The Tragedy in Spain

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Anyone from Spain on this board? You have my full sympathy.

 

It was before 9.11. I was sitting in some corporate office discussing a project. Then one of the guys that I did not know starts telling that he's from Iraq and he just came back from a vacation and how nice everyone was back home, how people are laid back and nice to each other, that we should not argue, or something like that. He appeared to be a very nice guy. But I had very nice guys stab me in a back a few times.

 

No one told him anything. I was in no position to say anything, being too new on the project. But I thought to myself a few things. A few months later we had 9.11.

 

I'm in the Czech Republic right now and there are Arab tourists and they get to the country as easily as anyone else. The Czech government is only now beginning to worry and doing something about securing the subway, trains, etc.

 

The ruling party may be losing in Spain for supporting Bush in Iraq.

 

What is going on in this world? I would like to wake up and realize that all this is just a bad dream. Unfortunately it is not.

[Guest Chainsaw]

RACISM

 

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

 

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

 

 

It was before 9.11. I was sitting in some corporate office discussing a project. Then one of the guys that I did not know starts telling that he's from Iraq and he just came back from a vacation and how nice everyone was back home, how people are laid back and nice to each other, that we should not argue, or something like that. He appeared to be a very nice guy. But I had very nice guys stab me in a back a few times.

 

No one told him anything. I was in no position to say anything, being too new on the project. But I thought to myself a few things. A few months later we had 9.11.

 

What in the hell does any of this have to do with the terrorist attacks on September 11th?

 

This reads as just more of your poorly researched propagandist ideologies (i.e. Bullshit). Your current residence of the Czech Republic is in no way an excuse to be so pitifully informed as to one of the most defining and destructive moments in world history. If anything the European media is far more effective in their covering of world affairs so your ignorance with this is baffling. For the record there was never any proven or reliably suggested link between Iraq, its former government and the members of Al Qaeda.

 

Do you even remember the existence of the militant Islamic terrorist organization founded by Osama Bin Laden and Muhammed Atef? Neither these men nor its substantive members are Iraqi citizens or agents of the previous Iraqi government. While Al Qaeda does (or did) have direct connections with foreign governments and powers - notably the Iranian government and the Hezzballah - there never has been any probative evidence by any reliable government source of a link between Al Qaeda/Bin Laden and Iraq/Hussein. In fact on January 31, 2003 American President George H.W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair flatly stated that there was no link between Hussein/Iraq and Al Qaeda. The only tacit claim of an Iraqi/Al Qaeda link came over two years after the attack on September 11th and then it was little more than propaganda on part of The White House that claimed that Iraq may be harboring terrorist members of Al Qaeda.

 

Even if there was evidence of this sort it does nothing to change the fact that the men who hijacked four planes and successfully attacked three U.S. targets were members of Al Qaeda and were Saudi nationals, not Iraqi's. Iraq and Al Qaeda had radically divergent ideologies and their only common ground being their hatred for America. But even this mutual hatred had wildly divergent foundations and origins. Simply put neither organization needed or would have likely requested the other's aid to attack America. Al Qaeda has launched several successful attacks against U.S. territorial and military targets as well as attacks on several allied foreign powers. There was no proven link with Iraq for any of those attacks either.

 

About the only fact of evidentiary value in your post is the unspoken assertion that you are a racist. Even if Iraq were directly responsible for the terrorist attacks and Hussein poop upon the American flag on live television, your singular Iraqi encounter, by your own claim, happened months before September 11th. Why even mention this at all? Do you really want everyone here to like you even less than they already do? Next time you want attention call your mother; try not to bother this community with your racist sympathies.

 

Your viral words have already claimed an excess of 4% of the total postings here and I am personally sickened by the thought that your scatological synaptic misfirings will continue to degrade this once proud community. You may have made a quiet peace with some of the more notable members of this board but I am not, nor will I ever be counted amongst them. I am completely and utterly done with you.

