rbg

Hey,

Just wondering if anyone has done an offline with the proxies that are automatically generated by red and then done an online/conforming thing at a post house after?

It does look like a nice alternative to regular DI or HD telecine for anybody shooting Super16, especially on a budget. Good to see you knocking around on here Eric!

I just heard about this too from a post-production super I know - he mentioned they've been offering this for about a month. We're going to pay them a visit next week to discuss a feature for later this year. I'll report back what we find after we talk to them. It does sound promising, though...

 

PS. Hey Ryan!

Hey,

Just found out about this: http://www.laserpacific.com/pdf/LaserPacific_inDI_v2.pdf

I'm wondering if anyone has feedback, experiences, comments.

Looks like a good indie-tool??

Ryan Barton-Grimley

BEAUTIFUL WORK!!

By far the best looking HDV/Mini-35 stuff I've seen.

I think your underlighting, may have actually helped the look???

Anyhow, how much color correction was done?

Again, really nice work!

RBG

Hey,

I'm just wondering if anyone has been using the Movie Tube since the last thread? New info, experiences?

Any examples of stuff shot recently???

Thanx!

RBG

Thank-you for your response David.

Actually we will do the 2k scan from the EDL.

We won't be scanning all 56K, my mistake.

Thanks for the ballpark pricing and the breakdown.

Its definitely helpful. I appreciate your input, as always.

RBG

You want to transfer all 56,000' at 2K? Why not telecine it to regular video, cut it, generate an EDL, and re-transfer the actual shots you used for the final cut off of the camera rolls at 2K?

 

Generally a D.I. bid breaks down roughly into these categories:

1) Scanning

2) Autoconform (assuming uncut neg)

3) Titles, building transition effects (fades & dissolves), etc.

4) color-correction

5) dust removal and scratch repair

6) laser recording to 35mm

7) downconversions to other video formats like HD, etc., perhaps needing a quick pass at color-correction again for overall adjustment.

 

You can figure that an average 100 minute feature is going to cost around $50,000 or more to laser-record out to 35mm. You can figure that color-correction will probably take 5 to 10 days minimum, but maybe $500/hr, 8 hours per day, so $4000/day, so $20,000 to $40,000 total. Then there are all the other costs, which is why a D.I. is rarely less than $100,000 and often more than $200,000.

Thanks for the response. I'm definitely open to working with a post supervisor.

Any recommendations are welcome. Thanks again.

RBG

I could list essentially every post facility in Los Angeles, as just about all of them are capable of doing this, but what's the point? You really need to talk to and hopefully hire a post supervisor who understands the process, rather than ask general questions in an open Internet forum. If you wish, I can provide you with some names.

Hey all,

Was wondering if any of you have any recommendations for Post Houses in LA, specifically to do 2K Digital Intermediate on a Super16 feature, aproximately 56k feet. Also, the pricing info I've been getting has been all over the place, so I'm wondering if anyone has ballpark pricing. We want to end up with something to project, as well as have an HD render for the DVD master.

Thanks!

RBG

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for "Horror/Gore" specialFX in Central America or in Los Angeles that would go to Central America, but not for "an arm and a leg." Haha!

Also recommendations for stunt coordination - some car/motorcycle, mostly fighting, some gunplay w/ squibs, as well. We're looking for good professional stuff, but not excellent. We're expecting stuff to be a little cheesy as it actually works with the project being a comedy. I know this may be out of context on the forumn, but it I figured, if any of you have been shooting this kind of stuff, maybe you met some cool people that are good at what they do????

Thanks for the time

RBG

Thanks Michael!

It looks pretty good in the video. Did you notice the flaring softness around the outside of the frame?

I wonder if that is the flare that the Abel Cine Tech guy said would happen if the camera's internal focal length is set much above 25mm???? Anyhow, an interesting product for low budget filmies non-the-less.

RBG

Here's a sample of the movietube w/the DVX-100:

http://www.313music.de/video_u96featben_vorbei_dsl.html

 

And the making of:

http://www.313music.de/video_u96_makingof_dsl.html

 

You can only tell so much on a reduced-size window on a computer, however.

