Lucas and Spielberg

[George Ebersole]

* snip*

 

Here's the sad reality: There are PLENTY of people who could make the sort of movies you're talking about, but they're just not interested in participating in the sad, cynical, incestuous, substance-riddled, arse-licking, casting-couch-driven culture that currently controls film making.

Well, I used to cast for industrials way back when, and I know you're being tongue in cheek here with your statement, but neither me nor any of my coworkers did so much as even try to ask one of the models or actresses out.

 

Getting back to the inudstry, the truth is the product being produced is just too niche, and has closed the ranks on the moving going experience for the mainstream viewer who wants to go alone, or with a date, or maybe even take his son without bringing his wife and two daughters.

 

Ordinary films that will bring in the single guy, the family, the two friends, the divorced housewife all combined, are no more. It's all target demographics now.

[James Steven Beverly]

No, I'm pretty sure his ancestry is relatively Kraut-free. Were you talking about

LOL! THAT is HILARIOUS!! I kid Richie but he is an amazing guy with a lot of hutzpa! Ya gotta hand it to him. Everything he got, he got on his own and I truly admire that.

[Guest]

English all the way here! BODDINGTON....can it be anymore English?

 

R,

[Keith Walters]

LOL! THAT is HILARIOUS!! I kid Richie but he is an amazing guy with a lot of hutzpa!

I'm pretty sure he's not Jewish, but he IS in show business....

[James Steven Beverly]

Unfortunately, I'm not Jewish either but I love the word Hutzpa.(I actually love a LOT of Yiddish words and have a great affinity for the Jewish people) When needed, NO other word quite works as well so using it couldn't hurt!

[Keith Walters]

English all the way here! BODDINGTON....can it be anymore English?

 

R,

Well, what about Sir Bartholemew Boddington-Thistlethwaite III?

[Freya Black]

English all the way here! BODDINGTON....can it be anymore English?

 

R,

 

S'true. The cream of Manchester.

 

 

 

[George Ebersole]

Beer and Yiddish aside, I think the film industry is going to readjust big time. Smaller market films with reworked theatres for a higher paying audience and different content.

That doesn't mean jack-s__t for crew in the immediate run, but it may mean more jobs to go around, and not just freelance/union contract work, but full time grips, gaffers, DPs for small scale old fashioned studios that crank out content year around.

 

Just my two bits.

Edited June 19, 2013 by George Ebersole

[George Ebersole]

Fascinating article:

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-spielberg-predicts-implosion-film-567604

 

I've been saying for years these gambles on the massive budget tent pole movies is out of control. Only a "free market" correction will reign in the spending.

 

Interesting what Spielberg said about Lincoln almost being a HBO movie.

 

R,

 

 

Sorry to revive an old thread. The more I think about this, the more I think it's nonsense. I think movies are going to take a backseat to interactive entertainment, but their budgets keep getting bigger and bigger.

 

Time will tell, but I have reservations.

[Keith Walters]

 

 

Time will tell, but I have reservations.

That reminds me of another old Vaudeville gag:

 

"Table for two please."

"Certainly sir. You have reservations?"

"Well ... yeah, but we'll try anything once..."

[Carl Looper]

Spielberg is one of the great filmmakers, even if his peculiar brand of brilliance has been almost consistently aimed at the middle of the road. He has given such movies a good name. At least that's my two cents worth.

 

But he is part of an older generation of filmmakers to whom the new landscape may become increasingly alien. He is becoming a bit of a "fuddy duddy".

 

Not that the problems are not there, but that the solutions are not to be found in what Spielberg and Lucas are suggesting.

 

Lucas and Spielberg told USC students that they are learning about the industry at an extraordinary time of upheaval, where even proven talents find it difficult to get movies into theaters. Some ideas from young filmmakers "are too fringe-y for the movies," Spielberg said. "That's the big danger, and there's eventually going to be an implosion — or a big meltdown. There's going to be an implosion where three or four or maybe even a half-dozen megabudget movies are going to go crashing into the ground, and that's going to change the paradigm."

 

Not just the ideas of young film-makers but the oldies as well - look at the last three Star Wars films. I'd call those films fringe-y, if by that term we mean artless.

