Keystone 16mm

[Guest Christopher Heston]

Hi, I've recently seen a slough of Keystone 16mm movie cameras go up on sale at ebay for less than 20 dollars. Do these cameras take good pictures? Are they worth 20 dollars? Can film today still be used in them? Does any body know anything about these cameras?

 

-Chris

[Nate Downes]

Hi, I've recently seen a slough of Keystone 16mm movie cameras go up on sale at ebay for less than 20 dollars. Do these cameras take good pictures?  Are they worth 20 dollars? Can film today still be used in them? Does any body know anything about these cameras?

 

-Chris

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They take excellent pictures. And easily worth $20. They can use modern filmstock. And I own one, an A7, that I use a lot.

[Guest Christopher Heston]

They take excellent pictures.  And easily worth $20.  They can use modern filmstock.  And I own one, an A7, that I use a lot.

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Do you have any digitized footage from your keystone that you'd be willing to post...Any at all?? Even snap shots.

Or could you compare the footage to any other 16mm cameras?? Like say the bolex or arri?

 

-Chris

[Nate Downes]

Do you have any digitized footage from your keystone that you'd be willing to post...Any at all?? Even snap shots. 

Or could you compare the footage to any other 16mm cameras??  Like say the bolex or arri?

 

-Chris

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Not at this moment. Let me scan in some tonight.

 

Compares well to the B&H 200-series, Revere and even the Kodak K-series.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Do you have any digitized footage from your keystone that you'd be willing to post...Any at all?? Even snap shots. 

Or could you compare the footage to any other 16mm cameras??  Like say the bolex or arri?

 

-Chris

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The lens is usually more important than the camera when it comes to contrast (lack of flare) and sharpness. The camera body is doing it's job when it precisely positions each frame and holds it flat during exposure. More expensive cameras offer more ease of use, better viewfinders, quieter operation, or more flexibility, but many "simple" cameras can do the basics quite well.

[Nate Downes]

Camera design does play into a few bits tho. The Keystone has a few limitations, such as the gear for the shutter slightly intrudes on the frame-edge. Now, this "bump" is unnoticed because it is in the area masked, but it also eliminates the opportunity to Super16 or Ultra16 the design as well. Overall, my Keystone is one of my favorites to work with, easily customizable for whatever job I'm doing.

[Guest Erik]

In case you need one, I just found this nifty keystone users manual online:

 

http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Moviecam/Keystone-A7/

[Guest Michael Carter]

My Keystone A9 Criterion 1R works great with Plus X but with fomapan it labors very badly. Another A9 has 2R, but havn't used it. Both have SF.

[John Pytlak RIP]

My Keystone A9 Criterion 1R works great with Plus X but with fomapan it labors very badly. Another A9 has 2R, but havn't used it. Both have SF.

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The Kodak motion picture stocks are optimized for transport in motion picture cameras (e.g., the lube level is very important).

[Guest Michael Carter]

The Kodak motion picture stocks are optimized for transport in motion picture cameras (e.g., the lube level is very important).

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Indeed. Tests with dusty undeveloped old Kodachrome went badly till I wiped out the reels inside and out, the inside of the camera (especially bumps where reels touch body) including the lid reel hubs, and film. After doing that, the film ran through the camera without any sweeking. It was much quieter. It always ran smooth and fast anyway, unlike new Fomapan.

 

One then wonders, should I lube raw unexposed Fomapan prior to exposing and passage through the camera? Hmmmmm. That is worth a test.

Would DERANN L.F.C. film cleaner and lubricant effect processing in any way?

 

BTW, that gear is on the inside sproket edge of the film; it is in the BL corner, looking at the camera front; the picture area for widescreen on the no sproket side has no gear so the gate could be filed wider on that side; no problem. The gear is also on a light metal block that could be filed a little more possibly making a little more picture area on the inside edge. Only the corner would be effected by a little darkening of the gear sprokets if the base were removed from the area between the teeth.

I have two A9 cameras, one a 3xxx series and the other a 6xxx number. The 3 has a smaller gate on the top or right side to allow for a mag stripe to be added to the film later; it also has rounded corners and not squared out like the 6000 series. Picture area is already larger on that one that takes 2R film. A lot of metal would need to be removed to extend the picture area up any more and I doubt the gate could be lowered any. It looks as if my lens would cover any enlarging of the gates. It is a Wollensak f1.9.

Edited March 20, 2005 by Michael Carter

[Guest Michael Carter]

Well, I just committed to shoot 400 feet on my 1R Keystone A9. And that is because 2R Plus-X neg was discontinued and 2R reversal is not available in the UK. So, neg it is and 1R at that.