[Guest Ultra Definition]

I'm sitting in a conference room with bunch of Americans; there is a guy from Iraq, probably a US citizen, and starts telling us all how great his culture is and hinting that it is superior to ours. Well, I have a totallly different opinion as to which culture is better. The films like Midnight Express and a number of others that I saw portrayed the culture. I saw a doccumentary on this culture's community in Germany and how they circumcise their teenage girls, cutting out all parts that may give them pleasure; I've delat with these people on occasions before. Woman's vote is worth 1/2 of man's vote in that part of the world. The rich has 3 wives. Do you know what the poor has? Aitolla Khomeni wrote in his writings about what the poor man could have! I knew a guy who read about it.

 

Am I against the Arabs; do I want to do anything bad to them? No. But I believe that our culture is better than theirs. That is perfectly fine. They think that their culture is better than ours. They saw and read plenty of negative things about our culture. It is perfectly OK to think that one's culture is better than someone else's. But I would not go to live in Iraq, voluntairely, and would only go back to the US on a vacation, because I would prefer living in Iraq, and when I would come back to Iraq, and would not be telling the Iraqis in a project meeting that my culture is better. This is what that Iraqi did. And no one in that meeting had the balls to tell him anything. The problem is not that I talk about it. The problem is if everyone is scared to say anything because he'll be labeled a racist. No one labeled the Iraqi a racist during the meeting or afterwards.

 

The 4% hint? I already said that I have nothing against gays; that I have gay friends although I am not gay.

 

I do not hate anyone. That is me.

 

This post is not for you Chainsaw. I am not talking to you. My relative is a psychiatrist, and a good one. Chainsaw's picture and, nickname, and business name selections give hints. I'm not saying that she would find Chainsaw's hints negative, but she could interpret a lot of things from those hints. Also lookin at my post and the reaction she would have a lot to say. We are all amateur psychologists. Some are better than others. You can't write or make a movie about people and not being one.

 

The original post was about the tragedy in Spain. Since then the Sociallists won and will be pulling out their troups in the middle of the year. 200 dead; 1500 wounded. It's awful.

 

Yes, there is a lot of anti American and anti Bush sentiment everywhere in Europe. I am no Bush lover. I did not vote for him.

 

I've traveled plenty after 9.11 and when certain people got on the plane, everyone was nervous. Were they prejudiced against Arabs? Of course. Do they have a reason to be? Of course. Is it fair to the Arabs? Of course not. I'm sure that there are nice people among them. Is their culture strange and not ucceptable to me? Of course. Do I want to spend time and learn more about their culture and like it more? No, have more importamt things to do.

 

What happened on 9.11 was terrible. What happened in Madrid was terrible. My sympathy goes again to the people of Spain.

[Guest Chainsaw]

Take the hint:

 

SPELLCHECKER

 

 

Well, I have a totallly different opinion as to which culture is better. The films like Midnight Express and a number of others that I saw portrayed the culture.

 

If your entire knowledge of an entire culture of people is based upon films and documentaries then by no means are you qualified to have an opinion.

 

Aitolla Khomeni wrote in his writings about what the poor man could have! I knew a guy who read about it.

 

The problem here is that you have the power of conversation yet lack the ability of speech. I have a friend who read the Chilton Manual for the 1986 Chevy Blazer but that in no way qualifies me to do any form of auto repair. Just as your boast in no manner qualifies you to wax intellectual.

 

They think that their culture is better than ours.

 

I'd like to borrow that Magic 8-Ball you have into the human psyche. All Arabs think that their culture is better than all others? I know a few Arabs who would disagree strongly with that. These things are called stereotypes and prejudices for a reason. Next time you decide to pepper your sentences with blanket statements, do not for a second think that I am a member of your bitter close-minded culture.

 

But I would not go to live in Iraq, voluntairely, and would only go back to the US on a vacation, because I would prefer living in Iraq, and when I would come back to Iraq, and would not be telling the Iraqis in a project meeting that my culture is better. This is what that Iraqi did. And no one in that meeting had the balls to tell him anything.

