Self Distribution

[GeorgeSelinsky]

It seems like more and more filmmakers are interested in self distribution (http://www.indiewire.com/biz/2008/07/ballast_steadie.html) . I'm strongly leaning in that direction myself. Has anyone here done it before? Also, are there good online communities dedicated to it? I haven't really found any myself as of now despite my intensive searching.

[Paul Bruening]

Hey George,

 

The consistent buzz word in the indie layers of the movie industry is "monetization." This is the unresolved problem. Everyone has their eye open about how to solve it. But, little has come up.

 

Indie capital has been poured into productions for the last few or more years, motivated by cheaper and better production tools. But, these productions can't find an viable venue for sales. It's not that those avenues don't or can't exist. It's a problem of how to get money out of the hands of consumers in exchange for product.

 

Currently, Hellywood and TV easily satisfy most of consumer demand. It will require a significant shift in market demand before indie productions will see the money they must have to justify the investment, effort, and especially, further commitment to creativity. I'm as unsure of how to change market perception and demand for indie product as everyone else is.

 

It does help that indie product is available. A change won't occur with out it. But, who (us) will have to keep spending hard-to-find money, and making these self-sacrificing creations until the market changes remains a good question. I'm finding that I may not have the strength to hang in there. Obviously, whoever is left standing, if and when the market changes, will reap the rewards.

 

You already know all this. I just had to say it. If you find a good distribution route, please, share it with us.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Hi Paul,

 

Of course it's going to be tough to buck the old distribution system. Anyone who goes against the system is not going to have an easy time doing it.

 

The way I see it, the greatest challenges of a self distributor are:

 

* Having leverage to get your product to a theater screen or video shelf.

* Having the leverage to get paid.

* The time investment required to actually distribute a film.

* The increased capital investment required to distribute.

* Having to shoulder the burden of the marketing/publicity campaign.

* Inexperience.

 

It's all scary when you look at it, until you think carefully about how crooked many distributors are and how many films get badly mishandled - not to mention the highly restrictive contract terms that first timers are offered.

 

The plus with self distribution is that you're going to get back a higher return on the dollar, and you get to control how your film is shown and marketed. You also get the fun of counting your own dough, not worrying about any skimming off the top and having to check books.

 

The biggest cash cow is a direct DVD sale from your website, but the big challenge is getting people to want to buy (everyone loves renting, esp. with Netflix) and getting them to your site.

 

AIVF (do they still exist?) put out a good binder-book called The Self Distribution Toolkit (I guess the xerox published binder format is sort of very true to the self distribution spirit, lol). It has xeroxed articles from a number of publications on self distribution, with a lot of mention of theatrical and some helpful things like budgets, etc. That's what got me started on the subject to begin with.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Some helpful links that others may also want to explore:

 

http://www.aivf.org/08/04/adventures-self-distribution

 

http://www.microfilmmaker.com/tipstrick/Is...8/selfdist.html

 

http://www.iofilm.co.uk/io/mit/001/film_di...on_20051115.php

 

http://www.newenglandfilm.com/news/archive...istribution.htm

 

http://www.indiewire.com/biz/2008/07/ballast_steadie.html

 

http://www.road-dog-productions.com/cgi-bi...re_driving.html

 

http://www.road-dog-productions.com/cgi-bi...w_thoughts.html

 

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Movie_Making_.../Film_Marketing

 

http://www.moviescopemag.com/index.php?opt...mp;Itemid=10032

Edited July 4, 2008 by GeorgeSelinsky

[GeorgeSelinsky]

This is a link to a forum I found:

 

http://www.self-distribution.com/

 

It's not very active.

 

Also, I suggest looking at this video:

 

http://arincrumley.com/adventures-in-self-...er-to-the-pixel

[Guest]

Geez I could literally write volumes on this topic.

 

Last week I personally sold the Canadian TV rights to my movie for a very sizeable licensing fee. Air date is Sept 1st. On August 19th my movie comes out across Canada in the number two video chain, also a deal done by me directly.

 

Then today I received the short form contract from a major player in the US for the US rights, cash plus back end royalty of 70%.

 

The US deal came about largely because of the sales I made here in Canada, that got them interested.

 

It's a damn good thing I did do the Canadian deals my self, other wise I would have only made a fraction of the money. This way there is no one between me and the money, that's the way you want it.

 

Yes I did more leg work, but why should producers be afraid to sell their own work? The main mistake filmmakers make is that they refuse to get involved in all of this, they just want to "create" and have some one else do all the money stuff for them. Big, big, mistake.

