andrew Alden's "Bolex Bible". It can answer a lot of questions about the Bolex.

poop, they are threadless?

 

I;m going to do some research on them. Thanks a ton!!

Yes, the lens hood holds the filter in place. And they can't be stacked. The compact Pan Cinor zoom uses Series 7 filters as well. As it is is I use the gel filter holder built into my Bolex.

Hello Bolex friends!

 

So I love my H16 with a Pan Cinor lens.

But, It is too long for the stock Bolex Matte Box, and it is a round base camera, so I would need the flat base adapter to even connect a Matte Box should I buy one.

 

So I have been digging around to find a light LENS END filter holder.

 

I've found a couple nice cheap and light options, but I cant FOR THE LIFE OF ME find a 65mm step ring.

 

The Pan Cinor 70 has 65mm threads. I bought a 67mm just to see if it could work, but alas...no dice.

 

Has any one had any experience with this issue.

 

I cant find 62mm, I can find 67mm...but no 65mm???? Anyone have any ideas or MacGuyer style DIY's?

 

Thanks,.

This lens like other Pan Cinors uses Series 8 drop in filters. I have the Pan Cinor 85 and I use the Series 8 filters on it.

Hi everyone,

 

I have a stupid question....

 

Can you load a 100' daylight reel in the 30 meter magazine of a Kinor 16 cx-2m or you need to have the film without the spool?

 

I told you it was a stupid question :rolleyes:

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Yes, you can load daylight reels in the Kinor mags.

Hi again,

 

anyone know something about problem with unstable Bolex frame ?

I tend to find Bolexes rather stable even in single frame mode. Project the film with the frameline showing. If it breathes then it is something with the camera. Other factors could be in the film transfer to video.

Well, theres another one on ebay right now, from the same seller.

 

Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think finding the tripod head was a major score....it was on ebay with one of those irritating LONG auctions that started at a buck or so. Heck with that. I emailed the seller, made him a silly money offer, and he took it! The tripod is unique to the camera, and the legs are Kodak ones that I modified with original style attachments to the head.

I would love to but my funds are tight right now having been in the hospital and medical bills to pay off. I'm even looking to sell off some of my gear to make ends meet.

"Roscoe"

 

Ah, that's a beauty. Would love to shoot with one of those.

I just purchased a Kodak Cine A. Ive freed up the focus, which was frozen and reset the focus calibration. Its ready to shoot.

 

A few questons....anyone out there working with this Ol gal?

 

Im thinking of altering it to take single sprocket, since I intend to do a lot of shooting. Any tips?? thanks

Mike over at the Cine Kodak collector's forum knows a lot about these cameras:

http://messages.cinekodak.org/index.php