IBBARU has been banned

[Guest close my account]

Forum members should think of this environment less like the room they're sitting in as they type and more like a room in Tim's house. He's kind enough to let us gather and have discussions while he's at home AND while he's away at work. We should respect the rules of his house.

I hadn't thought of it that way. I see "cinematography.com" and site-wide advertising and myriad topics, and well that strikes me as a public forum, like a coffee house. Now while I know that the proprietor may own the coffee house, I don't think one can say that he owns what is said in his coffee house. Certainly there are lines that should not be crossed, but when administrator edits happen I think they should be reflected in the thread.

[Guest close my account]

...You realize, Stevie, that you are creating a paradox every time you use your user name AND violating forum rules at the same time, right?

Karl, I tend to fly-off-the-handle when I perceive an injustice. It's a fault. I admit that. I should be more patient. After considering your replys and those of the other members, it is apparent that I have misjudged Tim Tyler. While I still don't agree with the manner in which he was manipulating the thread, I don't think that my taking on an accusatory tone was the correct way to open this thread.

 

When I decided that I was done here and I changed my user-name, I didn't get it right on the first try, so I actually changed it twice. As one is only permitted to make two name changes in a 180 day period, I don't have the possibility of changing it back now. And Tim has maybe just been too busy in getting around to closing me down, or maybe he is just incredibly patient as you all say.

[Will Earl]

I haven't much frequented other such sites, so I will take your word for it. I'm just very disappointed.

 

Sorry for the late reply... I think if you compare this forum to say Reduser - which is rather bias towards one particular brand, CML - which is a good source of info, but also fairly strict in it's posting guidelines and then of course the DV-focused forums which don't tend to feature any discussion on film or high-end digital. You'll find that this forum is open to people of all skill levels/experience/knowledge, using a broad range of media (film, video, data) and from all different parts of the production process (pre, prod, post).

 

And don't worry Karl, my disagree-with-you comment was purely in jest - unfortunately there is no "punch-on-the-shoulder" emoticon so I had to make do with the smiley face.

[Tim Tyler]

I suspended Rakoczy's account after reading his post which ended in "Adios cinematography.com.... adios!"

 

99% Of the posts I've removed or edited over the years have been at the direct request of the user who posted or someone who was sincerely offended by the post. The forum guidelines serve as clear rules describing what is considered acceptable and what is not. Some people don't like rules, and that's fine, but that's not always tolerated here.

 

Many people expect Cinematography.com to be a forum with minimal chit-chat and off topic ranting, and many users here including myself do what they can to keep it that way. If members are enjoying a high-level technical discussion and another member jumps in and starts comparing professional cameras to chocolate bars, well, that might not be tolerated.

 

In retrospect I wish I had simply modified those IBBARU posts with the usual "edited by moderator" text, but I was in a hurry and a bit angry at the post content.

 

In my and others' opinions, this forum truly is one of the least controlled you'll find. I almost always rely on notifications from users when a topic gets messy or out of control and needs attention.

 

The only members who have ever been banned here are spam accounts and self-proclaimed racists.

[Paul Bruening]

...I tend to fly-off-the-handle when I perceive an injustice. It's a fault. I admit that. I should be more patient. After considering your replys and those of the other members, it is apparent that I have misjudged Tim Tyler. While I still don't agree with the manner in which he was manipulating the thread, I don't think that my taking on an accusatory tone was the correct way to open this thread.

 

I don't recall ever seeing this sort of thing happening in a thread. I compliment you, Stevie, on the courage in self-recognition, adjustment, and reconciliation that you have demonstrated.

[Chad Stockfleth]

I've always seen this site as a valuable resource should you have a technical question because it is host to so many "real-life working professionals". It's also been a source of creative inspiration and levity (see the craigslist topic).

 

That said, I don't come here to read about politics or religious beliefs. There is enough of that in the rest of the world.

 

It's funny to me how polarizing the digital vs. analog debates can be. I use a variety of mediums, each with their own strengths and limitations. I guess I just don't feel an emotional attachment to a specific camera. It's when these debates go from factual to opinion that things get hairy, but facts are what I seek here.

 

You can't argue that broccoli tastes better than asparagus anymore than you can argue that the 5D mkii is better than an SR3. Broccoli may have more vitamin C and asparagus may make your pee smell, but which tastes better is just that, a matter of taste. Different strokes for different folks.

[Brian Dzyak]

That said, I don't come here to read about politics or religious beliefs. There is enough of that in the rest of the world.

