Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

All of those clips are not 24p. Some are where the camera is in 60i mode. - ShannonRawls.com

Jason Debus asked for some in the other thread. Here's a few links: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57519 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56677 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56642 I hope that helps. - ShannonRawls.com

LOL hostility following me around? what on earth are you talking about? I was refering to what someone said about Canon and thier technology. And he wasn't even refering to someting I said, he was talking to Starway. LOL What are you talking about dude? LOOK....this is my FIFTH ATTEMPT at this David..... Can we talk about someting else? Like moviemaking? that's more interesting to me. (who will be compelled to keep this argument going by replying with some nonsense) - ShannonRawls.com - I'm building my post count so I can be accepted *smile*

David, For MY FOURTH ATTEMPT AT THIS.... Can we talk about something else? Like Camera stuff? that's more interesting to me. (i wonder who's gonna say someting this time to keep this flame burning?) - ShannonRawls.com

Why are people such Haters? I'll never understand that. - ShannonRawls.com

Jason, I don't have a server to stream it from. However, you can find plenty of snips and clips over at www.DVINFO.net. We are in the process of doing a 4-camera shootout. DVINFO will host the images and video. it's scheduled for next week. The HVX-200 just got in today and that's what we were waiting for. - ShannonRawls.com

click here: http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...indpost&p=82170 thats the 3rd reply in this thread. See the happiness in my words? See how cool I was? See how cordial I was? See how friendly and polite I was? Do you see how I did in fact do what you said I should have done? Looks like thats what I did David. So where's that "thanks for the info" reply you said you would have given me. Instead you proceeded to tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about, and your buddys jumped in to help you. But now... all of a sudden..... "I'm" the one pinned with having an attitude and antagonizing you guys?????????? WOW! Look...why don't everybody GO BACK to the beginning and re-read the order of things, and the words that were said. I don't come off as Anything, but I won't let you tell me one thing when I know it's someting else. if it ain't one thing, it's another. If I eneded up being wrong, you would all be here laughing at me. But since that's not the case and I was correct, you now wanna call me a know-it-all antagonizer with an attitude and saying its "HOW" i say things. WHAT?? LOLOL I guess I just can't win because I'm new here huh? LOL No problem. I'll stick around and build my post count up, and THEN i'll see if I am allowed to tell the truth about cameras around here. As a matter of fact... I EVEN APOLOGIZED TO YOU GUYS...like twice!! and even said "I may be wrong" when I knew I wasn't..(cause i was trying to be sociable) I even said I WAS WRONG and YOU'RE RIGHT before anybody esle did.....but I'm the one with an attitude???? lol what a joke. Why did I have to "back-up" anything with outside information. My word wasn't good enough? The tensions came because you guys didn't want to hear what I had to say. What? do you hate Canon or something? Some of you were arguing with me and praising the HVX200 and you don't even own one! What's up with that? It took the canon manual to end this conversation that could have been ended from the very first post. Not my fault that I knew the capabilities of the camera I own, and you didn't. But that makes me a know-it-all?? I'm the LAST PERSON to act like that, but if I do know someting...then what's wrong with me posting a post about it? Gee wiz. You guys are trippin' opver here. lol - ShannonRawls.com

Isn't that what I did? I exchanged some friendly knowledge in a post I started for tohers to read and learn. no harm no foul. and if someone is wrong they are wrong. What? I have to get to know y'all first before I can correct people around here? Even after I am told someting that "I KNOW" is not true? c'mon man. be real. anyhow....Stuart. So how's the weather in Bristol? (attempting to get to know you) - ShannonRawls.com Nope, I'm a PC guy (republican). *smile* Capturing 24f in PC is easy. For MAC you can use HDVxDV to capture 24f. Problem is, it will be an .m2t file and I don't think final cut can understand that file type just yet. - ShannonRawls.com

*hands up* What did "I" do?? All I said was 24f was great. David began cyber-smacking me around and I defended myself and had to prove I ain't no dumb punk. He ended up apologizing after I threw that last right hook. *smile* I feel like the kid who got blamed for shooting a spit wad at the teacher, because it 'looked' like it came from my direction. - ShannonRawls.com