 

Wow, such arrogance for an individual to have some amount of reverence for his own culture. How you drew an inference from what this man said into some malicious subtext for 9/11 is a mystery for the ages. In your own words you give extreme credence to this man's statement, he praises his culture but there is nothing said of his government. If you are indeed as worldly as you claim then this could not possibly be the first time that you've encountered such a person. I meet such individuals on almost a daily basis and yet I find no reason to include such an encounter in the same voice as the tragedy that befell Spain or America on 9/11. The Twinkie defense had more merit than your argument. You have still done nothing to disprove my claim that you are a racist.

 

The 4% hint? I already said that I have nothing against gays; that I have gay friends although I am not gay.

 

Gays? Either you are the biggest and most non-linear closet homophobe ever to grace our sad universe or you are hip to some archaic and/or obscure sub-culture lingo that I am not. I meant the 4% statement to be taken at face value with no hidden subtext. If you were to click on your pseudonym you may actually realize what I am referring to. It is completely lost on me why you thought this to be a slight upon your sexual orientation. Where I come from this has ceased to be an insult long, long ago.

 

This post is not for you Chainsaw. I am not talking to you.

 

Wrong again. This is an open professional forum for cinematographers, when you post here you are talking to everyone.

 

My relative is a psychiatrist, and a good one.

 

Well, I have a relative who is a Commander of a Polaris Class submarine in the United States Navy, and that like your statement is completely irrelevant here.

 

Chainsaw's picture and, nickname, and business name selections give hints. I'm not saying that she would find Chainsaw's hints negative, but she could interpret a lot of things from those hints.

 

Hints? I didn't think it possible for me to voice my profound dislike for you in a more clear and lucid manner. If I was unclear let me rectify the situation: I DON'T LIKE YOU. I do not like you as a professional nor as a person. While I do not have a divine window into your soul and motivations I do find it profoundly simplistic to judge you by your actions. Since your actions on this forum amount to over 4% of the total posts there is a plethora of information to judge you by without quarter. None of it paints you in a kind or romantic light. As to my name (for it is not a nickname), it is not some ridiculous internet pseudonym (such as you are guilty of) nor did I anoint myself with said name. It was given to me in the same manner as my birth name and for the past decade I have been called Chainsaw far, far more than my given name. It is on my business cards, resume, demo reel, and the tongue of every professional I have worked with in this industry. I am called Chainsaw by my friends, family, students, professional peers, and various others. I have even been called Chainsaw during sex.

 

My member photograph is just that, an altered photograph of myself. It was Xeroxed onto card stock and heavily inked. It is entirely within my rights to have creative license with my likeness.

 

Whatever you infer from my company name is entirely of your own devising.

 

I am as unknown to you as I always was.

 

The original post was about the tragedy in Spain.

 

Was it really? I was under the distinct impression that it was about the same topic as every other one of you insolent posts. Simply yet another pitiful expression of uninformed opinion that seeks a blind audience to bow at its grandeur while scorning all voices of reason. If there was some amount of sincerity embedded in your post it was buried under your puerile self-congratulatory words.

 

Is it fair to the Arabs? Of course not. I'm sure that there are nice people among them. Is their culture strange and not ucceptable to me? Of course. Do I want to spend time and learn more about their culture and like it more? No, have more importamt things to do.

 

Yes, all hail the holy white race! How can you actually say that poop and in the same diseased mind wonder why America was attacked? Ignorance breeds mistrust and fear. If I have to actually explain the hypocrisy of your logic you won't understand it. Have fun playing in the sandbox of life.

 

 

It is these farcical attempts at intelligence and professionalism that make me wish this forum had an "Ignore" feature. I am officially done with this fool. For if I were to argue with this idiot long enough people may not be able to tell the difference...

[Guest Ultra Definition]

I don't know what's cuter, the words or the picture.

 

Amen.

[Jayson Crothers]

As hopefully the final reminder:

 

This is a cinematography forum, designed to discuss technical and aesthetic questions and issues about, and in regards to, cinematography. This post, and many of your others, has nothing to do with cinematography. Please stop posting these types of things on here. Thank you.

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Read the forum title:

 

Off-Topic

Not about cinematography, but you insist on posting here anyway.

