JD Marlow

Hi all,

I've got an HVX200 camera package that I've used for a few years that I'm now looking to move on from. It's a great camera with little to no wear and tear. The tape heads have had virtually no use over the camera's lifetime, as we've almost exclusively used P2 media for shooting.

Everything was purchased retail for over $8,000 altogether. But today we're only asking $2,200 or best offer for the following package:

Panasonic HVX200 Camera

Kata CC193 Camera Bag

3 x Panasonic CGA-D54s Lithium-Ion Battery

1 x Panasonic CGA-D54 Lithium-Ion Battery

2 x additional Battery Chargers with corresponding AC Adapters

1 x Panasonic DE-A20 Video Camera AC Adaptor

2 x Panasonic P2 E-Series 64 GB Card

2 x Panasonic P2 R-Series 16 GB Card

1 x Panasonic P2 4 GB Card

Composite Cable (Y/Bb/Cr) camera connector

Camera Strap

Operating Manual

3 x BNC to RCA adaptors

Remote Control with Battery

Mini-USB to USB-A Cable

If interested, PM me or please email me at jd@makedoproductions.com

Pictures are available if interested. Thanks so much!

I recently shot some footage, overcranking at 60fps at 720 24pN in a pretty low light situation. My scene files settings had the Chroma level up a bit, and the Master Pedestal down pretty far, but I was opened wide up and (according to the LCD) getting a bright enough image to work with.

I bring the P2 footage into Final Cut Pro today and see that the footage is TOTALLY dark. There's no detail where there was detail before, and the overall images are about 2 x darker than what I saw on my LCD screen.

My LCD screen levels for brightness and contrast remain unchanged and at middle levels. What am I doing wrong here? Why is there such a enormous difference between what my LCD sees and what is actually on the P2 media? Is this just because I was overcranking at 60fps perhaps?

The best electronic archival medium I am aware of is LTO tape. LTO4 is the latest generation. Each tape is 800gb native, 1.6tb compressed. The machines are fairly expensive, but the tapes are not too bad and go down in price all the time. It is also very fast, can read/ write at up 240MB/s.

 

I would still trust it over just about everything else, it has been the standard archival medium for a very long time, with an accepted lifespan of up to 30 years or so. To date, most LTO formats have been backwards compatible as well.

 

Kevin Zanit

I would agree that LTO is really the best for reliability, size, and speed. But assuming I can't afford an LTO drive, and I have no problem waiting overnight for a 50GB DL BD-R to burn, is there any better, less expensive option? I don't like how expensive BD-R's (much less BD-REs) are per disc, but they're obviously huge so they make themselves worth it over time.

I've also read contrary information regarding Blu-Ray discs that they don't use dyes like normal DVDs, so they have the potential to live longer. Has anyone else have solid info on the shelf life of DVDs or Blu-Ray discs?

I'm debating whether to invest in a nice large external RAID-1 array for storage and archiving of P2 material shot w/ my HVX200A. I'm also considering buying a Blu-Ray burner and archiving to single or dual layer BD-R disks. Any opinions? Has anyone tried archiving with Blu-Ray with measurable success?

Just bought my HVX200A -- looking for an economical, simple shoulder mount solution for hand held use -- nothing fancy.

I'm coming from the world of XL-2 shooting, so I'd love something comprable, even if that means having a LANC in remote on a handle of sorts. I've done some research only to find mediocre results. Anyone have a success story with this?

Hi Evan,

It really depends on what kind of system you're working with and what kind of turn around time you need. Assuming you're planning on Final Cut Pro editorial, you can:

1) use Quicktime Proxy files (unreliable if editing anything longer than a couple of minutes). Pro is realtime editing and no transcode.

2) Transcode to ProRes or ProRes HQ via L&T (will only use 1 core of your Mac -- so transcode can be up to 20:1 of realtime footage)

3) Import as Quicktime R3D native (still requires processing of proxies to playback, but you can transcode to ProRes after this from Compressor and take advantage of multiple cores that way.)

It is unfortunate that you're shooting Red only to end up on DigiBeta --- but since you are, you won't need anything better than a 1920x1080 ProRes. No R3D conform needed for this job.

I'm doing my first shoot on the RED camera this coming Thursday and I have one big question:

 

We're shooting a music video and it will end up on DBeta. So, from the moment we wrap and walk away with all the footage on hard drives, what is the 'best' way to get the highest quality looking footage on to those DBeta masters?