Only one roll of old Plus-X rev was shot on this camera and it was too dark. OK with the video camera on auto and off the wall telecine; it should also make a good print copy if it is graded. The image was steady. The camera is easier to use than a Bolex.

MY Bolex H-16 is 2R. Perhaps it is time to file off some sproket pins! :huh:

Michael Carter

[Guest Christopher Heston]

I was wondering if anybody knew anything about the keystone A12 or A15 models.

 

-Chris

[Guest Christopher Heston]

From what I've read, the Keystone A series can use c-mount lenses. I have just won an A15 on ebay for 73 dollars.

 

Does anyone know if this model can use high speed film like vision 2 or even kodak's 800T??

 

-Chris

[Freya Black]

From what I've read, the Keystone A series can use c-mount lenses.  I have just won an A15 on ebay for 73 dollars. 

 

Does anyone know if this model can use high speed film like vision 2 or even kodak's 800T??

 

-Chris

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If this camera is a 16mm camera then it can use any 16mm film stock.

The only issue might be if it is only capable of taking double perf 2R film, but the more recent the camera is, the more likely it is to use single perf. As earlier model numbers like the A9 take single perf film, then the A15 will definitely take single perf film assuming it is a 16mm camera.

 

Single perf film of ANY kind will preety much work in any 16mm camera capable of using single perf. The only problems with faster film might be if you are using something like a canon scoopic and you want to use the built in metering, in which case, it only goes up to something like 320 ASA, but then you can still just use the manual controls and use 800ASA film if you so desire.

 

The keystone cameras have no built in metering to the best of my knowledge, so there wouldn't be a speed restriction, but you would either need a handheld meter or have to guess the exposure. If you have a 35mm SLR stills camera, it might have a built in light meter you could use to work out what the settings should be.

 

Apart from restrictions on light metering the only other restrictions on film stocks might be if you have a camera that needs special loads, such as a magazine camera or an a-minima or an old camera that uses 50ft spools. In this case you might have to respool film from the format it is available in which would be a major pain.

 

The only reason I say "If this is a 16mm camera" is that I seem to remember that some of the later A series keystone cameras were double8 cameras, but I think that might have been the A27.

 

The only other restriction on using fast film like 500 or 800 ASA would be if you are in a very bright sunny field or something! ;)

 

love

 

Freya

Edited March 26, 2005 by Freya

[Freya Black]

From what I've read, the Keystone A series can use c-mount lenses.  I have just won an A15 on ebay for 73 dollars. 

 

Does anyone know if this model can use high speed film like vision 2 or even kodak's 800T??

 

-Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

BTW, I feel I may have confused you in another thread where we were chatting about the 240EE. Theres no restriction on shooting any film in that camera either, as long as you do not intend to use the Electronic Eye. If you take the batteries out of the camera and do your metering manually, you can use 500T, 800T anything.

 

The only restriction on speed is the electronic eye, and that's just a luxury anyway, most 16mm cameras have no built in metering system like that.

 

I assumed, wrongly it would appear, that we were talking about the electronic eye metering system. Sorry.

 

See the continuing thread on the 240.

 

love

 

Freya

Edited March 26, 2005 by Freya

[Guest Christopher Heston]

BTW, I feel I may have confused you in another thread where we were chatting about the 240EE. Theres no restriction on shooting any film in that camera either, as long as you do not intend to use the Electronic Eye. If you take the batteries out of the camera and do your metering manually, you can use 500T, 800T anything.

 

The only restriction on speed is the electronic eye, and that's just a luxury anyway, most 16mm cameras have no built in metering system like that.

 

I assumed, wrongly it would appear, that we were talking about the electronic eye metering system. Sorry.

 

See the continuing thread on the 240.

 

love

 

Freya

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Thank you for your response. As you can tell, I'm pretty new to 16mm. I've really only done super 8 up until now. Super 8 is a great medium of film, but I'd really like to get my feet wet so to speak.

 

Thank you so much for all of your input. I promise I will post my test footage of both the Keystone and the Bell and Howell 240ee.

 

-Chris

[Guest Michael Carter]

The only other restriction on using fast film like 500 or 800 ASA would be if you are in a very bright sunny field or something!

Take THAT film into the pub!

 

The Keystone has a shutter speed of 1/35 sec so even 100 asa film or 80 neg is a pain in bright light. I use black and white and put the colored glass filters on it to reduce the light to a level suitable for the camera. Those cameras were designed for 10asa or 40asa at most. Gray England days are great as long as the sun doesn't come out. When I want to shoot bright sun then I use High Contrast copy film 7363 and have it processed as negative or use a deep red or green filter to reduce light three stops. Otherwise f stops are 16 or 22 all the time.