 

Once the first window TV run is done here I'll move to a second window sale and collect another licensing fee. 20 years from now I can still be collecting revenue from my movie because I own it 100%.

 

You've got to have some guts and determination to make cold calls and take rejection, in the end it can be worth it.

 

In Sept I'll be posting the actual links showing where my film ended up and how it's available via mainstream distribution for the public to access.

 

Plus...I did a theatrical release on my movie in Canada, and that was a huge plus. I received tons of free publicity and avoided the "direct to video" tag.

 

Like I said, I can go on and on and on......

 

R,

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Geez I could literally write volumes on this topic.

 

Sounds like you have a lot to offer here, Richard! Congradulations!!

 

I think nowadays theatrical self distribution is probably the surest way to get into a movie theater. I'm sure that probably helped a lot with your TV sales didn't it?

 

Btw, did you approach the stations directly or through an agent/rep?

[Guest]

Sounds like you have a lot to offer here, Richard! Congradulations!!

 

I think nowadays theatrical self distribution is probably the surest way to get into a movie theater. I'm sure that probably helped a lot with your TV sales didn't it?

 

Btw, did you approach the stations directly or through an agent/rep?

 

TV and DVD sales are largely driven by the theatrical release. This holds true for big budget Hollywood stuff as well of course. People may not see the movie in the theater, but, they get exposed to the advertising and this pushes them to the DVD rental and TV viewing at a later date.

 

Google "dark reprieve" and you'll see how many pages where generated just because it was in the theaters.

 

As I generated press for my movie I kept many copies of all the print media, not copies, originals. I also printed off all the web pages where my movie showed up, on high gloss paper with a hi-res colour printer, and I recorded all of the TV spots that I generated. Most impressive was that my movie was featured on Entertainment Tonight. I put the TV coverage onto a DVD which was submitted to buyers along with the movie. Using all of the press I created an extensive portfolio for the movie that showed how much media attention it received.

 

I gave all of this to the buyers, I wasn't going to rely on them seeing any of this press on their own, I made it my responsibility to show them. This type of presentation goes along way toward impressing a buyer vs just sending in a DVD.

 

Do you think any sales agent would have done this much work for my movie? Not in a thousand years!

 

Booking the theaters and ensuring that there was ad support was a lot of work, but also a lot of fun. I did a Q&A with the audience in two cities and it went really well, people where complimentary and asked a lot of questions.

 

The other area I went nuts on was my packaging. I went to a top design firm in Hollywood that does nothing but movie art, they created a great campaign that I could use as movie posters and the DVD cover. People judge movies by their artwork, that's a sad reality, and too many indie producers refuse to spend money in this area and that's a big mistake.

 

I went direct to the buyer at the cable network with my package, and was able to make a deal no problem. One thing you discover is that salesmanship plays a big part in selling a movie, my belief was that no one would be more passionate about my movie than me.

 

Sales reps sell dozens and even hundreds of titles, they don't really care about an individual title, just that they sell "some thing." The best advocate for any small movie is usually the creator himself.

 

Of course in the US things will be quite different, an established mainstream distributor will handle it. But I was the one who proved that buyers would buy my product if they where given the chance.

 

R,

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Congratulations Richard, I just googled your film! It looks like you really busted your butt and were rewarded for it. That's a nasty looking wolfie...

 

So I imagine you had a 35mm print made and you went to theaters, cut deals with them or fourwalled?

[Guest]

Congratulations Richard, I just googled your film! It looks like you really busted your butt and were rewarded for it. That's a nasty looking wolfie...

 

So I imagine you had a 35mm print made and you went to theaters, cut deals with them or fourwalled?

 

No 35mm prints, even though I shot on 35. No four walling, standard 50/50 split with the theater owners. I showed them my posters and trailer, and away we went.

 

I took it to theaters that could project digitally so there was no need for a 35mm print. In Toronto for example it was projected in a 400 seat theater via the HDSR in 4:2:2 and a top end digital projector. Looked amazing. In the other theaters we used the DVD and pro-sumer projectors that the theaters already had.

 

I thought coming off the DVD it would look like crap, boy was I wrong! The quality was just brilliant I was blown away.

 

The cost for going to 35mm from my HDSR 4:4:4 was going to be about 60K, and on a small theatrical run there would be no way to even make a part of that back. So in this case digital projection was the answer.

 

If I was doing a 500 screen release that would have been different.

 

But hey my movie was up on the marquees of theaters and people actually came and paid money to see it, I posted pics in the "on screen" forum.