 

Of course, we can't really blame Lucas for that. He put his own money where his mouth was, so for that I applaud him indefintiely - but really - I could think of a lot better things he could have spent money on. Perhaps a holiday somewhere, visiting some art galleries and talking to some young people about their ideas rather than his own.

 

Nostalgia is the death of cinema.

 

Both Speilberg and Lucas come from a generation that inherited a solution to cinema's woes: that one way to bring an audience back to the cinema was to create big experience movies. This cost more money, but it also made more money, so in the end analysis, it didn't actually cost anything at all. The raided cinemea history for ideas and gave them a makeover. A great idea. Indeed visionary. But it's just one idea. It's not a rule.

 

Now as far as what Lucas is suggesting it isn't necessarily going to be more big experience middle of the road movies that are going to help the situation - although one can always keep trying that. It's certainly not going to be the artless garbage that Lucas has occasionally engaged in.

 

A much better suggestion is to forget about the whole big experience thing (3D whoopee) and start doing some more sustained intelligent work, on lower budgets, on what makes a movie really tick. Go back to the drawing board rather than relying on old formulas. Have a bit of fun with the cinema. Test out some new ideas. Do some R&D. Spend money on experiemntation - the more the better - indeed the more "fringe-y" the better. But on low budgets rather than mega-budgets.

 

 

C

[George Ebersole]

That reminds me of another old Vaudeville gag:

 

"Table for two please."

"Certainly sir. You have reservations?"

"Well ... yeah, but we'll try anything once..."

 

Keith, well, it's broken record time here for me, but the audience of the pre-90s is what built the movie biz. The audience of the 21st century is what's going to break it with a plethora of comic book movies and no mainstream fair for audiences who look beyond Captain America, Thor, Wasp, and whoever the hell else is on the Avengers for their entertainment.

 

There's a built in market for comic book stuff, but like I said on the other thread, if all you make are comic book movies, then all you're going to get is comic book audiences.

 

I grew up with comic books, I watched sci-fi religiously, read more of the same, but, at some point, you want to see something like "Kramer versus Kramer" or "Chariots of Fire".

 

Last year I tried seeing "What's your number", "One for the money", "Their Idiot Brother" and a few other so-called mainstream films for well mannered mature adults, and every single last one of them sounded like it was written by a fifth grader, and, sorry to offend anyone here, shot and directed by people who were just doing it for the cheque.

 

Just my take.

 

Carl; I'm curious what films you're working on, and what your crew-expertise is.

[James Steven Beverly]

Not "Kramer versus Kramer", that thing was freakin' depressing. Not a huge fan of "Chariots of Fire" either. Don't really know why, just couldn't get into it for some reason.

 

Spielberg is one of the great filmmakers, even if his peculiar brand of brilliance has been almost consistently aimed at the middle of the road. He has given such movies a good name. At least that's my two cents worth.

 

But he is part of an older generation of filmmakers to whom the new landscape may become increasingly alien. He is becoming a bit of a "fuddy duddy".

 

Not that the problems are not there, but that the solutions are not to be found in what Spielberg and Lucas are suggesting.

 

Lucas and Spielberg told USC students that they are learning about the industry at an extraordinary time of upheaval, where even proven talents find it difficult to get movies into theaters. Some ideas from young filmmakers "are too fringe-y for the movies," Spielberg said. "That's the big danger, and there's eventually going to be an implosion — or a big meltdown. There's going to be an implosion where three or four or maybe even a half-dozen megabudget movies are going to go crashing into the ground, and that's going to change the paradigm."

 

Not just the ideas of young film-makers but the oldies as well - look at the last three Star Wars films. I'd call those films fringe-y, if by that term we mean artless.

 

Of course, we can't really blame Lucas for that. He put his own money where his mouth was, so for that I applaud him indefintiely - but really - I could think of a lot better things he could have spent money on. Perhaps a holiday somewhere, visiting some art galleries and talking to some young people about their ideas rather than his own.

 

Nostalgia is the death of cinema.

