Music Question for Online Reels

Nicholas Jenkins · December 25, 2007

Might be another topic on here about this. I did a search and didn't find anything. I've used popular music for my online reel as well as some teasers for my short films (as I have seen many people do including my own cinematography professor). Since I'm theoretically not making money off of these things, I'm not too worried about it. But there is still that part of me that doesn't want to get in trouble. Any info on the legalities here?

Thanks,

Nick

David Mullen ASC · December 25, 2007

Technically, you need permission to use copyrighted music. Practically, I have yet to hear of a court case against someone using copyrighted music without permission in a DP demo reel.

Nicholas Jenkins · December 25, 2007

Technically, you need permission to use copyrighted music. Practically, I have yet to hear of a court case against someone using copyrighted music without permission in a DP demo reel.

Thanks David. That's what I thought as well. Especially at my meek little level, I doubt there would be an issue :)

Walter Graff · December 25, 2007

Technically it is illegal. You are using it for commercial purposes. The moment someone other than you listens to it, you have violated copyright. The fact that "everyone" does it doesn't make it legal. It's just not at a level that gets on the copyright systems. Hopefully, no one here will try to use the "fair use" mumbo jumbo. There is not a reel I've heard by anyone looking for work that would fall within Fair Use. I am a member of BMI and this question has been posed in our organization a number of times, and it always comes back the same way. But no one has really gone after infringements at this level except Disney which I believe had two cases they won over the use of their material on two wedding companies reels.

Nicholas Jenkins · December 25, 2007

Technically it is illegal. You are using it for commercial purposes. The moment someone other than you listens to it, you have violated copyright. The fact that "everyone" does it doesn't make it legal. It's just not at a level that gets on the copyright systems. Hopefully, no one here will try to use the "fair use" mumbo jumbo. There is not a reel I've heard by anyone looking for work that would fall within Fair Use. I am a member of BMI and this question has been posed in our organization a number of times, and it always comes back the same way. But no one has really gone after infringements at this level except Disney which I believe had two cases they won over the use of their material on two wedding companies reels.

Hmmmm. Good to know. I think probably the best way to go would be to find something from the Apple Loops archive and just make it work that way.

Kevin Zanit · December 25, 2007

If I am understanding the entire situation right, the only way any of this would ever fall under fair use in copyright law was if we were duplicating pages of books for non-commercial use. Far as I know, there is no fair use with other forms of media. Could be wrong due to recent court precedent, etc, its been a while since I learned about copyright law.

Walter Graff · December 25, 2007

If I am understanding the entire situation right, the only way any of this would ever fall under fair use in copyright law was if we were duplicating pages of books for non-commercial use. Far as I know, there is no fair use with other forms of media. Could be wrong due to recent court precedent, etc, its been a while since I learned about copyright law.

Educational use has a whole set of sub-rules regarding the use of copyrighted material. Are you making a reel for fun? Do you want ot educate people about your abilities? No, you are making a reel to make money. Hense you are using the music as an intrical part of attempting to make money. Hence you are violating copyright if you use it without permission. Would you like someone to use a shot of yours in their reel, becuase it fit what they needed? Would you mind if folks used your work to get them work in general? Doesn't matter. Using anyones work without permission is infringing. Yea it's done. After that it becomes ethics. As an artist, I try to give artists the same respect I would expect. Some disagree. Still doesn't make it legal.

Kevin Zanit · December 25, 2007

My above was intended as a bit of sarcasm, pointing out that my original understanding of fair use was that it only was intended to give libraries certain rights, from a legal standpoint I don't disagree with you at all.

Walter Graff · December 25, 2007

My above was intended as a bit of sarcasm, pointing out that my original understanding of fair use was that it only was intended to give libraries certain rights, from a legal standpoint I don't disagree with you at all.

Use those little icons for sarcasm and folks reading your words will understand more of your tone. :)

Without them, we are only getting the least part of the meaning of a conversation and that is the words by themselves. The internet offers a definite disadvantage to talking as two of the three elements that we use as humans to understand the meaning of what we say (body language, and voice inflection) are lost. Without them, call someone an ass could mean that person is in my opinion or using a :) while calling someone an ass means I'm joking. I get in trouble with this too, so know the feeling.

I do keep quite about this topic until it is brought up. It has so I am passionate about it so forgive me if my tone was serious in the last few posts. I'd love to see peoples faces if I borrowed just a 2 second shot of theirs for my reel. As a music author, that is exactly the feeling I'd get if I saw my music used to help someone's pictures tell a story.