 

For my next movie I plan the same approach only I hope to have a lot more theaters of course ;)

 

Basic rule, theatrically release your movie even if you lose money. Just build this loss into your production budget and consider it part of your marketing funds. You can generate press with your movie in the theaters, press that would cost a fortune if you tried to buy it. I had a full page write up in one paper, and I was on the front page of another, both dailies. Guess how much a full page ad costs in a newspaper?

 

Also, I got my movie out there and sold totally skipping the film fests. I have discovered that film fests are a total waste of time and money, plus they just slow down your marketing machine. Unless you got into Sundance, forget about it, just sell your movie you don't need them.

 

The other thing I skipped was the critics. There is a 99% chance they'll rip your movie to shreds so why bother? Read movie reviews, they are hugely negative. Plus a genre film like mine would have taken an extra level of thrashing as critics hate genre movies.

 

Do what Lions Gate has started to do, releasing movies to theaters without letting the critics see it first. Take your movie direct to the buyers and the public and let them decide.

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Hey Richard,

 

May I ask what your budget was for Dark Reprieve? Also, I noticed from your trailer that all of your actresses seem to be blessed at least to the fourth letter of the alphabet if you get my drift. Did you have any awkward nude scenes? How does that work dealing with such things as a Director (never asked for that.)

 

Thanks Richard,

Matthew

[Guest]

Hey Richard,

 

May I ask what your budget was for Dark Reprieve? Also, I noticed from your trailer that all of your actresses seem to be blessed at least to the fourth letter of the alphabet if you get my drift. Did you have any awkward nude scenes? How does that work dealing with such things as a Director (never asked for that.)

 

Thanks Richard,

Matthew

 

No sorry I can never reveal the budget for Dark Reprieve. Not even my wife knows :D

 

Most industry people in LA put the budget at 1-1.2 million after seeing it, so I just run with that.

 

There is no nudity in the film or sexual content. I stripped the one blond girl down to her underwear but she is separated from her husband by a thick sheet of glass.

 

The model wears a revealing dress, and she does a bubble bath shot, that's about it. I wish to thank Deal Or No Deal for providing the model's wardrobe, that is a $10, 000.00 dress if you can believe it, & custom made for her by the show.

 

I shot the model in my bathtub at mid-night whilst my wife slept in the next room.

 

I let the blond model you see in the trailer spin around choose her own under garments. She arrived with the thong bottoms, I never told her to pick those. But it was the last day of shooting and there was no time to make a change. I guess when you've got a body like hers you don't mind showing it off? Just a few of the many war stories that a indie movie generates I have a hundred more B)

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

No sorry I can never reveal the budget for Dark Reprieve. Not even my wife knows :D

 

I'm sorry I asked. I didn't realize that disclosing a budget was a big deal. Maybe you are trying to convince people it's larger than what it was? Anyhow, i guess you have your own reasons...as foolish as it may be. :lol:

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I'm sorry I asked. I didn't realize that disclosing a budget was a big deal. Maybe you are trying to convince people it's larger than what it was? Anyhow, i guess you have your own reasons...as foolish as it may be. :lol:

 

The budget of any indie film production is a well guarded secret. It's sort of like asking an actress how old she is. I understand Richard and especially since we're talking a public forum here, he needs to be careful what he reveals publicly because there are sometimes business consequences to such things.

 

What I find interesting is that Richard bypassed the critics and went straight for the release. My big question though, how do you get press to cover you and get excited about you if you don't invite the critics for a screening?

 

Another question for Richard, when you screened in Toronto did you have to rent the HD deck? What kind of an HD deck did you get (HD digibeta, or?). How did it work out with setting it all up? Do you think there'd be a big difference if you went from a Bluray disk vis a vi a proper HD deck?

 

I'm thinking of going this route myself right now. It's heck of a lot cheaper than going to a print, esp. since I noticed you had enough effects there (like that evil wolfie!!)

 

Thanks for all the advice, this is great info and to be honest there's so little good self distribution info out there!

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Oh and one more P.S., did you buy E&O insurance? You must have had to for your TV deal, right? How about theatrical?

[Matthew W. Phillips]

The budget of any indie film production is a well guarded secret. It's sort of like asking an actress how old she is. I understand Richard and especially since we're talking a public forum here, he needs to be careful what he reveals publicly because there are sometimes business consequences to such things.

 

Um, maybe you should tell me what these consequences are? Could it be that there is deception going on and that's the "danger" of disclosing? Please elaborate since you opened the door.

[Guest]

The budget of any indie film production is a well guarded secret. It's sort of like asking an actress how old she is. I understand Richard and especially since we're talking a public forum here, he needs to be careful what he reveals publicly because there are sometimes business consequences to such things.