 

Both Spielberg and Lucas come from a generation that inherited a solution to cinema's woes: that one way to bring an audience back to the cinema was to create big experience movies. This cost more money, but it also made more money, so in the end analysis, it didn't actually cost anything at all. The raided cinema history for ideas and gave them a makeover. A great idea. Indeed visionary. But it's just one idea. It's not a rule.

 

Now as far as what Lucas is suggesting it isn't necessarily going to be more big experience middle of the road movies that are going to help the situation - although one can always keep trying that. It's certainly not going to be the artless garbage that Lucas has occasionally engaged in.

 

A much better suggestion is to forget about the whole big experience thing (3D whoopee) and start doing some more sustained intelligent work, on lower budgets, on what makes a movie really tick. Go back to the drawing board rather than relying on old formulas. Have a bit of fun with the cinema. Test out some new ideas. Do some R&D. Spend money on experimentation - the more the better - indeed the more "fringe-y" the better. But on low budgets rather than mega-budgets.

 

 

C

"fuddy duddy"? Are you sure you're not part of an older generation, one that dates back to 1907? BTW, you DO realize this "senior citizen's" last movie made $182,204,440 in the US theatrical release alone on an estimated $65,000,000 budget? so GIVEN a choice between betting on YOUR opinion on the future of film and Spielberg's and Lucas' (who just recently had 4 BILLION dollars plus change dropped on him for his empire and movie ideas) opinion on the future of film.......gonna go with Steven and George, no offense.

[Carl Looper]

Not "Kramer versus Kramer", that thing was freakin' depressing. Not a huge fan of "Chariots of Fire" either. Don't really know why, just couldn't get into it for some reason.

 

"fuddy duddy"? Are you sure you're not part of an older generation, one that dates back to 1907? BTW, you DO realize this "senior citizen's" last movie made $182,204,440 in the US theatrical release alone on an estimated $65,000,000 budget? so GIVEN a choice between betting on YOUR opinion on the future of film and Spielberg's and Lucas' (who just recently had 4 BILLION dollars plus change dropped on him for his empire and movie ideas) opinion on the future of film.......gonna go with Steven and George, no offense.

 

I date back to the first living cell that was created, however many billions of years ago it happened.

 

The point that Spielberg and Lucas are making is one they think will protect their particular concept of cinema.

 

Why did Lucas sell the Star Wars franchise? Because he couldn't pull his head out of a some ridiculous lost dream. Perhaps now he'll have an opportunity to go on that well deserved holiday and appreciate the real world in all of it's splendour.

 

The cinema belongs to the young and brave - not the childish and insecure.

 

Carl

[Carl Looper]

 

Carl; I'm curious what films you're working on, and what your crew-expertise is.

 

Hi George,

 

I'm currently producing a short independant 35mm film. By independant I mean I'm the the one spending money on it. My expertise is not in producing as such, but then what expertise do you really need when it comes to spending money?

 

Jokes aside, I'm quite passionate about the kind of films I'd like to see made, which is why I decided to produce this film. Just a short one. And purely for the love of it. I'm not going to be making any money with it. I'm going to be spending money on it. Have already spent money on it. In the past I've worked on a number of film projects in varying capacities - mainly cinematography (which has been my main area of interest) and occasionally directing.

 

I'm not sure what more I can add to that. It's my own film. It's being made on my own terms, and if I'm the only one who ends up appreciating it, I won't be bothered in the slightest. :)

 

C

[George Ebersole]

I asked because it didn't seem you had any real interest in cinematography nor the specifics of production, and to be honest your posts don't seem to touch on any facet of any of the realities of actual production.

 

But thanks.

[Carl Looper]

I asked because it didn't seem you had any real interest in cinematography nor the specifics of production, and to be honest your posts don't seem to touch on any facet of any of the realities of actual production.

 

But thanks.

 

I'm certainly interested in the realities of production, but it's in terms of the larger reality, that surrounds and creates those particular realities.

 

C

[James Steven Beverly]

Why did Lucas sell the Star Wars franchise? Because he couldn't pull his head out of a some ridiculous lost dream. P

Yeah, well that and the 4.5 BILLION dollars Disney gave him.