 

Given that you'll never get a sharper image from a relay-lens adapter than what you could get without it, your camera choice comes down to which camera gives you the picture quality that you like (taking the recording format into account, of course). For this reason I was disappointed that you have to use the Canon XL-H1's stock lens in addition to the Movietube-plus-taking lens. I wonder if all that glass plus the microcrystaline would handicap the little bit of extra picture quality you get from the Canon (vs. other HDV's). A test would show you, though.

 

But this comes from the standpoint of only playing with the various setups, including the same one you saw at cinegear. FWIW, it did look good.

 

But Mitch seems to have an inside track to the device. Anything else you can share with us, Mitch?

A few questions:

The image was very clean! And no moving parts either. Pretty cool.

What camera do you recommend most with the Movie Tube unit? I saw it on the Panasonic, but I really want to shoot on some kind of tape, so maybe the JVC GY-HD100U for native 24p??? I don't have a P2 reader and I don't have one of the New Mac Lap-tops that reads them either otherwise I would. My editor has an Avid, so I figured I'd up-load by firewire directly into the system using the camera, at the end of the shoot, and I'd have the tapes as a back up. Anyhow, is there any footage available? Has anyone seen footage projected big?

RBG

The big difference with the MovieTube is that it uses a micro-crystaline material for it's "groundglass" imaging surface. It is so much sharper and cleaner than other surfaces that it does not need to be rotated or jiggled or whatnot in order to hide the surface. The result is a sharp, clean image with great contrast and color and no "light diffusion" effect common in all the others.

 

Mitch Gross

Abel Cine Tech

Hey,

I saw the Movie Tube product at Cine Expo this weekend at the Abel cinema tent on a Panasonic P2 camera.

It is meant to be a better product than the Mini-35 and the Red Rock gizmos. It looked kind of cool. From what I could see, the only problem was losing 2 stops of light. Has anybody seen or used it? Opinions, ideas, comments?

RBG

Would anyone have a suggestion on some 16mm camera rental houses that help the indie filmmaker, more so than the larger houses?

 

I'm working on my director's reel and want to shoot as much as possible. Most rental places won't budge on their price-list.

You could try Wooden Nickel. I heard they're cool.

http://www.woodennickellighting.com/pages/...nmainframe.html

Hi,

 

I'll be directing and DPing my first feature in October. Casting starts next month.

 

For those that have produced and directed features, what has been the typical procedure for rehearsing scenes with actors prior to starting shooting?

 

Have you spent two three weeks in a rehearsal room going over scenes?

 

Do you expect the actors to show up on set with lines learned and then do a few dry run throughs before you shoot a few takes?

 

A combination of the two?

 

I'll be working with two principles, neither of whom are "mega stars" so I'm curious how much I should rehearse them?

 

Too much I assume will ruin the natural feel of the scenes? Spielberg talks in his making of interviews about trying not to do too many takes or the actors become too familair with the scene and the natural feel gets lost.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks

R,

 

PS: I will be shooting 35mm, so 20 takes of each scene is not an option.

I'm assuming you have auditioned these actors and liked what they did enough to cast them, so really... it is all about working from there. Every actor works differently, but as some others mentioned, the words are important, but the meaning is more important. If they actually know what they're saying and trying to get from the other actor, they should be active, real, and dynamic, or at least as much as the story will allow them. How long it takes to get to this point depends on the actor. Don't beat it to death with the specific dialogue and let them improv the scenes in their own words during the rehearsal. This will tell you where they're at in understanding what the heck is really going on in the scenes. A trick I've used before with good to great results on set when actors are stuck in a "loop" or stuck delivering the words in the same way over and over, ie..... not in the moment, is to have them deliver the scene in their own words as close to the actual words in the script as possible. I have them do it a few times until they're back at the meaning and what they're trying to get, then I have them do it again right before we roll camera, then roll camera/sound, and have them deliver the scripted words immediately. I've gotten some great results that way, really real, dynamic...