David Mullen & friends, "Don't beleive everyting you read on the Internet" I have been preaching that for ages. Here's my last lesson on the 24f mode from Canon's XL-H1 HD camera: Other companies often claim allot and come up short therefore dissapointing their consumers. I beleive the reason Canon is laid back and quiet about the XL-H1 is because it's better to claim a little and show allot. Far too often have companies "Talked the Talk". But when it came time to "Walk the Walk" they tripped up and fell. I think Canon is letting the XL-H1's footage do the speaking for itself, but then you have people/moles with alternative motives who never even touched the camera out there writing bad reports and making up untruths about it. And then you go and read that report and take it for gospel. And for me atleast, it gets tiring to read people saying stuff when they have no idea of what they're talking about. So yes, I do jump defensive, I'm guilty of that. But don't knock it 'till you try it....that's all I ask. Be fair. I remember when they announced the HVX-200 about 10 months ago, it was the freakin' Holy Grail of cameras if you ask them. People were talking about it like it was the messiah coming to save their indie projects or something. C'mon, you remember too! *smile* It was crazy! I would be on set hearing these discussions at lunch about how it's the END ALL BE ALL of handheld camcorders. Now that it's here....all those people have somehow dissapeared. All of a sudden it's not so hot anymore. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE EXCITEMENT??? Where are all those people singing cultish chants and cow-towing for the coming of the HVX-200? And get this....I'm buying one myself as well! And the moment I hear someone say one thing that's not true about HVX-200 camera, I'm gonna jump down his/her throat as well! All I ask is to be fair and KNOW what you're talking about. Not what you heard or read on the net. Now David, I know you don't beleive anything I said about the Canon XL-H1 and its 24p recording capabilities. Everyone seems to keep putting words in my mouth about post production and all. Therefore, please allow me to copy/paste word for word what's printed on Page 56 of the official Canon XL-H1 owners manual. If this is not good enough for you, then I don't know what is: There you have it. Word for Word, unadulterated words from Canon themselves. Unlike the Sony HVR-Z1U that records 60i at all times (that I also own), the Canon does not do that. As I said before, the Sony, in ALL modes, will play on the Canon XL-H1 and the XL-H1 detects ALL MODES from the Z1U as 60i including CineFrame 24 & 30. The Sony will only play the Canon's 60i footage. it flashes "UNSUPPORTED FORMAT" if you try to play 24f or 30f footage.... Why is that?...because its RECORDED TO TAPE as 24p and 30p!!!!!! So tell me, what does the term "24 fps progressive" mean to you? Doesn't that mean 24P in your dictionary of abbreviations?? NO?????? You've got to be kidding right? Now David, I don't know if that's good enough for you. I surely hope it is. Not only does the manual say this...I have personally TESTED this by capturing footage with my Canon XL-H1 so I KNOW it is true. Now do you beleive that my original post is 100% correct? Now do you beleive that the Canon XL-H1 is a camera that records "24P"???? Please tell me you're not going to come up with something else to say to detour the issue at hand. Please don't start talking about the scanning of the CCD's and all that crap. Let's focus on the nitty-gritty. The IMPORTANT stuff...... ......Instead, let's talk IMAGE and how PRETTY this 24P(twentyFourPee) footage is that is recorded by the XL-H1... Please David? - ShannonRawls.com

That's because you don't own one, havent tested one, and simply just don't know David. and that's OK. I am telling you what you get from the camera, because I own one, tested one and I do know. If it only "recorded" 60i like the Sony Z1U does then it would play in the Sony HDV cameras and decks...But it DOES NOT. How do I know that.....because I own one of those too! The Sony, in ALL modes, will play on the Canon XL-H1 and the XL-H1 detects ALL MODES from the Z1U as 60i including CineFrame 24 & 30. The Sony will only play the Canon's 60i footage. it flashes "UNSUPPORTED FORMAT" if you try to play 24f or 30f footage.... Why is that...because its RECORDED TO TAPE as 24p and 30p!!!!!! I realize it will probably take someone you admire to tell you the same thing I am trying to tell you before you actually beleive it. So I guess we'll just have to wait until that day comes. Lord knows after reading allot of your wisdom on this website I surely know that you know what you're talking about.....but this time, you don't. So until someone you trust tells you later what I am telling you now, you can take my advice or leave it. - ShannonRawls.com