 

 

The cinema belongs to the young and brave - not the childish and insecure.

 

Carl

yeah those kids like:

Martin Scorsese

Roman Polanski

Ridley Scott

James Cameron

Francis Ford Coppola

Garry Marshall

Penny Marshall

Oliver Stone

Barry Levinson

Woody Allen

Rob Reiner

Tim Burton

Mel Brooks

Sam Raimi

Robert Redford

Terrence Malick

Wes Craven

Brian De Palma

Clinton Eastwood Jr.

 

Yeah these youngsters REALLY know their stuff!!

[Carl Looper]

Yeah, well that and the 4.5 BILLION dollars Disney gave him.

 

yeah those kids like:

Martin Scorsese

Roman Polanski

Ridley Scott

James Cameron

Francis Ford Coppola

Garry Marshall

Penny Marshall

Oliver Stone

Barry Levinson

Woody Allen

Rob Reiner

Tim Burton

Mel Brooks

Sam Raimi

Robert Redford

Terrence Malick

Wes Craven

Brian De Palma

Clinton Eastwood Jr.

 

Yeah these youngsters REALLY know their stuff!!

 

By the 'young', I mean the 'young at heart', which fits all of these great directors. But yes, I also mean the young in the literal sense, to which the cinema will eventually belong, if we can inspire it.

 

Carl

[Carl Looper]

Many of these great directors began at a young age, with a brave outlook on life, and a willingness and ability to change the cinema rather than just fit into it.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Carl Looper

[James Steven Beverly]

 

By the 'young', I mean the 'young at heart', which fits all of these great directors.

 

Carl

LOL, OK. Yes many started young but were they great to start with? Some yes, most no. You need EXPERIENCE to become a GREAT film maker. We're human, we learn. It's what we do.Some instinctual know to follow their guts and their guts are right. But NONE made only movies that were great.

[George Ebersole]

 

I'm certainly interested in the realities of production, but it's in terms of the larger reality, that surrounds and creates those particular realities.

 

C

 

Well, this may not be the forum for you. I'm just an out of work grip/Stage-manager who's had roughly ten years in a previous career setting up lights, running deck, pushing dollies and doing a few other things. But I don't hear any of that coming from you.

 

I don't own these forums, I'm pretty much a nobody here, but I don't think you have any real interest in production. That's just my opinion.

 

Thanks.

[Carl Looper]

LOL, OK. Yes many started young but were they great to start with? Some yes, most no. You need EXPERIENCE to become a GREAT film maker. We're human, we learn. It's what we do.Some instinctual know to follow their guts and their guts are right. But NONE made only movies that were great.

 

That's right. Experience. Not formulas.

 

But it's also a catch 22, as they say. If only those with experience need apply the cinema would eventually grind to a stop.

 

To get experience in the first place you have to be brave. To take a step into the unknown, and if it doesn't work, then try it again. And again. What is important is the actual step. The brave part. The "young at heart" part. The come what may approach. Otherwise you can't ever learn anything.

 

To learn from mistakes you have to make them.

 

Fortunately experience is something you can come to understand and appreciate quite quickly, without previously having any. Children acquire their first language without ever having had any previous experience in it.

 

C

 

 

 

 

C

[Carl Looper]

 

Well, this may not be the forum for you. I'm just an out of work grip/Stage-manager who's had roughly ten years in a previous career setting up lights, running deck, pushing dollies and doing a few other things. But I don't hear any of that coming from you.

 

I don't own these forums, I'm pretty much a nobody here, but I don't think you have any real interest in production. That's just my opinion.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi George,

 

I've been out of work many times, so I appreciate your situation. I once lived, for six months, on the street, with no income at all for the entire time. I would not wish that on anyone. But it is also that experience which provides me with two things - one is no desire, whatsoever, to find myself anywhere near that situation ever ever again. Nor wish it on anyone else, or cause it to happen to anyone else.

 

The other is somewhat strange. An appreciation of the world at large - the way it looks through hungry eyes - a very beautiful place. In no need of lights cameras or action, but not in any way diminished by such.

 

That's just my opinion ... but then what else would it be.

 

Carl