Arriflex D-20

Jayson Crothers · January 5, 2004

Does anyone know anything else about this camera outside of the PR releases and articles I've been finding. I don't suppose anyone has seen it yet?

Mitch Gross · January 6, 2004

It's still an experimental research device. Look for more as we get closer to NAB in April.

Kevin_A · March 17, 2004

being an avid subscriber to American Cinematographer for 3 years now i can shed a little light on the d-20. since sony and panavision are holding hands and crossing their fingers hoping that HD will REPLACE film, the ultra-wise gremans decided not to conform to this shallow and idealistic viewpoint and create a totally new camera acquisition system. here are some technical specs of the proto-type:

1 cmos chip a bit larger than a 35mm frame

since it is cmos and not ccd it is capable of fps of 1-200 (the original prototype went to 72fps)

(6million pixels)

32 (12 bit ) a/d converters working parallel to upload data @ 10Gbit/sec

(hd is 1.5 Gbit per sec)

same dof and field of view as 35mm

uses any lens mount for high end optics and has thru-the-lens viewing

interestingly enough, you have to "develop" the raw data to see it wysiwyg, combining all the "layers" of data per frame. otherwise you can preview it in b&w.

also, ARRI is very smart in the development of such an ambitious endeavour, cunsulting all the top cinematographers and their respective organizations, I.E. the ASC, BSC, etc...this is because unlike corporations like sony, jvc, etc (i have nothing against them) this is being developed specifically as a tool for the DP, not JUST an experiment in technology.

Mike Brennan · March 20, 2004

being an avid subscriber to American Cinematographer for 3 years now

Err you don't believe everything you read do you?

1 cmos chip a bit larger than a 35mm frame

since it is cmos and not ccd it is capable of fps of 1-200 (the original prototype went to 72fps)

(6million pixels)

There are 1K CCD digital slo mo cameras around that do 1000 fps.

They wouldn't tell you that in American Cinematographer... until Arri launched a badged version of such a sytem:)

"32 (12 bit ) a/d converters working parallel to upload data @ 10Gbit/sec

(hd is 1.5 Gbit per sec)

same dof and field of view as 35mm"

Gaffers will love double the quantity of light needed with this camera to get same depth of field as HD 2/3 inch. Ohh Arri make lights too!Pity we can't have our cake and eat it too and have a choice of size of imageRr

"uses any lens mount for high end optics and has thru-the-lens viewing"

Jury is out that existing film lenses will be good enough for aquiring images that will be digitally projected at 2k/4k

interestingly enough, you have to "develop" the raw data to see it wysiwyg, combining all the "layers" of data per frame. otherwise you can preview it in b&w.

Sounds like a step backwards from quality monitoring from existing HD

"also, ARRI is very smart in the development of such an ambitious endeavour, cunsulting all the top cinematographers and their respective organizations, I.E. the ASC, BSC, etc...this is because"

Savvy is the word as they are protecting their existing customer base. "unlike corporations like sony, jvc, etc (i have nothing against them) this is being developed specifically as a tool for the DP, not JUST an experiment in technology."

You give Sony ect too much credit! The word develop should be replaced with cobble together!

But a new set of bias, vested interest issues ect will become apparent with cameras developed by film companies with a significant client base currently using film.

Launch date will be strung out. Initally there will be compromises in design to conform with existing working practices. Imager and processing design will not highlight any issues with using existing film lenses for instance. (There may not be)

In otherwords it could be a lot better. The digital camera of the next decade will be cobbled together from film bits and pieces and based on a melting pot of working practices designed to keep the current crafts and trades in employment.

Probably a decade away from a truely ground up camera lens system. In a capitalist world there are not many developments that go as far and fast as they could.

Mike Brennan

Mitch Gross · March 20, 2004

1 cmos chip a bit larger than a 35mm frame
since it is cmos and not ccd it is capable of fps of 1-200 (the original prototype went to 72fps)

(6million pixels)

There are 1K CCD digital slo mo cameras around that do 1000 fps.

They wouldn't tell you that in American Cinematographer... until Arri launched a badged version of such a sytem:)

"32 (12 bit ) a/d converters working parallel to upload data @ 10Gbit/sec

(hd is 1.5 Gbit per sec)

same dof and field of view as 35mm"

Gaffers will love double the quantity of light needed with this camera to get same depth of field as HD 2/3 inch. Ohh Arri make lights too!Pity we can't have our cake and eat it too and have a choice of size of imageRr

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINTS ABOUT HD IS THE LACK OF CONTROL FOR DEPTH OF FIELD. JUST ABOUT EVERYONE IS SCREAMING FOR LARGER SENSORS TO GET SHALLOWER DEPTH OF FIELD.

