Educational credentials, and the film industry

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I'm going through a dilemma right now, wondering if school qualifications are even needed when getting a job in the industry.

 

Currently I'm studying a-level film in college, and geography GCSE, after both those courses I will be left with 5 A-C's and 1 A level.

 

But already I have quit 1 subject, and on the verge of quitting one. (I practically have quit it)

 

 

Thing is I'm not seeing education as that important right now; I'm going for the film industry which relies on film experience.

 

But even if I failed in the film industry, even though I don't have many qualifications I still have something to fall back on. A years experience at Chas Norman Cameras, so I could easily get a job there if there was ever an opening or I could get a job at any other camera shop pretty much in the U.K. providing there is an opening.

 

 

So, how important ARE qualifications in the film industry?

 

Tnx,

Dan.

[Keith Mottram]

I'm going through a dilemma right now, wondering if school qualifications are even needed when getting a job in the industry.

 

Currently I'm studying a-level film in college, and geography GCSE, after both those courses I will be left with 5 A-C's and 1 A level.

 

But already I have quit 1 subject, and on the verge of quitting one. (I practically have quit it)

Thing is I'm not seeing education as that important right now; I'm going for the film industry which relies on film experience.

 

But even if I failed in the film industry, even though I don't have many qualifications I still have something to fall back on. A years experience at Chas Norman Cameras, so I could easily get a job there if there was ever an opening or I could get a job at any other camera shop pretty much in the U.K. providing there is an opening.

So, how important ARE qualifications in the film industry?

 

Tnx,

Dan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It all depends on what area you are considering in working in and even then the qualifications are nothing more than a networking route. I do not regret college and art school and they left me with valuable experience that i take with me on every job. I also, through college, made friends who became coleagues and connections. I also made friends which are not connected to the business which to be honest is a massive bonus. I considered dropping school at sixteen when I was already working as a runner/ edit assistant and sometimes I wish I did. However, I feel that some of the experiences I gained away from the industry and some of the mistakes that I made in a non-commercial enviroment are invaluable. I dont consider myself a massive success, but at 30 I'm doing alright and I think I made the right choice. It is a difficult decision and which ever way you go you will sometimes look back and think you made the wrong choice. If your interested I got six GCSE's A-C and 2 A levels (an E and a D), I'm extremely dislexic so thats my excuse (although the large amout of pot I smoked could also be a contribution!) and no one has ever asked me what I got- nor for that matter what kind of honors degree I recieved. You need at the end of the day to asses where you want to go with your career. If your going to be cominging into contact with people on a day to day basis then good people skills are a must and it is easier to learn these in a college enviroment than on a film set.

 

Keith

[Guest]

Daniel J. Ashley-Smith, I don't understand why you need school at all?

 

Remember you are shooting a film that will look better than Lord Of The Rings this summer. Have you forgotten that project? You are going to post it and prove us all wrong. At least that was your plan.

 

Once you finish this film that will look better than LOTR Hollywood execs will be lining up at your door, offering you millions to make films for them.

 

So don't worry, you'll be fine.

 

Richard

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

It all depends on what area you are considering in working in and even then the qualifications are nothing more than a networking route. I do not regret college and art school and they left me with valuable experience that i take with me on every job. I also, through college, made friends who became coleagues and connections. I also made friends which are not connected to the business which to be honest is a massive bonus. I considered dropping school at sixteen when I was already working as a runner/ edit assistant and sometimes I wish I did. However, I feel that some of the experiences I gained away from the industry and some of the mistakes that I made in a non-commercial enviroment are invaluable. I dont consider myself a massive success, but at 30 I'm doing alright and I think I made the right choice. It is a difficult decision and which ever way you go you will sometimes look back and think you made the wrong choice. If your interested I got six GCSE's A-C and 2 A levels (an E and a D), I'm extremely dislexic so thats my excuse (although the large amout of pot I smoked could also be a contribution!) and no one has ever asked me what I got- nor for that matter what kind of honors degree I recieved. You need at the end of the day to asses where you want to go with your career. If your going to be cominging into contact with people on a day to day basis then good people skills are a must and it is easier to learn these in a college enviroment than on a film set.