 

Yes that is right. Say for example you broadcast that you made your indie movie for $25,000.00. Can you really expect to be paid a lot for it? Budgets are best kept under wraps, unless you spend 150 million of course.

What I find interesting is that Richard bypassed the critics and went straight for the release. My big question though, how do you get press to cover you and get excited about you if you don't invite the critics for a screening?

 

He he, well that's another story normally one hires a publicist for this. In my case I worked for the news media for many years so I know exactly how the inside of a news room works. All newspapers have a press release e-mail, look it up on their sites. Then send in a killer e-mail explaining that your low budget movie will screen at XYZ local theater and you'd like to tell a reporter all about it. I did this with our cities local daily and I ended up on the front page of the Saturday edition!! I had no idea that would happen.

 

In other cities I asked the theater owners who I should talk to and they where always happy to help out. They know the entertainment reporters at all of the local papers.

 

For print have a great disc full of behind the scenes stills that they can use, and also frame grabs from the movie. If you have this they are much more likely to run your story.

 

For TV I had contacts on the inside at Entertainment Tonight, and the interview I did on set with Toronto's City Pulse News was also arranged by an inside contact of mine. Ok so I called in favours from people I knew so sue me! These interviews are on the movie website under "press coverage" by the way.

 

Another question for Richard, when you screened in Toronto did you have to rent the HD deck? What kind of an HD deck did you get (HD digibeta, or?). How did it work out with setting it all up? Do you think there'd be a big difference if you went from a Bluray disk vis a vi a proper HD deck?

 

No the theater had their own HDSR deck, I just gave them the tape and they took care of it. There was nothing for me to do, their staff did it all.

I'm thinking of going this route myself right now. It's heck of a lot cheaper than going to a print, esp. since I noticed you had enough effects there (like that evil wolfie!!)

 

Yes just skip the print it's more trouble than it's worth unless you are going big.

 

Thanks for all the advice, this is great info and to be honest there's so little good self distribution info out there!

 

 

Oh and one more P.S., did you buy E&O insurance? You must have had to for your TV deal, right? How about theatrical?

 

Yes there is a stripped down E&O policy for the film, pretty standard. There wasn't one for the theatrical release though, it's not required by law or any thing. My film was all interiors, all original music, and an original script. So really there was nothing in there to target.

[Guest]

Um, maybe you should tell me what these consequences are? Could it be that there is deception going on and that's the "danger" of disclosing? Please elaborate since you opened the door.

 

There is no deception, why is it any ones business how much money you spent?

 

If you made your movie for $10,000.00, broadcasting that fact is not going to help you make sales at all. If your 10K movie looks like 250K, well then just let people believe what they want to believe about the budget. You're under no obligation of any kind to reveal your exact budget.

 

How is it different from selling any thing? If you're flipping houses are you obliged to tell the buyer exactly what you bought the house for so that the new buyer knows your profit margin to the penny?

 

One other thing, how do you budget for things you didn't pay for? I didn't have to pay for a director, DOP, or editor, I did that all myself. What is that worth? On a Hollywood movie all of those big ticket items would be expensed and paid for. I also found all the locations, built props, ordered costumes, hired the cast and crew, the list goes on....how do I expense all of that?

 

I did so many jobs I even used my middle names for my editors credit other wise the credits would go on and on with just my name.

 

I don't reveal budgets on any thing I do, commercials, stock footage, features, nothing. It's my business no one else need know.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

There is no deception, why is it any ones business how much money you spent?

 

It's nobody's business but it is educational and can be inspirational to some. Reason: if a nice looking movie can be made on the cheap, it gives others hope that they don't need truckloads of cash. I honestly still don't see the big deal of disclosing, but that's just me. As far as it affecting deals, I think honestly it comes down to distributors are going to pay what they are going to pay. Granted they might INITIALLY offer you less if they know it was made for less but honestly, if it has merit to them, they will pay what they feel it's worth...it's called negotiation. Robert Rodriguez always disclosed what he spent for El Mariachi but it didn't change the outcome. He made for it what he made for it. Don't assume I had negative intentions for asking. It's not much different then a DP asking how you did a shot. Would you respond by "it's not really a good idea for me to tell you how I shot that scene...it's a well guarded secret." Chances are, no matter how savvy you think you are, you surely spent more than what RR spent for El Mariachi.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Rodriguez had an unusual situation, his budget was a press item. These days it's super old hat, nobody cares how little you spent. It's best to keep that kind of information under wraps because it really does more damage than good. The only people who should know are the investors, and in Richard's case here they're probably pretty happy because it seems like he did a good job at making their money back for them.