 

If you don't like it, complain to the moderator to change the forum description, or ignore the post.

[Dr.Remulak]

:ph34r: I was sitting in a Turkish coffee shop high on the finest local kef when I realized that tragedy happens, so I pull out my wireless satellite computer as I had a strange compulsion to post a meaningless rambling in a totally off topic forum.

The hashish was coming on strong now and I was feeling very self rightious and important, more than any common man. Compelled, my fingers pressed the keys and out came tiny hardend little meaningless turds of wisdom that elevated me in a social manner unlike any forum topic ever posted. Man I was flying on top of the world! After wiping ( the sweat off my brow) I had that empty feeling and just as I was about to post another self important topic my world came crashing down. A reply had suddenly popped up by a "Hacksaw" obviously uninformed on the ways of the world and utterly ignorant of the topic of cinematography and international affairs. Feeling rather angry, I tossed the remainder of my coffee at the Turkish waiter and muttered something about his unibrow as I feverishly began stroking (the keys) to a pitch unknown to the human body. Sensing a climax of wisdom and intelligence, I backed off the pace a bit and changed rythm to further enlighten and inform this human piece of garbage hiding behind the alias of Hacksaw.

Remembering the time I was instituionalized for visions of grandeur, I remembered what my psycologist, or was it a relative, had once told me about "hacksaw" types.

He said somthing to the effect that saws will ultimatly rip you open and expose your putrid rotten inner self so that the whole world can see through you.

I immediately changed topic and proceeded to ramble about the merrits of HIGH definition as viewed by hash eaters and other insightful types. Realizing my battery was almost dead I decided to end my sesion, regroup, and join the Peace Corps. I understand that some opressed Pygmies in Africa need some lessions on cinematography and how to avoid having ones soul taken by the "evil picture box."

Chow!

[Rob Belics]

So Latka's friend is making his first debut on a major boxing ticket that night. On his way to the big event he gets lost in Harlem. He pulls over to the side of the road and walks into the nearest bar filled with the biggest, meanest people you've ever seen. "I am looking for a fight!" he yells.

[Malinko]

"I am Dr Remulak"

 

"I am Dr Remulak"

 

 

"I am Dr Remulak"

 

 

"I am Dr Remulak"

 

"I am Dr Remulak"

 

"I a

 

Stuttering John

 

ITS ALLRIGHT DOCTOR YOU CAN TALK TO ME!

 

Dr Remulck rules!

[Guest Ultra Definition]

The post by Dr. Remulak: I was cracking up; it was really funny!

[Malinko]

I love it when he calls Stern. I hope the

Doctors OCD is under control.

 

Dr. Remulak WINS! :P

[Fulgencio Martinez]

Hi,

I´m from Madrid.

I live less than half a mile from where the masacre happened.

It could have been me.

Here people are still shocked about this.

I´m counting my words to not let go all the fury i have against USA.

Morocco is a friend neighbor i have visited several times, did documentaries there and have friends.

There is only one culture that´s under the others and it might be yours.

We don´t need any world "police"

F**k you if you are afraid to go on a plane. People in Bagdad (the place where all cultures come from) are afraid day and night.

Turn off the CNN, read more, try to meet people from other countries and realize how it feels to be attacked with high technology weapons when you don´t even have food to bring your family.

201 more marks on the nazi cowboy gun.

As this is a cinematography forum i was searching trying not to think about terrorism i´ll leave you with a cinematographic idea.

Next time you feel like watching "save private ryan" or some that war bullshit made by good americans please try to watch any of those human films made by those evil arabs.

[Dr.Remulak]

:ph34r: Dreaming of yet another board room meeting, I awoke after a nap on the train to Madrid. Noticing the kef had worn off and slowly regaining my wits, I got off the train before Madrid and after finding a somewhat safe coffee shop, I decided it was time to power up the trusty ol' laptop to post in my favorite off topic forum. Yes I was going to stay out of trouble this time and head on to Morocco.