Tnx for the reply Keith. I don't think I have any contacts through my education, but, I'll probably still continue it, just seems like the right thing to do. (Always something extra to fall back on) Well, for my poor grades I'd blame it on my autism, funny though, most people who have conditions like dyslexia e.t.c. seem to be into stuff like film (and other media) Perhaps those kinds of conditions make you more creative or something?

 

Daniel J. Ashley-Smith, I don't understand why you need school at all?

 

Remember you are shooting a film that will look better than Lord Of The Rings this summer.  Have you forgotten that project?  You are going to post it and prove us all wrong.  At least that was your plan.

 

Once you finish this film that will look better than LOTR Hollywood execs will be lining up at your door, offering you millions to make films for them.

 

So don't worry, you'll be fine.

 

Richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard I'm not interested. Besides, I will admit now that it won't come out as nice as Lord of the Rings, because I can't afford the equipment they used, but at least it's a goal. But I can promise you it will look great, although I know you will never say it's great even if it is...

 

I mean, what is your deal anyway? You come onto boards looking for arguments? I'll tell you now that I'm not interested, don't bother replying, because it's just a waste of both our time.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You're really not getting this, are you.

 

> I will admit now that it won't come out as nice as Lord of the Rings, because I

> can't afford the equipment they used

 

That's not the reason it won't come out as nice as Lord of the Rings.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

You're really not getting this, are you.

 

> I will admit now that it won't come out as nice as Lord of the Rings, because I

> can't afford the equipment they used

 

That's not the reason it won't come out as nice as Lord of the Rings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can work lighting and framing to my imagination, so it's whatever art takes your fancy.

 

But in using 35mm the results would make all the difference. After all, it's a reel, it has to look good, I know we discussed that it all depends on the lighting e.t.c. but nothing strikes you harder than 35mm film. Right now I'm viewing some 35mm slides I took, Fuji chrome professional, and I have to say, absolutely beautiful. It just doesn't work with digital.

 

I'll try scanning some of them in at work; the colours are just out of this world. You couldn?t get those kinds of results with digital, no matter what lighting.

 

 

Well, we'll see if it's the reason why it won't come out as good as Lord of the Rings.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Robert Hughes]

Richard/Phil - c'mon, he's a headstrong kid. Give him a break.

 

Daniel - Prove us all wrong. Go for the brass ring.

 

Everything you do adds to your experience, so as long as you attempt something - anything - you'll learn more than if you don't do it.

 

I didn't graduate from my local film school, but thank my lucky stars I attended the 2 years that I did. In addition to the practical techniques I learned and the greater understanding of film art that I gained, I'm still in contact with my old instructor, and met several good people in the local scene as a result of the classes. And I even work in the field, although film school played no direct part in that.

[Guest]

Daniel,

 

I'll be the first in line to tell you it's as good as LOTR, if in fact it is.

 

You're the one who told us all it would, your words not mine or any one elses.

 

I'm just quoting what you said. If you get in a snit as a result, your problem, not mine.

 

Richard

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I didn't graduate from my local film school, but thank my lucky stars I attended the 2 years that I did. In addition to the practical techniques I learned and the greater understanding of film art that I gained, I'm still in contact with my old instructor, and met several good people in the local scene as a result of the classes. And I even work in the field, although film school played no direct part in that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh I can't say I haven't learnt anything from studying a-level film, so I suppose it helps in that way. (Which is the idea of studying film anyway, although government education standards are fairly low so I wasn't expecting to learn anything on top of what I already knew)

 

I'll be the first in line to tell you it's as good as LOTR, if in fact it is.

Oh my ass you will!

 

You're the one who told us all it would, your words not mine or any one elses.

