Achieving contrast through photochemistry

[Deniz Zagra]

Is it still possible to achieve a high contrast interpositive and/or print with vivid colors through the photochemical process? I know that there used to be a stock called Kodak Vision Premier 2393 which had a higher silver content from the regular 2383 which assured contrast, crisper blacks and strong colors. Now that 2393 is gone, can one achieve the same look through the Vision 3 stocks and 2383? I read somewhere that one method, back in the day, was overexposing the negative then using a strong light source to print. What do you think?

Btw, do you think we will see a new print stock from Kodak? One that has finer grain, higher res, a wider color and dynamic range? Maybe in 20-30 years ?

[David Mullen ASC]

Intermediate dupe stock is not designed to have its gamma manipulated.

You could increase contrast by push-processing the film negative to some extent -- and you could try not underexposing to compensate for the push -- like pushing 200T by one-stop but rating it at 200 ASA (not 400 ASA) and letting it become one-stop denser than normal. It would then be printed down and cause a subtle increase in contrast; it might get you something closer to the look of Vision Premier print rather than a Vision print.

15 years ago, FotoKem had a demo of a very high-contrast look that they got, I think, by using print stock as a dupe element, I don't know if it was in the IP or IN step.

The Vision contact prints for my film, "The Love Witch" (2016), were pretty contrasty and saturated because I overexposed 200T stock by over a stop and printed down, like in the low 40s (25 is normal).  But that took a lot of light because I was basically working at 100 ASA and then opening up a bit more even after that. So I suggest trying the idea of pushing 200T by one-stop (or even test pushing by 2-stops) but not underexposing to compensate, just end up with a dense negative that has to use high printer light numbers.

[Deniz Zagra]

16 minutes ago, David Mullen ASC said:

The Vision contact prints for my film, "The Love Witch" (2016), were pretty contrasty and saturated because I overexposed 200T stock by over a stop and printed down, like in the low 40s (25 is normal).  But that took a lot of light because I was basically working at 100 ASA and then opening up a bit more even after that

Thanks David for the advice! I'll try to test both of those methods. I believe Eyes Wide Shut was pushed 2 stops and then printed down to achieve a contrasty print. I was lucky enough to see the film through an original print back in Christmas (Agfa Cp20 stock). Apart from the contrast, the colors were quite crisp as well. I saw "The Love Witch" a while back after you mentioned it somewhere else (loved it). It's interesting how different methods can yield contrasty films but with a completely different look. Of course, the stock is only one of the ingredients I presume.

Btw, why did you choose to go with 200T? Surely overexposing 500T by a stop would have made the lighting a bit easier, wouldn't it?

[David Mullen ASC]

The director did not want any graininess and she liked the idea of working at high lights levels like in the 1950s/1960s.

"Eyes Wide Shut" pushed 500T by two stops but rated at 1600 ASA instead of 2000 ASA, which is really just a 1/3-stop safety margin rather than consistently going for a denser negative. But I'm sure it helped. Dante Spinotti did something similar for "Red Dragon" (2002) -- I think he pushed 2-stops but rated 500T at 1000 ASA or 1250 ASA, so a bit more density.