 

 

True, sort of. While the topic of Cinematography, specifically, can and does deal mostly with purely technical issues, it is impossible to separate the CAREER elements from what goes on in the outside world. Like it or not, politics and economics have everything to do with our industry and that in turn directly impacts whether someone gets to use those technical elements or just talk about them at home.

 

So, whether you agree with the past thirty years of economic policy or not (which for better or worse has been based on Milton Friedman's unfettered Free Market theory which has led to unfettered Globalization), it is undeniable that this movement has and does impact real work and life for many who have built lives around their careers in the motion-picture and television industries. Ignoring those bigger issues, particularly when answering questions for up-and-comers, would be irresponsible. Everyone needs to know what the realities of working (or not working) in this industry are which is why the discussion of the larger political and economic issues is vital and extremely relevant. There are those who don't want those issues discussed here, primarily because they don't want anything to change, but I feel that such a choice is again, irresponsible, as there is much more to Cinematography than just talking about tools and techniques.

 

It's Tim's living room and his choice whether or not to allow such discussion to take place and support his right to make that choice. If anyone wishes to have an arena to question/discuss those bigger "career" issues, there is real estate available for any and all thoughts in the forums at http://www.realfilmcareer.com. :)

[Gregory Irwin]

True, sort of. While the topic of Cinematography, specifically, can and does deal mostly with purely technical issues, it is impossible to separate the CAREER elements from what goes on in the outside world. Like it or not, politics and economics have everything to do with our industry and that in turn directly impacts whether someone gets to use those technical elements or just talk about them at home.

 

Brian has an excellent point. Politico-economics do have an impact on our business and our very livelihood. Perhaps a dedicated forum in the "Off Topic" section of this site would be a place to sequester these discussions with all points of view being expressed and most importantly, respected. After all, the overall goal is to have a career in the camera business and provide for our families. Whether the issues are related to government or union policy, we are all impacted by their decisions, no matter where we live. I agree with Brian that these concerns do affect us and a healthy discussion could be beneficial and educational. Our industry by nature is very liberal but there are other valid view points and they would need to be respected among the members of this site if this idea is to work.

 

Best,

Greg

[Hal Smith]

As anyone who lurks CML can testify, Tim is a warm fuzzy teddy bear in comparison to Geoff Boyle and his listmum's enforcing of "The Rules" over there.

 

Post a technical question about something Kodak makes in "cml-pro" and Geoff comes sweeping down with something like "NOT HERE, take it to cml-film". Don't even THINK of posting a question on a 7D anywhere except cml-hd-prosumer even if you're shooting background plates for a $250 million dollar feature with that 7D.

[Tim Tyler]

Perhaps a dedicated forum in the "Off Topic" section...

 

As much as I would like to accommodate that request, I think ultimately it would get very messy.

 

Political discussions always end poorly because both sides will argue until the death and no one dies in a forum argument. The arguments just get uglier and more caustic until people get angry and threatening. People will say things online that they would never say to someone in person.

 

Perhaps we should create a way to label certain such topics so that each user is allowed to post one single post to the thread without the opportunity to reply to subsequent posts in that thread. That way everybody gets to broadcast their position and thoughts whilst preventing bickering.

[Brian Dzyak]

As much as I would like to accommodate that request, I think ultimately it would get very messy.

 

Political discussions always end poorly because both sides will argue until the death and no one dies in a forum argument. The arguments just get uglier and more caustic until people get angry and threatening. People will say things online that they would never say to someone in person.

 

Perhaps we should create a way to label certain such topics so that each user is allowed to post one single post to the thread without the opportunity to reply to subsequent posts in that thread. That way everybody gets to broadcast their position and thoughts whilst preventing bickering.

 

I've seen "topic areas" in other forum structures like this where users are allowed to post only once per day in that particular thread. This allows for a myriad of responses and "time out" to encourage thoughtful discussion instead of off-the-cuff retorts. I don't know what kind of internet sorcery makes that happen, but it seems to work fairly well in other examples I've seen.

 

I don't think that only allowing one post per user is necessarily a good idea in that, say, user B may make inaccurate statements that user A won't have a chance to correct. The internet often isn't the bastion of truth and a system that doesn't allow for correction only exacerbates that overall issue.

 

Sometimes, back & forth exchanges are the only way to peel away the layers and arrive at basic facts so that wiser choices can be made, whether we're talking about politics, economics, techniques, or equipment. As we all know, facts can be elusive so learning about a person's POV/Agenda/background goes a long way toward being able to accurately evaluate that person's "facts" and advice, and often the only way to learn about a person is through an informative and revealing discussion.

 

:)