 

I'm just quoting what you said. If you get in a snit as a result, your problem, not mine.

And if it doesn't come out as good as Lord of the Rings? Oh dear I'll be humilated by some sucker I don't even know and will probably never meet in my life! (In other words, I couldn't give a sh**)

 

It's my goal. Whats your goal? To go around forums annoying the hell out of people trying to put them down?

 

You might feel all big and clever because your older and have had more experience, so you try and put me to shame, but just remember there are plenty of people out there including people on this board who would quite easily put YOU to shame.

 

So, just remember your still a little fish in a big pond, stop acting as if your Conrad L. Hall or someone.

 

 

Oh and btw this thread is about how educational qualifications help you in the industry, just quit bitching before this thread gets closed or something, it?s my thread and I?d like to get some opinions from people, not have a full out poxy argument as usual.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Your just prejudiced agains't young people.

[Jordan Brade]

Dude, I know how you feel about school. I'm only in Highschool right now, approaching my senior year, and right now I don't feel like going to college. I know this sounds egotistical, but I feel I could be doing something more worthwhile than just sitting in a classroom learning about film-I could actually be experiencing it!

 

I really want to see the project you're working on. Seriously, it can't be too bad to think "This film is going to be better than LOTR!"-It's a goal to shoot for and you might accomplish it. After all, it's not like the successful filmmakers of the past and present thought of their pet project as being horrible compared to their favorite movies.

[Guest]

Daniel,

 

You're the one using all the bad language, not me. Perhaps you should try a more professional tone, you would be more respected if you did.

 

Richard

[Rik Andino]

Your just prejudiced agains't young people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh here we go again...someone gets in trouble and they use the P word.

 

 

And Richard thanks for showing us that you don't have to be 15 to still act like one.

 

Can't you people grow up?

[Rik Andino]

Dude, I know how you feel about school. I'm only in Highschool right now, approaching my senior year, and right now I don't feel like going to college. I know this sounds egotistical, but I feel I could be doing something more worthwhile than just sitting in a classroom learning about film-I could actually be experiencing it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh to be young and foolishly in love...

 

Man! I miss those days--

 

You can be experiencing film in a classroom too!

As well as a bunch of other things.

 

College isn't a vocational school where you learn air conditioner repair...

It's about expanding your knowledge & growing up...

It's your last journey before adulthood...

Don't let the opportunity pass you by

because you want to experience the job market...

You'll have years (that's if you manage to live long) to do this later on...

 

Trust me go to college you'll regret it less than not going.

The world will still be waiting when you're done...

Don't be in a hurry to make it

Or you might miss the little things which are just as interesting and important.

 

Good Luck

[Jordan Brade]

Oh to be young and foolishly in love...

 

Man! I miss those days--

 

You can be experiencing film in a classroom too!

As well as a bunch of other things.

 

College isn't a vocational school where you learn air conditioner repair...

It's about expanding your knowledge & growing up...

It's your last journey before adulthood...

Don't let the opportunity pass you by

because you want to experience the job market...

You'll have years (that's if you manage to live long) to do this later on...

 

Trust me go to college you'll regret it less than not going.

The world will still be waiting when you're done...

Don't be in a hurry to make it

Or you might miss the little things which are just as interesting and important.

 

Good Luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you for the advice. I don't really want to miss out on college, it's just that sometimes I have this feeling that I want to just be done with school and everything and just move on. I may go to college yet, as everyone of my friends and family are telling me the same things you've said and convince me it would be in my best interest. However, every while or so I tend to end up in the "I don't want to go to college" mood.

 

Who knows, it might pass and I might end up at college and really love it.

[Guest]

"And Richard thanks for showing us that you don't have to be 15 to still act like one."

 

What ever Rick, what ever.....

 

Richard

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Thank you for the advice. I don't really want to miss out on college, it's just that sometimes I have this feeling that I want to just be done with school and everything and just move on. I may go to college yet, as everyone of my friends and family are telling me the same things you've said and convince me it would be in my best interest. However, every while or so I tend to end up in the "I don't want to go to college" mood.

