C-mount lens on arri/eclair/cpr16

Scott Bryant · April 10, 2007

Hi. I'm relatively new to mid-range film making. ( I know this is lower end to some of you but bear with me). I am looking into a Cinema Products cpr16 or an eclair acl but the lens issue is kind of troubling me. It seems like the only lens I can get i'll have to drop some serious cash ($500+, again serious to me) to fit the proper mounts on these cameras. I've seen some talk about c-mounts. Are these the same c-mounts that cameras like beaulieu r16's use? The tv type lenses? Can you use those lenses on an ACL or CPR16? What are some cheaper options for lens? are there any cheap options? I know image quality is big and you have to shell out some bucks for it but can anyone please help with some advice? Thanks

-Scott

Martin Yernazian · April 10, 2007

there Scott

the only thing I know is that the Eclair Acl has a c mount and you can either buy adaptors for 35mm lenses or you just put a nice Angeniuex zoom on it.

Oh one more thing... in this forum you have to you use your real name , you can't you a nickname, so I bet if you change you display name people will respond more

Bernhard Zitz · April 10, 2007

The tv type lenses? Can you use those lenses on an ACL or CPR16? What are some cheaper options for lens? are there any cheap options?

I'd avoid tv lenses, you can find angenieux and schneider primes in c-mount for cheap, but better to stop them down to get it sharp, they are very small and don't accept normal follow focus gear.

For Angenieux Zooms the 12-120mm has a bad reputation, the 9.5-57mm has a good reputation and goes rather cheap on ebay, the 15-150mm was build for 1inch video TV and covers Super16...

I have the 12-120mm, I always avoided it because I don't like zooms and people say it's bad, but I actually never shot some test-charts so I can't say for sure. For the others it's just rumors I hear...

You can find Schneider and Zeiss Primes at reasonable prices for Arri standart mount, they're built to work with follow focus units...

cheers, Bernhard

K Borowski · April 10, 2007

As someone who HAS shot tests with a 12-120, and little else at that :-( , it performs just fine. Shoot it at 5.6 or smaller and you'll be just fine. Even 4, I wouldn't worry too much. And if you're shooting night shots, it's too dark for you to tell the difference between a Schneider and a *Zuiko*. Keep in mind though I'm shooting with R16, not Super. I have a soft-spot in my heart for the optical sound track though. Just remember that all of those nice Zeiss lenses often have pieces of lady's stockings stuffed around the rear element, so I guarantee you'll be sharper than that with the 12-120 ;-) Anyway, it sounds like the lp/mm your lens can resolve are the least of your worries at this point. Buy say 100 feet of Plus-X negative, go outside maybe an hour or two before sundown and shoot as the light gets to the point where you'll be near wide open, or better use variable lighting indoors, keeping in mind that B&W is 1/3 of a stop less sensitive under 3200K lamps, and that you want to overexpose 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop further to "fill in the toe" of the curve.

Regards,

~Karl Borowski

P.S. I think I actually have one of those adaptable C-mount aadapters, and it is really cheap. Make sure you get a good one. Having your lens improperly adapted to the camera's film plane will hurt more than any spherical, chromatic, or barrel, or pincushion distortions ever will. EDIT: One more thing, there was a thread on this forum several months ago involving a 12-120 with either Vision 100T or Vision 200T and the results look as good as the footage I see from the 16mm TV shows (and no I don't mean "The Shield" ;-)

Edited April 10, 2007 by Karl Borowski

Scott Bryant · April 11, 2007

Thanks for all the help and advice about name changing and lenses as you can tell i'm new to the boards

Bernhard Zitz · April 11, 2007

As someone who HAS shot tests with a 12-120, and little else at that :-( , it performs just fine. Shoot it at 5.6 or smaller and you'll be just fine. Even 4, I wouldn't worry too much.

I'll try this soon... thanks Karl

Did you ever shot a nightscene with the 12-120mm that has small bright lights in the frame, like carlights or streetlamps? I got some funny halos around each light, it looks rather nice (somehow strange), I never had it at this point with another lens...

Edited April 11, 2007 by Bernhard Zitz

K Borowski · April 11, 2007

Well, that's an artifact that is more pronounced in older lenses. Movies from the '70s especially with candles, you always get ghosting, I think something to do with the lens coating. Modern coatings and glass really cut down on this. That's a rather extreme example of '60-'70s lens deficiency though. In fact, it's funny. Now lenses are TOO GOOD at this so we throw filters on newer glass to simulate the effect. I've never run into it myself, but I still havent' shot that much 16mm. Generally when I do shoot, the budget and lighting restrictions keep it the story indoors at night.

One other thing, using a matte box will prevent ghosting caused by lightbulbs, natural lightsources, or candles from showing up on the film when they're not in frame, which is almost always an undesirable effect, unless you're shooting a shot across the desert.