no sync 16 to digital then add audio crazy or bad?

[Sam Javor]

I'm working with a couple of writers on a long short (50-70min) and in the dilema of being poor we also want this to be somewhat marketable after we finish in about a year.

 

Right now it looks like strait 30i video is our only option... but I was thinking about useing a cheap 16mm camera develop the film and have it scanned in at a very high resolution and then add audio etc. I have a history of doing all audio in post with SONAR.

 

So... if I get like a Bolex H16 or REX 4 and record an audio scratch track on a seperate recorder. then have the silent film developed and scanned into computer at a high resolution like atleast 3000dpi and then use an editing software that support high resolution 24p like FCP and import all the frames and do editing/retouching etc. Then manually sync audio to that (which I've done to 30i AVI footage before in SONAR) and then export it for primarially DVD and VHS distribution.... I should end up with a highresolution master DV footage on the hard disk which if I get the $20k I could then "feel good" about transferring to 35mm if necessary right?

 

Is this something that would only be tedious and time consuming while yeilding a good "generally" product or would God himself come down and confine me to hell for thinking of such a thing?

 

I assume real productions go though a similar process otherwise there'd be no use for things like cinepaint.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Sure, that'd work. What you're basically talking about is doing a digital intermediate, which is a technique used commercially to allow an entire feature to be computer manipulated (typically for colour correction and adjustment) then shot back out to film.

 

The problem is the scanning stage. If you can only afford 30i video, I'm surprised you can afford to shoot and process 16mm; but you almost certainly can't afford to have it telecine'd at the resolutions you're talking about, if at all. Hi res film scanning costs a king's ransom, and would almost certainly put paid to your ideas.

 

If you could afford it somehow, you'd be quite likely to end up with a hard disk full of DPX or Cineon frames, which you could indeed then take to a Mac and convert into something FCP could read. It'd work, but it isn't really the low cost approach.

 

Phil

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I'm working right now on my own 35mm film that is being post-synced. It's tough, but it's doable. Many films have been done that way, esp. in eastern europe. Sometimes the quality of the dubbing sucks but that comes with tight schedules, the screw it factor is higher when you have no money.

 

The scanning at 3000 dpi part is where you'll have a problem. There's no such a device available for sale, at least not at a price you can afford. You'd have to sit there and make your own and it'd take you like a year and a day to scan your entire film using scanning technology that you can afford to jerry rig to being a cine scanner.

 

Your best bet is to negotiate a good transfer rate at some tape to film facility. Get one light dailies cheaply first, so you can edit, then when your negative is conformed you can either go off the original negative again or go to a video print and have a supervised telecine session.

 

- G.

[Mitch Gross]

It's not crazy or bad but it's not the best use of your available funds.

 

For around $2000 you can buy a decent basic sync 16mm camera such as a CP16R. A better camera with some basic accessories will bring it up to around $5000, or for that money you could rent a great Super-16 package for a month. A very basic sync sound audio package (non-timecode DAT, shotgun mike, boompole, couple of wireless mikes) will cost around $3K to buy or perhaps $1K to rent for a month. You could probably shoot your short feature on less than 20,000' of 16mm film, which would cost you around $10-$12K to purchase, develope and have transferred as a Best Light video daily to whatever standard def. video format you wanted. Edit that and you'll have a professional looking and sounding product. If you wish to make a film print later, the cheapest way is to have the film negative cut using the video edit list as a guide and then have an optical blowup to 35mm made. This will yield excellent results, far better than burning the video out to film.

[DanStewart]

70 minutes is a very long short. Write in another 10 and you've got a short long. :)

[Sam Wells]

"Manually" syncing a 50 - 70 minute film shot with any wild camera (let alone a governor controlled Bolex would not be my idea of a good time). Understatement.

 

-Sam

[Guest Erik]

hi there -

So, I"m post-synching my next FEATURE and here are a few things to think about in the pro category:

First, check out El Mariachi, which was 100% post synched on a 3/4 video cutting machine, old school, w/o the use of anything as precise as FCP or protools . It took him months to do it, and apparently spanish-speakers can detect some "rubber lips" on it. Looked fine to me, though.

Second, consider that post synching can do a couple very cool things FOR you:

1 - you'll never have to hold for airplanes, ask the neighbors to turn down the music or shut off the bandsaw or any of the other, show-stopping location sound standards.

2 - it should force you to tighten your dialogue; consider if you can show something that is currently being said. Consider whether one phrase could work better than a paragraph. This is writerly stuff, but it's also basic editing and good filmmaking.

3 - save you money in the way you already mention, and if you're starting low, spending money to save labor might not be an option. It isn't for me, personally.

good luck

Erik H.

[Sam Wells]

I have "checked out" El mariachi, and he cuts away from whoever is speaking again and again. I mean the whole cutting style of that movie (which I liked FWIW) seemed based on not wanting to post sync anything but short shots.

 

Plus, Columbia spent what, $100,000 on audio post for that film ?

(OK, you could DIY that with Protools, whatever, but that is tedious labor.. )

 

At the very least, shoot with a crystal controlled motor, you'll thank yourself.

 

-Sam