"uses any lens mount for high end optics and has thru-the-lens viewing"

Jury is out that existing film lenses will be good enough for aquiring images that will be digitally projected at 2k/4k

THAT'S A LOAD OF BUNK. I'VE USED LATEST-GENERATION 35MM LENSES PLENTY, PUTTING THEM UP ON LENS PROJECTORS AND PROJECTING NEGATIVE TESTS TO REALLY SEE HOW THEY OPTICALLY PERFORM. THEY CAN CERTAINLY KEEP UP WITH THIS CAMERA'S RESOLUTION. THEY CAN ALSO KEEP UP WITH THE HIGHER RESOLUTION OF THE DALSA ORIGIN CAMERA.

interestingly enough, you have to "develop" the raw data to see it wysiwyg, combining all the "layers" of data per frame. otherwise you can preview it in b&w.

YES, RAW DATA. UNCOMPRESSED AND UNADULTERATED SO THAT YOU HAVE ALL THE ROOM TO MANIPULATE IT IN POST. THE BEST WAY TO GET THE INFO. SOON ENOUGH THERE WILL BE SOME FORM OF PORTABLE "DIRECTOR'S FRIEND"-LIKE DEVICE TO GIVE AN ONSET COLOR-CORRECTION PREVIEW. THIS IS JUST LIKE THE VIPER AND THE KINETTA. DIFFERENCE IS THOSE COMPANIES HAVE ALREADY DEVELOPED THE SECOND DEVICE BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING TO MARKET WHILE ARRI IS OPENING STILL IN THE TEST BED PHASE.

Sounds like a step backwards from quality monitoring from existing HD

NOT IF YOU WANT 4:4:4 IT ISN'T.

"also, ARRI is very smart in the development of such an ambitious endeavour, cunsulting all the top cinematographers and their respective organizations, I.E. the ASC, BSC, etc...this is because"

Savvy is the word as they are protecting their existing customer base. "unlike corporations like sony, jvc, etc (i have nothing against them) this is being developed specifically as a tool for the DP, not JUST an experiment in technology."

You give Sony ect too much credit! The word develop should be replaced with cobble together!

But a new set of bias, vested interest issues ect will become apparent with cameras developed by film companies with a significant client base currently using film.

Launch date will be strung out. Initally there will be compromises in design to conform with existing working practices. Imager and processing design will not highlight any issues with using existing film lenses for instance. (There may not be)

In otherwords it could be a lot better. The digital camera of the next decade will be cobbled together from film bits and pieces and based on a melting pot of working practices designed to keep the current crafts and trades in employment.

Probably a decade away from a truely ground up camera lens system. In a capitalist world there are not many developments that go as far and fast as they could.

ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THEY COMPLETELY SHUNNED AND IGNORED THE WORKING PROFESSIONALS AND SIMPLY MADE THEIR OWN DESIGN BASED SOLEY ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT? IGNORE MILLIONS OF MAN-HOUR EXPERIENCES AND EVOLUTIONARY DESIGN ELEMENTS BASED ON FUNCTIONAL PRACTICES IN THE HOPE OF A REVOLUTIONARY CHANCE DISCOVERY? THAT SIMPLY SOUNDS IGNORANT TO ME. THE KINETTA DESIGN IS PRETTY REVOLUTIONARY BUT HE STILL TOOK PROFESSIONALS' INPUT AND THIS HELPED HIM BETTER THE DESIGN, ADDING GREAT FUNCTIONALITY TO THE PRODUCT. ARRI IS SIMPLY ASKING PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT. THAT'S A BAD THING? IT REMINDS ME OF THE INDIE FILMMAKERS WHO APPROACH ME WITH AN "I'VE GOT A NEW WAY OF MAKING MOVIES" ATTITUDE. ON RARE OCCASSIONS THEY HAVE A GOOD IDEA, BUT GENERALLY THEY ARE FALLING INTO THE MISTAKES THAT OTHERS HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED AND LEARNED FROM. WHY NOT ASK THE ADVICE OF THE EXPERIENCED? THIS IS NOT LIKE THE OLD HAND TYPESETTERS LOOKING TO KEEP NEWSPAPER PRINTING FROM AUTOMATING. tHIS IS STILL THE SAME PEOPLE WHO NEED TO USE THE EQUIPMENT SIMPLY MAKING IT WORK BETTER FOR THEIR NEEDS.

My response is within your quote in BOLD.

May 17, 2004

Is the camera out already? How much does it cost?

Luke Prendergast · May 17, 2004

What Mitch said

May 18, 2004

Mitch Gross wrote his thing before NAB. I wonder if anyone has any later news.

Mitch Gross · May 18, 2004

These things take time. Arri is developing this camera purely as a test bed for technology. It is NOT a production model or even anything CLOSE to a production model. Arri is actually the most frank and honest company developing such equipment in that they are extremely forthcoming about what the technology can and cannot do. Perhaps in a year or two there will be a new camera based upon the lessons learned from this test machine. But there is currently no plans for Arri to begin making these cameras for anyone's use other than the company's own. That is not the way these things work.

May 18, 2004

That is the German mentality and it works. Look at the success of Merceds and BMW. Then look at JVC releasing HD-10 with all the flaws; we are telking here about two different corporate mentalities, although overall the Germans and the Japanese have a lot in common.

Isn't the Dalsa quite similar to the Arri? They are about to start renting their system.