 

The production company has shot quite a few RED videos and they have a system in place but it seems like everyone and their mother has a RED post-flow in place and that the resulting quality can vary quite a bit... Anyone have opinions/workflows that they believe maximize the RED's potential?

 

Thanks,

 

Evan W.

 

P.S. - I've done quite a bit of reading and studyin' but if anyone has quick pointers I'd love to here them! :)

 

e.g., - set your meter to 320ASA and expose correctly; don't do the standard MV 1/2 - 2/3rd stop overexposure thing.

I see deals like this on the web:

HVX205A -- $2,649.00

http://www.zoommania.com/descript.asp?prodid=AGHVX205A

HVX205A -- $3,089.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-AG-HVX200A-A...%3A1%7C294%3A50

I know this is the "Japanese" version of the camera but with switchable English menus. I also know that Panasonic will not service this model in the US. Is it worth it to buy these heavily discounted models? Has anyone purchased them on the web? Do they work as well as the HVX200A?

Obviously the price is a huge draw considering the price of new P2 cards....

Yes it's true. The FS-100 must have firmware 4.0 to record P2 or QT Native. Final Cut Studio 6 is required for Quicktime Native.

It works well with my HDX900, but I always back up with tape. It is stable, but vibration can cause dropouts. The FireWire cable can get loose or unplugged.

 

You can pickup used FS-100 100Gb models for around $1K, so that's not much more than a single 16Gb P2 card, while having six times the recording capacity. I have two FS-100's and while I normally use P2 cards with my HPX170, it's a great option for a long form project.

P2 is more convenient as far as form factor, very reliable, but the FS-100 can be a viable option depending on the types of projects you do.

 

Jeff Regan

Shooting Star Video

www.ssv.com

Jeff,

I appreciate the post. I've been leaning very far over now to the P2 cards exclusively. I'm so afraid I'll be shooting with the FS and a drop out occurs, or the firewire gets unplugged, or the battery dies, etc.

I don't have the money to purchase P2 cards AND firestore --- but buying two 64 GB P2 cards (which is really what I need) is just far too expensive as well (at $2,500 per card!!). I own an HVX200a now, but with no firestore or P2 cards to go with it. I'm desperately hoping the 64GB card price drops in the next 6 months.

Perhaps I'm behind the times....but I've been reading different things here and there suggesting that the FS-100 Firestore drives for the Panasonic HVX200A can record to 720p Native now. So my questions:

1) Is this true?

2) If so, how effective is it? If the drive is removing duplicate frames upon record to achieve true 23.98, I feel like there must be plenty of room for cadence breaks / errors / drop outs when recording hours of continuous footage at once.....

Clearly if the FS-100 were a 100% effective device recording 720pN I don't think many people would be shelling out the same price for a 64GB P2 card. If this is the case, the 250GB version would also be capable of 11 HRS of 720pN record time! (w/ 4 channels audio record to boot)

So perhaps someone has some insight into the pros and cons between P2 and Firestore?

I'm trying to price out an HVX200A between going P2 or Firestore and this is really the big question for me if I end up going firestore or not.

Thanks everyone.

There are several possibilities:

 

- It was a faulty tape. Have you looked under the lid at the beginning of the tape? I wonder if the tape might be creased or have a crinkle on one side of the reel.. If the tape reel was poorly wound and one edge got nicked, this could explain the periodic drop outs.

 

- The recording heads (inspite of the fact that you cleaned them) picked up a bit of dust or oxide and then threw it off later. No real way to check this.. you just have to clean the heads again and hope.

 

- The deck playback heads are dirty. But if the drop outs are present in the same places no matter what deck you play it on, then this is probably not the problem.

Thanks for your answers. I have a feeling it's the tape itself as you described -- the drop outs occur in the same places when I play back.

Thank you!

Hi,

I shot an event last weekend with my Canon XL-2 --- I have owned this camera for almost 3 years now and have shot hundreds of hours of video on it. It's been incredibly reliable and I have never had any issues. I have always used the same brand of Panasonic Mini-DV tape and I clean the heads regularly.

However on the first 4 minutes of the SECOND tape that I used, there are horrible drop outs every 10 seconds or so. After those first 4 minutes, everything is fine.

Is there anything I can do to correct the drop outs on the tape (i.e. playback on different deck other than the camera?) or is this segment of the tape simply ruined, essentially?

Thanks!

Not anymore but I did do extensive side by side comparisons when the hype for the HVX was being shoveled and I can tell you conclusively that the marketing of the HVX being a 1080 camera is nothing more than marketing. Don't waste your time. It records the same image either way.