Tired of playing "culture wars" I decided to post a big steamer about the evil great Satans of the world and all the other opressed cultures in the Middle East. But before I posted, I called up the CNN website to see if there were any hot-spots to avoid on the way. Sudenly "Save Private Ryan" pops on my screen and for a second or two I thought I was on the CNN site watching the lates HIGH technology weapons attack. It looked something akin to a bunch of Nazi Cowboys with guns. Realizing I had left the DVD in the drive, I had a good laugh, loaded a big pipe of kef and proceeded to once again stroke my keys like some new form of frottage.

Trying to not think about terrorism, I focused my hatered on "Hacksaw" the scapegoat. (always a good source of topic) The kef was creeping up my spine like a thick warm blanket and I though, here I go again.

DAMN YOU TERROISTS! DAMN YOU AMERICANS! DAMN YOU HACKSAW!

DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

I am the origional Nazi Cowboy. I am a man with a mission, a boy with a gun.

I have a picture in my pocket of the lucky one....

[Jack Davidson]

Dear Dr.

I was wondering if perhaps you might guide your dreams to further enlighten us in the matter of a proper accounting of responsibility for the cords of stacked corpses. Perhaps parceled out according to poll driven information. ie. 80% Spanish against the war therfor 8 of ten innocents chalked to Al Qaeda. 2 for Aznar and Bush. etc......social mathematics of Borgs beating their chests in this chess game of assimilation.......insight does not automatically assign hypocrisy. Try we must, though Hades is the order of the Day.

[Jason Maeda]

"I´m counting my words to not let go all the fury i have against USA."

 

fulgencio, have you considered the possibility that you're angry at the wrong people?

 

then again, i'm just an illiterate nazi bully. what do i know?

[Fulgencio Martinez]

sorry,

when i said fury against USA

i should say fury against USA´s goverment and it´s international "politics"

As i see it´s internal politics are more or less the same, but that´s your problem.

Keep those electric chairs hot in your "civilized" country

What makes Guantanamo better than Auswitz?

[Jack Davidson]

Fulgencio.

 

You have clearly stated that you are unhappy with the US political situation. Please list the 'sins' of the Americans. Please try to get beyond competitive wrapture and speak of the specific things that you hold against the US.......They don't torture and cook people in Guantanimo. That's one of the benefits of open society. It's fairly certain that if atrocities such as this were happening we would know.

 

Consider this a reasonable offer to discuss these issues without rancor or malice.

 

Sincerely, Jack Davidson

[Fulgencio Martinez]

Here is a quick search i did for you about guantanamo:

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

there are spanish citizents being TORTURED by the USA goverment

If you want more info about your country killing elected presidents and getting dictators to rule countries please search about CHILE

If you need info about invading countries to control cocaine production and the money it offers search NICARAGUA search BOLIVIA

This same month mercenaries paid by US goverment tried to change goverment.

Search GUINEA ECUATORIAL

CAMBOYA, VIETNAM, LIBIA, AFGANISTAN, IRAK, CUBA, ECUADOR.....Do you want me to find more info for you?

There are countries in Africa were people REALLY need to be liberated from their dictators and their long years of civil war.

Of couse there is no oil in this busines.

[Fulgencio Martinez]

A collegue cameraman killed deliberately by US troops

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tr...03/1020jose.htm

Do you need more info?

[Jason Maeda]

hey genius, do a little search for "spain" on that same amnesty website.

jk

[Fulgencio Martinez]

Did the search.

693 news found.

Do you want to comment any of them?

Even when a dictator ruled our country death penalty was stopped in the sixties.

Our last international war was 1898

If you want to talk about human rights in Spain of course you could find many things to talk about

I am not saying my country is better than others

In fact i´m spanish and you are american (I guess) just by casuality.

[Jack Davidson]

Fulgencia.

 

So you think our country is barbaric and weilds its power unjustly? What would make everything okay, in your opinion?

 

I rather suspect that the US is damned when it does and damned when it doesn't. If we were to go into Africa it would be decried as American imperialism. Quite frankly I would'nt mind kicking some dictators butts, however there will always be detractors who will use any situation to their own designs. Then have it played out at the U.N. as a means of extortion for financial concession.