David, Are you kidding me? Thats all I said! *fainting* My goodness David, please read the "TOPIC" of this discussion thread. Please read the "FIRST" post that I made in regards to the topic. Everyting that was said is true! Every single word in the subject and body of the the #1 post of this thread is 100% absolutely TRUE. Why have we deviated from discussing that? It's YOU who went off topic along with a few others that 'went there' with off-topic stuff. As if you have some underlying agenda to prove Canon's inability to be a good camera or something. All I wanted to talk about was how 24f is as good or better then 24p and that you actually get 24p footage recorded to tape. That's ALL I EVER SAID IN THE ORIGINAL POST. Why didn't we stay on "topic"? because of YOU David Mullen ole' buddy ole' pal. *smile* Moreover, I have repreatedly tried to go BACK TO THE TOPIC by discussing the picture and 24f imagery....but NOOoooOO, you guys wanna still keep replying to the OFF TOPIC issue that you've created. *smile* It's like you yelling at me, and when I yell back, you ask me why am I yelling. lolol Nobody wants to talk about how wonderful the 24f footage is. You'd rather talk about how the camera scans the image at the CCD and all that OFF-TOPIC and EXTREMELY UNIMPORTANT stuff. How the canon xl-h1 scans the image is as unimportant as Panasonic not releasing the pixel count of the hvx200 ccd sensors! How the canon xl-h1 scans the image is as unimportant as JVC captures it's 24p footage How the canon xl-h1 scans the image is as unimportant as Varicam is not true High Definition at the sensors Does any of that stuff matter? NO... so long as the FINAL IMAGE is Gorgeous and True High Definition. But for some reason.....you have gone on a crusade to discuss how the canon xl-h1 scans the image and you have made it the most important thing in the world to talk about. Just forget how it's the best looking 24p footage available for under $55,000.....all you care to discuss is UNIMPORTANT STUFF. Can we stay on topic? Seems nobody has nothing to say if we do. Maybe it's a human trait. Forget the good, point out the bad. Don't praise little johnny for getting an "A" in mathematics on his report card, but if little johnny gets a "C" in gym class he's in big trouble and gets grounded and no allowance for a week. C'mon guys....be fair...at the very least. - ShannonRawls.com

No Josh, I never said anything about Canon XL-H1 shooting 60i mode creating 24p in POST Production. *sigh* Gee wiz, am I not perfectly clear? Why does everyone insist on changing the story and my words to have something to say? Go back and re-read for clarification. and now Josh...This XL-H1 forum is pretty dead, wouldn't you agree? *smile*all of 3 topics total before this one. It's just the Internet Josh. and being that this is the great "Cinematogrpahy" website, I figured Cinematographers come here for knowledge. So I gave some. Do you tell that to Barry Green when he posts knowledge at multuiple sites about the HVX-200? So why would you say that to me? Kinda unfair don't you think? I'm not trying to get anyone to 'bite' anything. It was dead here, I decided to talk. Anyhow, back on topic..... So Josh, what posts "over there" indicate interlacing artifacts? I'm curious. What 24p footage generated from the Canon XL-H1's 24f mode have you seen that showed you some interlacing artifacts?? Don't lie Josh. I wanna see it. (in my Poker voice) "I'm calling you on this buddy" *smile* Show me the footage that you seen shot in 24f that give you 1 ounce of interlacing artifacts. Otherwise, you should retract that statement and stop spreading untruths by typing it. It's that kind of mis-information that unsuspected DP's read when they come here to learn stuff. They'll take your word for gospel Josh, when in fact you never knew what you were talking about in the first place. Yes, it does look great. Yes, I wish you had one too. Yes, i'd love to come to phoenix to shoot your nexy film. *smile* - ShannonRawls.com

Checkmate.

