How many non-IMAX 15-perf cameras are there?

[Geffen Avraham]

I'm aware of the Wilcam W-4, the Fries Ultra 70, and Bruce McNaughton's 15/70 camera. Logmar is also building one now.

Some of IMAX's own cameras are branded MSM, which means they were built by Marty S. Mueller. I don't know about their other cameras though.

There's also a Photosonics handheld camera that shoots 14-perf 70mm at 22 fps.

 

Edited March 10, 2024 by Geffen Avraham

[Malcolm Ian Vu]

Is the Imax MSM the same camera as the Iwerks 1570?

[Rosc Oshe]

No, MSM built the Iwerks 870 camera. Iwerks built their own 1570 cameras

[Geffen Avraham]

I found some pictures of an Iwerks 1570, not sure who built it, it seems distinct from a Fries 3x65.

[Geffen Avraham]

It does look very stylistically similar to an MSM though

[Geffen Avraham]

I asked this question because I found a cinematographer on twitter who was debunking the hype about Oppenheimer being the first film to shoot B&W IMAX - he had shot B&W on an Iwerks 1570 back in the 90s.

[Mark Dunn]

A little pedantic, I know, but I saw a 5/70 print, and from the looks of it the b/w scenes were shot in 5/65, not 15/65.

[David Mullen ASC]

No, there was plenty of 15P 65mm b&w in "Oppenheimer".

[Geffen Avraham]

On 1/26/2025 at 1:09 PM, Rosc Oshe said:

No, MSM built the Iwerks 870 camera. Iwerks built their own 1570 cameras

The 7th edition of the ASC manual does not mention 1570, but it does provide interesting information about 870 cameras.

Here is the MSM 8870, 8 perf 65mm camera. Presumably this was the one used by Iwerks.

[Geffen Avraham]

And this is the Fries 865, which I had previously heard of:

[Geffen Avraham]

https://archive.org/details/asc-1993-american-cinematographer-manual.pdf/

Here you can find more information about these cameras, as well as the Wilcam VistaVision systems. I did not know, for instance, that Wilcam designed the CP-65 Showscan camera.

[Geffen Avraham]

On 1/26/2025 at 1:09 PM, Rosc Oshe said:

No, MSM built the Iwerks 870 camera. Iwerks built their own 1570 cameras

According to LFExaminer, the Iwerks 1570 camera was originally contracted to Cinema Products, who started with a Williamson (Wilcam) movement, but ended up heavily modifying it.

https://lfexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/LFX-V04N02.pdf

Edited May 21, 2025 by Geffen Avraham

[Scott Shepley]

Yes, Cinema Products was originally contracted to build the camera to Iwerks specs. Part way through the project, CP went bankrupt. Iwerks then brought the project in house and finished it. I am the owner of the camera so if you have any questions about it, please let me know.

[Geffen Avraham]

That's amazing. How many Iwerks 15/70 cameras are there? Did they ever achieve 60fps capability?

Do you have any pictures of the rehoused Hasselblad lenses? How did you acquire this one? Is it available for rent?

[Geffen Avraham]

Also, does Iwerks still have the lightweight 22-pound 8/70 MSM camera?

I love this forum, you'll post a link to an article and the fellow from the article will show up!

Edited May 23, 2025 by Geffen Avraham

[Scott Shepley]

I supervised the camera dept. at Iwerks for 25 years. When I retired in 2016, so did the camera dept. The entire camera inventory has been with me since.

There are 2, 1570 cameras. Those cameras can run up to 48fps but that is really pushing them. I have no immediate plans for those cameras.

Yes, I have the MSM 870 lightweight as well as all of the 870 cameras that MSM built.

 

[Geffen Avraham]

That's amazing. Do you by any chance have a picture of the Lightweight 870?

I'm curious if, in theory, a blimp could be created for it. Even if the blimp was double the weight of the camera, it would still be lighter than an Arri 765.

[Geffen Avraham]

By the way, thanks to a post here from @Charlie Peich, I was able to track down a photo of the elusive Wilcam W-4 from AC, Feb 1983.

[Scott Shepley]

MSM 8/65 studio and lightweight

 

[Geffen Avraham]

A DP from MacGillivray Freeman told me the magic keyword to search - it isn't "Wilcam W-4", it's "MacGillivray Freeman behind the scenes"

And at last, beautiful images of this beautiful camera:

Edited December 9, 2025 by Geffen Avraham

[Geffen Avraham]

Apparently, Geoff Williamson may have built two other 15/70 cameras: the Wilcam W-8, capable of 120fps in IMAX(!), and the W-14 lightweight camera, said to weigh only 34 lbs when fully loaded, both for MacGillivray Freeman.

Edited January 15 by Geffen Avraham

[Steven Wyatt]

Hello everyone, 

I've been keeping abreast of all the information pouring out of this topic. I'd be really keen in speaking to someone about being able to test/rent a 15 perf 65mm camera, I work at a University and we're R&Ding large format 65mm cameras as well as conduct training courses here in the UK on film. Happy to speak to any one that is able to steer me in a direction of any individuals that could assist me in finding out where and how to obtain any of these cameras for testing....

I look forward to your responses.

Many Thanks

Steve

[Geffen Avraham]

You're one of the University of Salford people working with the Logmar Magellan, right?

[Mark Wiggins]

4 hours ago, Geffen Avraham said:

You're one of the University of Salford people working with the Logmar Magellan, right?

He certainly is. They are doing sterling work up there!🙂

[Steven Wyatt]

Hi Geffen and Mark - this correct ! It’s been a very interesting and fun process. Happy to talk more about it if you’re interested in hearing more. This was the camera at bsc expo.(see below)

thank you for the kind comments Mark. We’re a small team I’m only one small part trying to push what we can with small set of resources.

were interested in being able to look at other 65mm camera systems for study including imax. 

Many Thanks

steve

Edited Saturday at 09:35 AM by Steven Wyatt