 

You can do a 35mm feature for under 100K, it's been done. At a certain point it comes down to the inevitable expenses: stock, processing, and transfer. Those things (at least the latter two) are pretty hard to get free. Outside of that it's really your ingenuity and who you know. Like Richard I wore many hats with my film, it wasn't an easy job but it was certainly economical. I had a resourceful exec who got some really nice locations and extras for free. The main cost we had was short ends stock and processing/transfer, that was the bulk of our budget. I shot all MOS and dubbed it all later, so I didn't have to pay a soundman and I used an MOS camera (that's the LAST time I'm doing that!).

 

Another few questions for Richard, treasure trove of experience he is! How many people did you have helping you with the theatrical self distribution? Any gimmicks that you used to help get butts in seats, outside of the press release? How did you like the quality of the HDSR projection (I imagine you got a good transfer - where?), and how did that compare to your 35mm experiences? Oh and um, were you nervous when it all started? :unsure: Thanks!

Edited July 5, 2008 by GeorgeSelinsky

[Guest]

The only people who should know are the investors, and in Richard's case here they're probably pretty happy because it seems like he did a good job at making their money back for them.

 

Another few questions for Richard, treasure trove of experience he is! How many people did you have helping you with the theatrical self distribution? Any gimmicks that you used to help get butts in seats, outside of the press release? How did you like the quality of the HDSR projection (I imagine you got a good transfer - where?), and how did that compare to your 35mm experiences? Oh and um, were you nervous when it all started? :unsure: Thanks!

 

Oh one important point on my movie the only investor is me :D I used my personal funds to pay for every thing, 100%. Not a penny came from outside sources, most definitely not TeleFilm Canada. Which is unheard of this country.

 

As to your other questions:

 

I did all of the theatrical distribution work my self, no one else helped. I booked the theaters, took care of the press, sent out posters, you name it I did it. What's that old saying, "if you want some thing done right.............."

 

As for gimmicks...I released an entire pack of timber wolves in downtown Toronto during rush hour. Oh it was great you should have seen the people running and screaming! Plus we didn't feed them for three weeks prior.

 

The HDSR projection was gorgeous and it was a very long throw. Transfer and colour correction was done at Deluxe Toronto. All on a super discounted rate. I was after all finishing with the exact same techniques, gear, and staff, that do mega budget Hollywood movies.

 

Nervous when the film started for the audience you mean? Yes some what, mainly because I know all the weak spots of my film. I can't watch with any objectivity. Although 99.99% of the errors fly right past the typical viewer, and I'm sure this is true of most features.

 

No one walked out, that was the main thing :D

 

R,

[Guest]

Chances are, no matter how savvy you think you are, you surely spent more than what RR spent for El Mariachi.

 

Yes, but I don't see how that has any relevance?

 

R,

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I did all of the theatrical distribution work my self, no one else helped. I booked the theaters, took care of the press, sent out posters, you name it I did it. What's that old saying, "if you want some thing done right.............."

 

Wow, impressive. By the way I'm very appreciative that you're taking the time to share this information, Richard. It's going to be a help not just to me but to anyone else out there who wants to self distribute. The info out there is around, but still a bit tough to come about.

 

The whole theatrical deal must have taken up a lot of your time, especially the wolves promo :lol:

 

I noticed btw that you're not selling DVD's off your site. You want a video distributor to handle that for you? Have you ever thought of the high margins you'd get off selling direct, or you just don't want to bother with it?

 

Thanks again Richard...

[Guest]

I noticed btw that you're not selling DVD's off your site. You want a video distributor to handle that for you? Have you ever thought of the high margins you'd get off selling direct, or you just don't want to bother with it?

 

Thanks again Richard...

 

Yes exactly, I can't be bothered with it. I would have used that as a last hail mary pass if nothing else had worked out.

 

The US will now be covered by a mainstream distributor, and I have video rental in Canada already set up. At this stage I have moved onto my next film, there is little more for me to do on the marketing of my movie.

 

I don't want to get involved with taking orders and shipping stuff out.

 

I can tell you this, the film's web site has been flooded with e-mail from people all over the globe asking where they can buy the DVD. People see the trailer on YouTube for instance then Google my site, as an example.

 

I really can't deal with it, then I would need the various region DVDs etc, it's a lot of stuff to manage. If I had 10 titles, then it might be worth it.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Yes, but I don't see how that has any relevance?

 

R,

 

The relevance is that he spent less but got more. Therefore, your concern for disclosing budget is unfounded. Nonetheless, it's your right not to disclose it.