 

Who knows, it might pass and I might end up at college and really love it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The best thing about college, is actually feeling like an adult and being respected like one. You just have so much more freedom than school.

 

And students respect each other aswell. Back in secondary school my average lunch break would consist of me and my friends hanging out indoors trying to avoid the pikeys. (Yobs) Now, whatever music you're into, whatever style you like, your still respected. It's just so much more comfortable. You don't have to worry about being beaten up by 50 pikeys after lesson because you came out with something that actually made logical sense. (Something they can't do)

 

Plus in college teachers are more of less friends towards students. (Apart from some I know)

 

 

So, yeh college is great, for a while until you get sick of it.

 

 

You're the one using all the bad language, not me. Perhaps you should try a more professional tone, you would be more respected if you did.

Well whatever you say... I'm not feeding this damn argument anymore. (A pathetic argument at that)

Edited April 16, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Riku Naskali]

So you're just sitting in a classroom on your film schools? That sounds just terrible, there is no way to learn without doing. At least that's what we are doing in here, I've shot something like 15 shorts in my first two years and haven't sat too much in a classroom :P

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

So you're just sitting in a classroom on your film schools? That sounds just terrible, there is no way to learn without doing. At least that's what we are doing in here, I've shot something like 15 shorts in my first two years and haven't sat too much in a classroom  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well 2nd year of college there is some practical work I believe but from my understanding 99% of the course is theory.

 

I would disagree in saying that there?s NO learning without doing, thing is studying film in a college is much different from studying in a film school. In film school you do more practical stuff, in the course I'm currently taking it's all theory, the difference is the course I'm taking is a course setup by the government, it's not a private film school or anything (I would never be able to afford one). But, there?s still things to be learnt, useful things.

 

It just shows you how much the U.K government knows about the process of learning film, they think it's all textbook stuff. They think if you study 2 years of film you are ready and qualified to work in the film industry. I guess that's my whole point about how important qualifications are when getting jobs in the industry. I mean, when I make my films, when someone approaches me and says they got an A* in a-level film and they'd like to work on my project, I'd much rather go with the guy who left school at 16 but made loads of films.

 

I mean, what does getting an A* in film studies prove? That you have the ability to write boring, pointless essays. So, effectively all you are is an office worker. Not a film maker.

 

Through all my essays I have gotten B's, I never even tried. It's because I had learnt about films through making them, not through sitting in class listening to the endless lectures given by my teachers. Although through sitting in those classes I did absorb a lot of useful information which helped me put those essays into perspective.

 

 

I think in taking film studies in college it does help with little things, helps tie in knowledge gaps, and if you're lucky make a few contacts, but most of all it's the college experience. It's like when you're in secondary school saying you wish you could go back to primary school, you kick yourself for saying primary school was rubbish. College is boring as hell to me right now, but I know in the future I'll look back on it as one of the best times of my life. Just as I see primary school as the best time of my life now. (Not that I?d want to back and sit in a foot high chair drawing with crayons? although? the thought it does seem somewhat tempting compared to what I?m doing now!)

Edited April 16, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Filip Plesha]

I can work lighting and framing to my imagination, so it's whatever art takes your fancy.

 

But in using 35mm the results would make all the difference. After all, it's a reel, it has to look good, I know we discussed that it all depends on the lighting e.t.c. but nothing strikes you harder than 35mm film. Right now I'm viewing some 35mm slides I took, Fuji chrome professional, and I have to say, absolutely beautiful. It just doesn't work with digital.

 

I'll try scanning some of them in at work; the colours are just out of this world. You couldn?t get those kinds of results with digital, no matter what lighting.

Well, we'll see if it's the reason why it won't come out as good as Lord of the Rings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Daniel, try printing both your slides and a good DSLR shots of the same scenery side by side.