RBG

Ideas?? Thoughts??? Suggestions???

Probably going to be shooting something in Costa Rica on Super 16. I've heard that there are labs in Miami that are decent, but would prefer to get it done at PhotoKem. Either way, does anyone have experience with getting exposed film out of Central America to either Miami or LA to get it developed and get Dailies back down there within a couple of days?????

As always, thank-you all for your help and suggestions.

RBG

Sure it's not flicker from a light source or sources on the shoot? I don't see any way flicker like that could be your camera.

Unfortunately, I am sure it wasn't from light sources, as I was shooting outside with a stationary bounce. Nothing was moving.

RBG

Had that problem with a Bolex EBM a few years ago. Never did get it solved. In retrospect after having discussed the issue with many different folks, I think what happened is that the gear train just had too much slop in it from many years of use, and the way the Bolex motor works, with a crystal sync (we had a Tobin sync on it) the motor was regulating itself by slightly speeding up or slowing down to keep at 24fps, and that combined with the slop in the gear train, caused the shutter to "bounce" which cause the exposure to flicker. It did this under tungsten lights as well as outdoors. When we took the crystal sync off, and just ran the camera at the non-crystal 24fps, the speed drifted around a bit, but the shutter "bounce" and the resultant flicker went away.

 

If you have a strobe, you should be able to see if the shutter is "bouncing", which would be one thing that could be causing the flicker. What shutter "bounce" looks like with a strobe, is if you set the strobe at 24fps and shoot it at the rotating shutter (I am assuming your camera is crystal sync) you should be able to freeze the edge of the shutter blade as it passes the gate. If the camera is crystal sync and everything is working perfectly, the edge of the shutter will freeze in one position, say halfway through the gate. With "bounce", you will notice the shutter will freeze for a second, then drop down further over the gate, then jump back up to the middle again, freeze, drop down, jump back up, as if it were bouncing. This causes shorter exposure on one or a few frames and longer exposure on one or a few frames, back and forth, hence the flicker.

 

-Tim Carroll

I took it into George Zorzolli at Optical Electro House in Culver City. He's gonna check it out. What you're describing sounds like what is happening, especially the part about the exposure jumping around, frame to frame. Damn! I hope he can fix it. I'll post his results.

Thanks for the info. Tim.

RBG

Hey-

I just shot a spec music video on my CP - GSMO and during the transfer, both the colorist and I noticed a flicker in the footage. It happened on multiple lenses, multiple mags, and I used multiple batteries, so I'm thinking it's something electronic, something to do with the regulation of the motor speed. It's not super bad yet and is only really noticible in the whites, but the colorist said all of the levels were spike-ing. I want to save it before it gets worse. The camera is like one of my kids. Does anyone have experience with this in a Cinema Products camera, or a GSMO to be exact??? Help??

Thanks

RBG

Beautiful stuff! I absolutely love your use of light and color. And you're not afraid to go dark. Great reel!

RBG

hello everyone.

 

here is the link to the trailer:

 

we shot on 7279 with a 16bl and zeiss highspeed primes.

 

the quality of the videofile is rather crappy, but you might get an idea.

 

comments are of course highly welcome.

greetings,

Hey-

I think it looked great. I loved the use of color and lower levels of light. Composition was cool. Nice and moody.

Good work!

RBG

Hey guys,

 

Just saw a sneak preview of Inside Man on Wednesday and it was great....(I promise not to give anything away.)

 

However, after seeing the film I'm wondering what sort of detriment a short shutter angle can cause to panning. I know the DP, Libatique, chose to contrast the stories of Denzel and Clive with one being frentic, chaotic feeling while the other is smooth and premeditated. And it works. However, some stuff was so disorienting and I'm wondering if it was the short shutter angle that might cause a severe stutter effect on some of the pans. It was the only thing that really brought me out of the film as there are a few points with this stuttering pan going on and a few shots that are just nauseating in their movement without much narrative reason. It was like Blair Witch without the Witch.

 

Anyone care to answer or share their thoughts about the visual feel of the film?