 

If there is Torture happening at Guantanamo beyond 'mental anguish' I will be happy to do everything within my power to see that this is stopped and the bad guys severely punished. Sometimes bad people are put in positions of authority. This occurs not only in the US but everywhere there are human beings. This is unfortuanate and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

Somewhere in your writings I get a whiff of sympathy for socialism. Do we have too much wealth in the US and do you feel as if we have aquired our prosperity by cheating and lies? Ill gotten gain?

 

As for oil I say the middle east can keep it. I wish that the US and Canada would give a wartime like priority to fuelcell technology. Of course this would be met as a conspiracy to deprive that region of a financial gain on their only valuable commodity.

 

I'm just wondering how much of this really has to do with issues of justice and how much to do with envy? We are a very generous people. By and large I think we try to do the right thing.

Our country will always fall short of its perfect goal only because the standard is set impossibly high. But for all of our many failings we do, after all is said and done, try.

 

Jack Davidson

[Fulgencio Martinez]

"Quite frankly I would'nt mind kicking some dictators butts, however there will always be detractors who will use any situation to their own designs. Then have it played out at the U.N. as a means of extortion for financial concession."

 

Do you realize the invasion of Irak was against U.N

Please read the newspapers

 

"If there is Torture happening at Guantanamo beyond 'mental anguish' I will be happy to do everything within my power to see that this is stopped"

 

As i see mental troture is ok for you

Guantanamo situation is against international lwas even in case of war

 

"Somewhere in your writings I get a whiff of sympathy for socialism."

 

Probably you saw too many films about bad comunist people. Comunism is dead since the fall of berlin wall. The only places where it is still a political order is CHINA and CUBA. That island where people have problems to get a living because your generous country is blocking their comerce.

Real problems with human right are in CHINA but your country is afraid of them so Bush shakes hands with them everytime they meet.

Socialism is another thing. Here in Europe we have diferent parties. not just two dogs with different collars. This is called democracy. Socialism rules many countries. It is not an anti-democrtic ideology. Tony Blair is from the socialist Party, so is our next president. Please don´t invade Europe!

 

"I'm just wondering how much of this really has to do with issues of justice and how much to do with envy? We are a very generous people."

 

What makes you think i can envy you? do you think americans are more wealthy than regular Spanish people?

What makes you think you are generous people?

Is this for the money you do spend in poor countries?

 

I´d like to end setting clear all this comes because of the Alqeda atact to madrid.

Everyone in Spain though this was cause because of the support to your masacre in Irak. This is why Aznar was thrown out of power in the next days by the people.

So all this people who went to vote think as i do. The first hing the new goverment did was to say that this support is no more held and that the spanish troops (wich never got to battle) will be back in Spain by the beggining of the summer.

 

I didn´t start this topic, just found people talking about doing something with the arabs.

Do something

LEAVE THEM ALONE

[Jack Davidson]

In general I'm going to characterize your responses as being sarcastic and presumptuous.

 

It might be of interest to you that our Democrat Party is quite in keeping with the socialists. And quite a few share your love and allegiance to the UN. I'm not one of them. Nonetheless we have a fair representation of every stripe of collective political endeavor including thankless europeans

and unhappy Arabs.

 

What is your feeling on the Serbian/Croation thing? Was it okay because of UN approval?

 

As to Spanish sentiment that the US is the cause of the train tragedy is simply an invitation for disaster. If you can't see that your political soveriegnty is at stake then there is nothing that I can say to show you otherwise.

 

Somehow I doubt that most of the world lives in fear of a US invasion/dictatorship. In general we are more than willing to help encourage democracy from afar. It's too bad you and people like you are probably hoping for some sort of failure of the democracy effort in Iraq simply for the delicious moment of claiming "I told you so.' Seems to me as if you were talking about the european virtues of true democracy. Of course perhaps those Arabs don't deserve a shot at something you take for granted.

 

If I am wrong in my perceptions please feel free to point out the error of my ways.