 

You will find that while there is visible difference, it is not as nearly as much as you assumed it would be.

 

Looking at slides on a lighttable does NOT compare to looking at digital images on a monitor by a long shot. If you put these in the same medium the difference would be much less.

[Jonathan Spear]

"" Daniel J. Ashley-Smith, I don't understand why you need school at all?

 

Remember you are shooting a film that will look better than Lord Of The Rings this summer. Have you forgotten that project? You are going to post it and prove us all wrong. At least that was your plan.

 

Once you finish this film that will look better than LOTR Hollywood execs will be lining up at your door, offering you millions to make films for them.

 

So don't worry, you'll be fine.

 

Richard ""

 

------

 

you little bitch...

 

:rolleyes:

 

========

 

F--k film school. B)

 

IMO, If you or your folks are going to spend that kind of money, you're pobably better off spending a year or two =REALLY= studying cinematography, exposure, lighting, directing -- whatever --, work at a camera rental place, watch as many movies as you possibly can and read anything you can ge your hands on regarding the art and practice of cinematography/directing. When you're done reading, shoot a million test rolls -- apply what you've read and get the hands on experience you need. Find a mentor and learn from him/her.

 

That's probably what you'll be doing in film school anyway, right?

 

You could also buy a nice camera/lighting kit and try to get work in the US of A with that money -- once you're ready, of course.

 

You just have to make SURE you know exactly what you're doing because Hollywood will probably give you only one chance.

When you blow that once in a lifetime oppurtunity, you may end up like Richard Boddington -- old, broke, washed up and bitter.

[Dominic Case]

So, how important ARE qualifications in the film industry?

Wrong question.

 

You should be asking, "how important is an education (not just the certificate) to YOU".

 

That education might include some practical skills in your chosen field. It might include some background understanding of film - cinema - media in general - or even of life itself.

 

It might offer you a shortcut to understanding things, by building on what humanity has spent the last few thousand years working out - and show you where we got it right, and where we got it wrong.

 

Of course it might not: and while some of that will depend on the quality of the teaching you are getting, some of it will depend on you too.

 

These are days of lifelong learning. You'll have opportunities (and need, very probably) to go back and learn more later. But then it will likely cost you more, and you'll be struggling to pay fees as well as cover your living expenses when you have to work and go to classes all at the same time. Grab the chance now, while you can afford it.

 

Then again, as Oscar Wilde said "nothing that is worth knowing can be taught".

[Warwick Hempleman]

Pardon me for jumping in here. I graduated Magna cum Laude in Communications, from Adelphi University (class of 1980). The one truly practical thing I learned there was how to thread, sync, clean and maintain an upright Moviola. It's a useless skill now, but got me work after college as a PA on commercials. I learned a lot of theory in school that I might never have gotten explained to me on a set. I was able to make catastrophic mistakes, and learn from those of others, without ruining work situations (or shoots) forever. I also had work internships with productions and with a film archive, which broadenend my horizons. I met people who lived from the theoretical and aesthetical side of film, as well as people who actually made movies - art films, features, TV series, documentaries, commercials, industrials - every aspect, even local news.

 

The head of my department, on our last day as students, left us with this pearl: "This week, as many people will graduate from film and communications programs across the US as are currently employed in the entire industry. Good luck, you'll need it."

 

Working put this all in perspective. Bu the theory, combined with practice, is necessary. Go to school, and stay in school.

 

To continue the story: I worked in production, eventually became a grip, and left NY where I still have my union card (IA local 52), to live in Germany. I founded and run an equipment house here, and still find time to be on set 40-50 days a year, depending on the state of the business.

[Warwick Hempleman]

Then again, as Oscar Wilde said "nothing that is worth knowing can be taught".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

He also said "Man, being rational, drinks"!

[Guest]

"I founded and run an equipment house here"

 

You're smart Warwick, seems like you discovered what I did. You can make a lot more money supplying film makers the parts they need to make a film, rather than work on or make films.

 

Richard