Steven Budden Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I just posted this in the wrong forum so here it is again... I'm trying to decide whether to buy a manual zoom or an automatic exposure zoom for my bolex, but I guess this question could be taken as more universal. What should I consider when choosing? In what circumstances does the auto exposure come in handy? I know I read of a lot of people having the POE switar converted to a manual zoom. Why might one prefer a manual? (For instance, a POE or PTL vario switar vs. MC vario switar) I should mention, I'll mostly be shooting with the spring motor SBM, short, often handheld takes. Thanks for any help. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Marks Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Long story short - IMHO "automatics" have no place in serious filmmaking, which is probably why there are so few to choose from. I'm sure others will chime in with more detailed opinions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Long story short - IMHO "automatics" have no place in serious filmmaking, which is probably why there are so few to choose from. I'm sure others will chime in with more detailed opinions.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks! That's good to hear, because manuals are cheaper. I like when the better option is cheaper. Wait... come to think of it... that's never happened to me before! So why does one think all of these bolex zooms are auto? Were they designed more for amateurs or something? Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Another zoom related question... Those newer vario switars (PTL, MC, etc) are between 1000 and 2000 generally (ebay). For that price would it be better to get a PL mount and a PL zoom? Any around that price range? This is a Les Bosher PL mount. He assures it will work with the Bolex reflex, and many dealers buy and sell them without complaint. Anyway, I'm just starting shooting with primes and I'm finding switching them all the time slightly irritating. (well, it might be easier with a turret model rather than an SBM!) Thanks! Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The Switar 12.5-100 will hold its own against anything in the price range you're talking about. Plus, with the Aspheron it's 6.5mm, very cool (well I think so). (you can also get FL's between 6.5 & 12.5 this way but you *can't zoom* with the Aspheron on. The drawback (say as opposed to a Zeiss 10-100) is that of course you're kinda doing a lens change when you want to go wider than 12.5mm (sometimes, 10mm is my "normal" lens (but I ain't claiming to be normal B) Also of course the Switar zoom is designed to correct aberration induced by the Bolex prism optics. I'd say - feel free to ignore me - if you're starting out fimmaking, don't give up on primes yet. Get a sense of SPACE as well as just frame. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Thanks! I like the aspheron idea too, but it nearly doubles the price. I originally wanted to stick with primes because my POE was so bulky and heavy, but without the auto exposure parts I don't think the MC would be too too bulky. Also, after I realized how big that 75mm macro switar prime was (Almost as big/ heavy as a zoom) I thought I might as well get all my primes into one zoom and just keep a 10mm around for more handheld stuff. Do you know... can the MC do Macro-type shots? Also did it originally come with the aspheron or did they also come separately? I know MC's with the earlier serial numbers can't use the aspheron at all, from what I've seen. Thanks! Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Can the Vario Switar MC do extreme close ups? I know the Zeiss 10-100 can focus right up to the front element (or so I've read). Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I'm not familiar with any Switar zooms except the 12.5 - 100. The 10-100 T2 Zeiss zooms will vignette at less than ~ 30mm when focussed cloer than 5' The older T3 I forget, I doubt if they focus closer than that. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 The vario switar 12.5 - 100 is the MC, just multicoated. Same as the PTL but without the auto exposure. I just bought one so we'll see how it goes. Sadly, I coudn't afford the aspheron but at least I got one with the switch to accept it. Maybe I can sell off my primes and find a deal on one of those eventually. I just found out that it can do macro with the aspheron on but not without it. Also, I was reading about the Zeiss 10-100 T2 in 16mm camera book. Says it focuses down to 5 feet but has a useful macro feature that will turn the lens into a 10mm prime and focus all the way down to its front element. I dunno. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Is this an angenieux 12-120 with a bolex bayo mount? I didn't know they made those... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...egory=4691&rd=1 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I just found out that it can do macro with the aspheron on but not without it. Also, I was reading about the Zeiss 10-100 T2 in 16mm camera book. Says it focuses down to 5 feet but has a useful macro feature that will turn the lens into a 10mm prime and focus all the way down to its front element. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've shot macro on the 12.5-100 Switar, that's why I used it. I have not seen a Zeiss 10-100 T2 that did not vignettee in "macro" mode @ 10mm. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 I've shot macro on the 12.5-100 Switar, that's why I used it. Aspheron needed for macro mode correct? Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 [Aspheron needed for macro mode correct? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I hate "auto" anything. I don't like machines & computers making creative decisions for me, because they assume one "right" choice, which is often the exact rule I want to break to get a certain look. MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Mastrogiacomo Posted July 25, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 25, 2005 I have not seen a Zeiss 10-100 T2 that did not vignettee in "macro" mode @ 10mm. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have a Zeiss 10-100 T2 with the 87mm front element that was coverted to S16 with the Optex conversion kit. It is now 12-120 but works fine in macro mode at 12mm. Maybe it is the 87mm front element that makes the difference. I know they went to the 87mm front element to cut down on vignetting. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 (edited) Was that a / the difference with the Mark II ? I think I used both and there was that ~ 30mm limit in close focussing in both cases, but I won't swear to it. Anyway, an S16 mod certainly has to take rear coverage issues in to consideration. -Sam Edited July 25, 2005 by SamWells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Really? Do you recall what it can focus down to without the aspheron? (Some dealer told me I needed it to do macro). Thanks! Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 I hate "auto" anything.I don't like machines & computers making creative decisions for me, because they assume one "right" choice, which is often the exact rule I want to break to get a certain look. MP <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Amen to that. I'm curious why there are so many auto lenses for the Bolex though. Is it because they were designed for home movie type applications or what? Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted July 26, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted July 26, 2005 Is it because they were designed for home movie type applications or what? Steven <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Really? Do you recall what it can focus down to without the aspheron? (Some dealer told me I needed it to do macro). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since you have one and I don't you should tell me ! I got pretty close, I shot 19th Century optical toys with one once, zoetropes, praxinoscopes etc. I mean I was filling the frame with the moving images they made. Anyway when used with the Aspheron in macro mode (ie using the Aspheron requires it) it is focussing close to the front element. Besides, typically in macrophotography you *don't* want to do it at wide angles; the point of using a longish lens is to give you some working distance between your lens and the subject. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 Thanks. Actually, I don't have it yet it is en route. But I'm just impatient with curiosity. I have a preset macro 75mm I've been playing around with and that's pretty cool, but I was hoping if I got this new zoom I could sell that off. That film you were working on sounds like that newer Brothers Quay film... Ghost Museum? Forget the name. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 My previous feature Wired Angel might be closer to the Quay Bros (but it's not any kind of stop motion animation) than what I'm doing now, which is a series of films and an installation piece about Vietnam and (figuratively speaking) ghosts. Or do you mean the 19th Century optical toys ? That was a festival trailer/intro for the now defunct Bucks County Film Festival which was a festival in Bucks County PA and a touring festival also. They were very cool, those proto-cinema devices. The Festival wanted a traveling shot through the loft of the collector who owned them, and I wanted to fill the screen with the 'animation' of moving figures the praxinoscope produced. So I used a Bolex EL instead of my Arri so I could shoot the move @ 6mm and then the macros too - all with one lens (had to remove the Aspheron for the macro stuff, natch). But kept it simple. (I was at about f 8 or maybe f 11 on the toys anyway. Since no $ for HMI I used Rosco Thermoguard on the quartz lights, & kept them a safe distance). -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 I was thinking more about the optical toys. It almost sounded like it would have a Quay feeling even without the stop motion (close ups and such). Is there somewhere I can see Wired Angel? It looks interesting. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Is there somewhere I can see Wired Angel? It looks interesting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It hasn't been shown much outside it's run on the festival circuit. I'm thinking of doing a DVD release but I really want it out on HD-DVD or Blu-ray (1st choice). It's not as commercial as I'd hoped but I think there's an audience, certainly got some good notices. I've got to get a print of the optical toys trailer and do a transfer sometime. I always wanted to go back and shoot some more of them. I believe the AMMI in Long Island City,NY has a collection. They're a very non-digital moving picture experience :D -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Budden Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Sam, I keep running into you on Frameworks too. Well, if you have a spare copy of Wired Angel it on DVD, I could rent or borrow it. Steven PS. I like non digital moving picture experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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