*sigh* Tomas, You're right....I'm wrong. Can we talk about sometig else. P.S. Nice website and nice Reel! especially your MiniDV work. - ShannonRawls.com

For those that are silently reading this debate.....do you see what I am up against? Just talk....no facts......no proof. Just regurgitating what they read on the internet and have no factual proof or hands on experience with what they are talking about. _________________________________________________ Ok John Allardice, And your point is? LOL, ok, let me try and make this plain & simple...... HDCAM, DVCPRO-HD, HDV...its all High Definition. Now John....Hear me and hear me well. Make no mistake about what I am saying: I am flat out saying to you, that the Canon XL-H1 produces the best looking High Definition Picture of any camera that costs under $10,000.00 ever manufacturered for retail to consumers on this beloved Earth. This bold statement is coming from first-hand experience of my own. I hope there is no ambiguity in my statement. Now...Are you telling me that you disagree with that statement? because I read your post above mine, and it basically isn't saying ANYTING at all. LOL Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and not addressing my quoted statement. Would you like to counter that statement with your own? So what are you saying John? - ShannonRawls.com

Tomas, I am calm. This is the Internet. Anybody who actually gets mad or yells in front of their computer screen may need to log off and go watch some TV or something. *smile* I was using capital letters to enphasize how you were way off base with everythng I've said and seemingly still are. Even moreso now then before. It seems you are generalizing and exagerating my words to try and have a point. It's painfully obvious. Ok Tomas, since we are discussing the XL-H1 in the XL-H1 forum here at this wonderful website. Let's not discuss the GL1, GL2, XL1 or any other uncompararable cameras. Let's talk only about cameras that are remotely comparable to the Canon XL-H1, the XL-H1 itself and its capability of recording 24p footage to minidv cassette, calmly, agreed? Ok.... I know you said you have used an XL1 and XL2 and are commenting on Frame mode for the XL-H1. But do you own one? and have you ever seen/used the XL-H1. I don't think you do or have, but I may be wrong. Me personally, I happen to own an XL1s and a DVX100a. Also a Sony TRV17 a JVC DV500 a Sony Z1U and a Canon XL-H1. These are the cameras I know inside and out, up and down and all around. So when I speak on these cameras I'm not telling you what I heard or googled to read on the internet. Nor am I telling you what I've 'tried out' a few times. I'm telling you what I know. Now, are there any questions, concerns or reservations you have in regards to the Canon XL-H1 HD camcorder, it's method of recording 24p footage or the picture quality of that footage or anytihng you wish to know about? Talk to me. - ShannonRawls.com

David, You're right...I'm wrong. Can we talk about someting else. Let's talk picture and imaging Cool? - ShannonRawls.com

Then David, you agree that there is no TRUE 24p video camera, correct? If you beleive that, then I'll beleive that with you. How's that? Additionally David, nobody said anything about "Processing in Post" Hell, if thats the case then my little 1994 Hi8 handycam camera is really a TRUE 35mm Film camera since I can do a film-out with it if I want. *smile* Goodness, why do you guys insist on putting words in my mouth? To have a point? Just to argue? Listen........ I said "RECORDING" not post production or scanning is what defines 24P. And that's a FACT! undeniably! _____________________________ And Brian....*shakin' my head* News for Brian.... XL-H1 = 1/3, 1/6, 1/12, 1/24, 1/48, 1/60, 1/100, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000, 1/2000, 1/4000, 1/8000, 1/15000, and Clear Scan shutter speeds. Education is KEY! I know you didn't know that and you're taking wild guesses in this conversation to stay afloat. Hopefully you'll leave here learning someting you didn't know before. But it's ok guys. No problem. I'm not here to make enemies or argue even though you're summations are incorrect. Because we all know this is subjective anyhow.....There is no right or wrong answer....only opinion. I would love to stay and educate some more but there has to be better things we can talk about, like the picture quality the camera produces. How about that? Now, as professional DP's and Camera Operators (which your profiles say you are), Then tell me, what would you do: 1. Pick a HD camera that costs under $10k that scans progressive and creates an OK 24p picture or Pick a HD camera that costs under $10k that scans interlaced and creates the BEST 24p picture on the market? We can talk science 'till the sun turns into a white dwarf, but the proof is in the pudding, ageed? And the the fact is this Canon XL-H1 camera produces probably "THE BEST LOOKING" 24 progressive frames per second High Definition film-like motion and movie-like temporal color image for under $55,000.00 as of January 1st, 2006 and probably will retain that crown until a better 2/3" chip camera is released. Now, who challenges that statement? Forget about the nerdy mathematics of how it does it, let's get down to the nitty gritty----? The Final Picture. - ShannonRawls.com What on earth are you talking about? Are you guys even READING what I am saying, or are you so anxious to reply, you'll just say ANYTHING. Who said the XL1 frame mode looks the same or better then XL2?? Please scroll up with your mouse, and RE-READ what I said about XL1, GL1, GL2 frame mode. My god. Don't just argue with me to argue. Have something to stand on. - ShannonRawls.com

