A Future for Plus-X in 2024?

Paco Sweetman · April 8

I was speaking to a cinematographer friend this morning who has just shot on Double-X 5222, and asked him this question:

"With all the resurgence in film over the last decade, (albeit to a lesser degree then in the past) and with noteable use of actual B&W film in films like Oppenheimer and The Lighthouse etc, why has there not been a reissue of Kodak's Plus-X for cinematography?"

I remember being in film school years ago and two tutors talking so enthusiastically about it and the images it produced and obviously reading about filmmakers using it for Down by Law, and on films like Raging Bull and Schindlers List.

Has anyone asked Kodak? Or is it a simple case of economics?

More importantly would that be a stock that cinematographers would like to see back in availability?

Gautam Valluri · April 8

It looks very unlikely. Kodak decided to hold onto Double-X and to a lesser extent Tri-X mostly as a single option for BW neg and reversal each. Double-X is faster speed stock than Plus-X and with its signature grain looks more obviously like "film" especially for the Super8 market.

With the possibility of shooting Vision 3 stocks and then desaturating the colours in post coming close to the "Plus-X" kind-of image, I seriously doubt Kodak will invest in bringing it back.

Ektachrome probably was brought back because of the Super 8 market, at least that's what I've understood.

1 hour ago, Paco Sweetman said:

More importantly would that be a stock that cinematographers would like to see back in availability?

I think almost everyone here would be on board with seeing Plus-X back. It just doesn't look like its going to happen.

Paco Sweetman · April 8

Thanks for your response Gautam. I remembered (maybe incorrectly) reading somewhere a year ago that Kodak were planning on bringing back some old stocks after seeing the reaction to Ektachrome so I always hoped that Plux-X might be one of them.

Jeff Bernstein · April 8

2017

Kodak CMO Steven Overman. "We get asked all the time by filmmakers and photographers alike, ‘Are you going bring back some of these iconic film stocks like Kodachrome [and] Ektachrome?' I will say, we are investigating Kodachrome, looking at what it would take to bring that back. Ektachrome is a lot easier and faster to bring back to market. People love Kodak’s heritage products and I feel, personally, that we have a responsibility to deliver on that love.” (23:40)

2019

Kodak restarts production of 35mm Ektachrome.

2022

"Spike Lee, Euphoria cinematographer Marcel Rév, and other filmmakers spoke to IndieWire about Ektachrome’s comeback."

https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/euphoria-taylor-swift-ektachrome-1234712364/

Edited April 8 by Jeff Bernstein

Paco Sweetman · April 8

That must have been what I was thinking of Jeff. Just goes to show how memories compress with age hahaha.

Karim D. Ghantous · April 10

I would like to see Kodak release a b&w film with several layers, which would give a huge amount of latitude - more than any digital sensor today. Who knows if they will even bother thinking about it.

Gautam Valluri · April 10

5 hours ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

I would like to see Kodak release a b&w film with several layers, which would give a huge amount of latitude - more than any digital sensor today. Who knows if they will even bother thinking about it.

I personally think the BW stocks are interesting exactly for their limited latitude. With 95% or more films going through the DI process, if anyone wanted more latitude in their BW stocks, they could just shoot Vision3 and colour grade to greyscale like "The White Ribbon" or "Good Night and Good Luck".

Business-wise, having one BW negative stock and one BW reversal in 16mm/ Super 8 is a solid strategy to cater to such a small demand. Having a new BW stock might make sense if Kodak wants to replace Double-X with a cheaper, easier to manufacture stock.

I only wish the ORWOs were more reliable in usage. I've heard fellow filmmakers claim the UN54 approaches the Plus-X realm but they wouldn't dare use it on a serious project due to its well-known camera transport issues.

Karim D. Ghantous · April 12

On 4/10/2024 at 8:34 PM, Gautam Valluri said:

I personally think the BW stocks are interesting exactly for their limited latitude. With 95% or more films going through the DI process, if anyone wanted more latitude in their BW stocks, they could just shoot Vision3

Vision3 is indeed a terrific b&w stock! But its latitude is 15 stops at best, whereas a multi-layer b&w stock could give you 20+ stops.

Gautam Valluri · April 12

3 hours ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

Vision3 is indeed a terrific b&w stock! But its latitude is 15 stops at best, whereas a multi-layer b&w stock could give you 20+ stops.

Very interesting! Have there been any tests done or is it still just theoretical at this point?

This makes a lot of sense for the modern DI workflow.

Karim D. Ghantous · April 14

On 4/12/2024 at 5:59 PM, Gautam Valluri said:

Very interesting! Have there been any tests done or is it still just theoretical at this point?

This makes a lot of sense for the modern DI workflow.

Purely hypothetical. But, I am confident that I am at least 50% correct!