Thanks for all the insight Walter. Very helpful stuff.

Seems to me if one really wanted 1080p on the HVX it would make more sense to shoot 720p and go to a post house to uprez and output for a couple hundred bucks rather than waste the space and $$ on all the extra necesarry storage. You'd need a post house anyway to output to something like 1080p HDCAM or SR unless, for some reason, you own the deck hardware yourself.

Also, you ought to save space and record in 720p mode. The HVX makes the same picture in both 720 and 1080 modes except in 1080 it records far more infomration that it outputs. It's really a waste and you gain little in 1080 mode.

I've always been a little skeptical of recording 1080 on the HVX, both because of space consumption and because we're already shifting pixels to get to 720 from a 960x540 sensor.

However, I'm wondering how the actual images compare. Do you know of any screen grab comparisons between a 1080 and 720 image on the HVX?

Gus,

 

Thanks for that link -- that looks like just what one would need to cheaply download P2 material. I assume it will hook up to the newest Mac Pro's...

 

Didn't know about the 2 min. limit on 1080 clips. Does that have to do with the drive formatting (i.e. is it running as FAT32 w/ 4 GB file limit??) Based on everything I've read about P2 and FS-100, I'm guessing it will just overlap into a new clip for continuous recording? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems I answered my own question:

http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150

Thanks for all the info guys.

I had a minute...

 

Duel can wait for now, Addonics makes this for desktop (and a cheaper adapter for P2 work with Express slots as well)

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/pcmcia/aemk35cb.asp

 

Thatll do it for 95 bucks :)

Gus,

Thanks for that link -- that looks like just what one would need to cheaply download P2 material. I assume it will hook up to the newest Mac Pro's...

Didn't know about the 2 min. limit on 1080 clips. Does that have to do with the drive formatting (i.e. is it running as FAT32 w/ 4 GB file limit??) Based on everything I've read about P2 and FS-100, I'm guessing it will just overlap into a new clip for continuous recording? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

" What is the failure rate of the Firestore in the field (or at the edit table for that matter)?"

 

I've owned one for two years and haven't lost a piece of footage. When you become accustomed to simply pressing record without having to worry about changing tapes and/or cards, you realize what a gift to recording this is. I've dropped mine down steps, banged it, etc. Still ticking.

 

" For run and gun documentary-style hand-held shooting, is the firestore really an impedence for the shooter "

 

Could be more for a small form factor such as a HVX. Simple belt clip and you have it on your side. You can mount it easily on the camera but for hand held, this might not help balance the camera as well. The old version weighs a pound. The new version half that and far smaller.

Walter,

Thanks for the info. I've been leaning toward the 250GB FS-100 because I simply can't afford P2 card AND a Firestore -- like you said, the Firestore simply holds more. I would want to use the 16GB P2 that it comes with as a backup in the field -- but it was simply a matter of cheaply being able to download that P2 footage.

Anyway thanks again -- if you have any additional HVX suggestions / experiences / anecdotes you're willing to offer I'm all ears (or eyes, I guess). I'm coming off being a longtime XL-2 user and am a little worried about not having shoulder mount with an HVX....

-JD

I really dislike the Firestore when ACing. It's bulky and can be unreliable. I much prefer solid-state, when there's really no opportunity for there to be a hardware glitch (or software - ala the Firestore). It's just kinda fragile and I don't like it.

 

Plus, you do not need to spend 1900$ on a card reader. a Duel Adapter is 120$, but I guess if you're getting a desktop... well, you probably could get an Express Slot installed in it.

Gus, I haven't read anything about Express Slots or a Dual Adapter -- I'll look into it.

As for the bulky nature of the Firestore I have two questions for anyone who has had experience with it:

1) What is the failure rate of the Firestore in the field (or at the edit table for that matter)? Basically, how reliable are they? My only reservation about it really is the fact that it is a hard drive that I'm walking around with.

2) For run and gun documentary-style hand-held shooting, is the firestore really an impedence for the shooter (much less the AC, if there is one)?

Thanks guys.

Hi everyone,

I've been doing my research on pricing out an HVX200a (as well as a new Mac Pro system) -- all in all, between the HVX and the new Mac Pro I think I'm looking at a $19,000 - $20,000 investment (This Mac Pro I've priced out is superloaded with internal RAID drives and comes out at about $10,000). Anyway, the reason I'm posting is to ask about the most effective way to purchase a new HVX.