Yes Brian, you absolutely can. And as a matter of fact... MANY PEOPLE DO. Now.... here's the bigger question.....do they suck when making it? Many people will say YES! Is the cadence of the 30 crappy & blurry frames as nice as the 30p on, let's say, a DVX100a with a Leica Lens and correct shutter speeds? NO. Brian, Allow me to make it easier to understand... Ask yourself this... Are PAL DV cameras 25p or not? Simple question. *smile* - ShannonRawls.com

Brian, The term "Progressive Scan" IS determined by what happens on the chip. Yes...I know that. Thats why its called progressive scanning. nobody says the Canon will do proressive scan. I sure didnt. I am talking about "24P". The term "24P IS NOT determined by what happens on the chip. if that was the case, then the Sony F900 would not be called 24PsF They wouldn't even bother with that term.(get it?) They would simply call it 24P and we would never have ever heard the term 24psf. It would have been a non-existent phrase. HOWEVER, that's not the case. Sony does a progressive scan and STILL DOES NOT CALL ITS CAMERA a 24p camera. The term is used to define what is happening for the recording, not the scanning. Hence, an F900 is 24PsF. - Calling the XL-H1 24P (where P = 24 Progressively Scanned frames) is stretching it just a little bit. Yes, I agree. it would be a lie. But thats because you'll be using the term incorrectly. - Calling the XL-H1 24P (where P = 24 Progressively Recorded frames) is an absolute truth and uses the term 24p correctly. It all boils down to education and terminology. Knowing how things work and when to say what and how to say it. If 24P is determined by whats happening on the chip, then heck, technically there's no such thing as a TRUE 24P video camcorder. See what I mean? - ShannonRawls.com

I wouldn't call it "fake". if that's the case...then ALL 24P DV cameras are "Fake" if you want to get technical about it. Is Varicam "Fake HD" because it doesn't scan resolution to the specs of the ATSC's definition of what HD should be? 960x720 is hardly HD when it comes to the standard. However, because the Varicam 'ends up' at 1280x720 then we happily consider it HD, now don't we? Well, same concept here. 24p is not defined as what the camera Scans at the chips. It is defined as what the camera can record and provide you on Tape. (same as Varicam). So essentially, it is "TRUE 24p". it's not the process, it's the result. Sony CineFrame 24 is Suedo from beginning to end. Even the 24 frames that you get in the end on tape has interlaced judder frames in it. THis is not the case with Canon XL-H1. 24 solid progressive frames. - ShannonRawls.com

Hey David, Up late in L.A. like me I see. *smile* But naw...there's absolutely no pulldown involved when shooting HD on the Canon XL-H1. It's 24 progressive frames recorded to tape in the 60 stream. I beleive the repeat frames are simply discarded. I have captured HDV footage in 24f mode using CineForm Connect HD 2.1 (a wonderful program and highly recommended) and the Canon CONSOLE program. Both programs even bring the clips in at 23.976 progressive footage (no pulldown removed). Now in DV more, there is pulldown. Just like the XL2. And you can choose which type you want (2:3 or 2:3:3:2). But in HD, there's no choice, it's 2:3 discarding frames on tape. Disclaimer = I am wrong many times, this could be one of them. *smile* But one thing I do know....it's 24p on that tape when you ingest it to your computer. - ShannonRawls.com

Orignially I wondered why would Canon go backwards? From a proven and beautifull progressive scanning XL2 to an interlaced scanning XL-H1. Didn't seem to make sense why they would do that for the new (double the price) HD camera.... Well as more and more tests and footage is being released, I suppose it proves Canon is smarter then some people think because whatever the XL-H1 is doing inside is proving to be quite well. It does not scan progressively but it surely "RECORDS" 24p to the tape. To some XL2 owners, when in DV mode, they feel the image is even nicer in DV 24f then the XL2' is for DV 24p. Some would think it was because of the new lens. Others say the DSP or the chips. Who knows, but whatever it is...it's working. I'm just waiting for a film-out. - ShannonRawls.com