Hey-

I'd have to agree with you about the short shutter angle on some of those panning shots. It really pulled me out of an otherwise decent film. There is a shot that pans around a room over some pictures on the wall, something that we've seen in other films for sure, but due to the short shutter angle, it was mostly out of focus and kind of pointless. I understand the artistic decision to add a hyper-active quality to the film in certain moments, thus enhancing the story, but during a shot that is basically expositional, it seemed mis-used or even a mistake. Also, when arbitrarily intercut with footage shot with a longer shutter angle, it just didn't work. Other than that, good job Mr. Spike Lee, and good job Matthew Libateque, very entertaining, dolly-shot and all.

RBG

Because CP16R footage will look just like any other 16mm footage, just show them any good-looking film shot on 16mm, and tell them "this is what it will look like."

Amen Brother! I have a CP-GSMO and the footage looks the same as any other 16mm camera.

It is all about the lense you put on the box, how you meter it, and how good the lighting is. I've seen

stuff shot on an SR-3 that didn't look any better than some of the stuff I shot out of my little GSMO with

some nice glass in front of it. That's it. Good luck.

RBG

Hey-

Nice work on the camera light. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Thanks for the reinforcement on the frame/per/second thing with the

singer. I appreciate it. And again, nice work. The video looks great!

RBG

A video I did for the singer Chris Garneau about 8 months ago has been finished.

 

I've posted it on my website:

http://www.mediumgrey.com/music%20videos.html

 

Click on the image at right to play.

 

Comments and critiques welcome.

 

Some tech info:

 

35mm

Kodak Expression

uncoated lenses from Panavision shot wide open at a T2

shot at 36 fps, Arri 3

 

'flicker' is intentional

 

7 hour shoot from arrival to drive away

Hey-

Nice quick work! Is that mostly practical lighting? I really like the 36 fps, looks very soft... and the talent is interesting as well. Is the singer singing along in synch? I'm wondering because I'm shooting/directing a music video on monday where I was gonna do most of it at 48fps and have the singer sing along to a track sped up to double the normal speed, so that it would be in synch with him in slo-mo, but the track was so fast his performance was gonna be a problem. Also, coordinating extra action at that speed is tricky to get it precise....I'm gonna shoot him at 30fps, and do some of the action of the additional action at 48 and 64.

Thought and ideas appreciated....

RBG

Here's a still from a Duran Duran video. I noticed there was a nice, clean "rectangle" of light over the first guy's eyes. The thing is, the light gradually moves up his face in the video, so I don't think it's a matter of cutting the light with a couple flags. It seems as though there is a snoot or something on the light giving it a sharp edge. I'd like to experiment with this myself. Any ideas?

 

Hey-

You can rent a leko at most lighting rental houses for 20-30 dollars. They're only 575 watt, but depending on the degree of the lense, can be pretty bright. You can also get a pattern holder and put steel gobo patterns in them that are focusable. The cutters(like shutters) are super quick and easy to work with. I use these lights on stages frequently and they're really cool.

RBG

I agree with the above post. Go Super16. You can get really good deals and with the new stocks available, it can look really nice. If you ask a film distributor what medium they prefer, they'll still tell you: first - 35mm, second - Super16, third - HD, and absolutely NOOOOO DV. Super 16 is cheaper than 35 and HD, so the choice seems pretty simple.

RBG

Ryan Barton-Grimley

Hey,

Not bad for 400 bucks! There's some good stuff in there and I'm sure you learned a lot. That's the most important thing, right? The look of it was pretty good, you got the whole "cool, blue, urban thing" going. There are definitely adjustments in the lighting that you could have made, but there always are. Some of the framing and movement could have been more creative, but I don't know how much was based on the actor's blocking or vice/versa??? The writing was OnTheNose and melodramatic and the actors played it that way and then some. The script will always be the blueprint. I personally have lit and shot the hell out of a few sub-par scripts with bad actors, that I wrote and I've become a better film-maker and writer for it. Keep shooting and writing!

Ryan Barton-Grimley

RBG