For anyone that has used the HVX with a FireStore (FS-100), how does this compare to the P2? I ask because I'm interested in doing one or the other -- either buying up a 32 GB P2 card or two, or just buying a 250 GB FS-100. It seems to me that buying the 32GB P2 would be around $1500, and the 5-slot card reader (which is the only quality reader within reasonable price) for another $1900 isn't all that worth it in terms of value versus the FireStore.

What have others done when purchasing an HVX on a budget? (I should add that the primary use of the camera would be for documentary shooting).

Any opinions? Thanks!

Hi,

I'm an editor working on a project shot with an HDV JVC camera (assuming it was the 200U, but don't know for certain). I have these Mini-DV tapes -- AY-DVM63AMQ -- and I'm unable to play them back on anything. I don't have the camera handy, but I've tried playing them back on 2 different Professional DV decks, as well as my Canon XL-2 (which I had a feeling wouldn't work anyway).

Any idea as to why this might be? There definitely is video on the tapes...although one deck seemed to think there was no signal at all. Thanks everyone.

-JD

Yep, that would be the case. But thinking about this, any really strong magnet should do the trick. Just put your tape in close proximity and check whether the data is gone. I think that's the way the pro tape erasers do it as well. Just keep that magnet away from other sensitive stuff!

 

Cheers, Dave

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'll have to think about what to actually do, considering the material on the tapes. The tapes are B-Roll from Car Manufacturers that I edit short online spots for. Since I no longer need the source footage I've just been building up piles of tapes that I no longer need. It would be nice to be able to sell them off...I'm not really sure who would benefit from having old car manufacturer B-Roll on Betacam SP tapes.

-JD

Hm, best give them away to some young video/filmmakers who are in need of tape stock? I mean, these are normally reusable after erasing them. Or some non-profit that does its own films... don't know which ones do that... Greenpeace?

 

Cheers, Dave

Thanks Dave.

If I were to erase the tapes -- what's the best way? Just Black them and record over the whole thing with a blank screen? How many times can a Beta SP tape be used effectively before real generation loss?

-JD

Hi everyone,

I have a large batch of old Betacam SP tapes that were used for jobs of the past. Now I no longer need them and they are cluttering up my office space. Anyone have an idea as to the best way of recycling them? I don't want to just chuck them in the garbage.

-JD

Hi,

It looks like the problem from my original question was the pullin from original capture. I had a mask covering the keycode on my source footage, but when I looked back on it I was getting: A, B, B, D -- instead of the correct A, B, C, D that denotes a correct pullin. The deck I used to capture all my source footage, as it turns out, is very old and does a poor job of capturing on the correct pullin frame.

It look 4 hours to re-batch capture and export but my footage finally looks normal upon a SAME AS SOURCE export. Thanks for your help everyone! I hope others can learn from my mistake.

-JD

P.S. For proper DVD export I conformed the 24 fps quicktime file to 23.98 using Cinema Tools, then encoded to MPEG-2 in Compressor on a 23.98 progressive setting. Plays perfectly on my progressive scan DVD player.

This is a little out my territory, but could it be a problem with the authoring of the DVD? Be sure that you're creating a true 24P DVD and not a 60i.

I think that is part of the problem. I'm trying to export a Progressive, natively 23.976 fps Quicktime file from the Avid Timeline, then compress to MPEG-2 progressive as well. But even using those settings in Compressor gives me, what DVD Studio Pro thinks is a 29.97 file. What I'm really looking for is a solution to the MPEG-2 believing this is 29.97 interlaced video, because it's not. That, I believe, is where this motion jittering is coming from on the progressive scan DVD player...

-JD

Hi,

I've been desperately trying to export from Avid Media Composer a Beta SP capture quality (2:1) of my telecined 35mm film project. I'm working on a 23.976 timeline meant for going back to neg cut and print. But I'm simply trying to create a basic "Screener" copy of the film before I go back and telecine to an HD format.

However, every time I export from the timeline SAME AS SOURCE and play on my DVD player (it's progressive scan) I get horrible motion artifacts all over the place sourcing from interlaced lines. It was suggested to me that I export LOWER FIELD FIRST, but there is no option for that, as the video is not in 29.97. It's natively progressive at 23.976 on the timeline, and I believe it's the source of the problem here...although I could be wrong about that. There must be a way to export 23.976 progressive SAME AS SOURCE in this way and not have this problem with interlaced lines and motion artifacts...does anyone have an idea?

-JD