VOlodya VO

OK, let me start by getting the defensive part out of my system. I have read Stanislavski, and studied with Sharon Carnicke, the premier re-translator of his works into English. I have also read Chekhov, and studied with Mala Powers, a former student of Chekhov and (at the time) the executrix of his literary estate. I have also read Hagen, Meisner, Whelan, Mamet, and a host of others whose names aren't coming to me off the top of my head. In point of fact, I have a degree in exactly this subject.

 

The job of the director is to unify the creative visions of all the different creative minds on a production into a single, coherent film. Hence my advice of "communicate what you need and then let them do it," rather than "tell them how to do their job."

 

There's a big difference between me saying to a D.P., "I'm going for a very gritty, raw feeling, with lots of grain" versus me saying, "O.K., I want you to use Kodak 5294 and push process it two stops, and here are your lighting positions." DP #1 may agree that that's the best way to get a very gritty, raw feeling, but DP #2 may just be dumbfounded and/or insulted. It's the same with actors. Don't tell an actor how to act. Tell an actor what you need. If you find you've hired an amateur actor who can't do what you need, then you can decide if you have time to give acting lessons on set, but on a professional set, you're just wasting time if you start out that way.

Exactly!!! "Don't tell an actor how to act. Give him a KEY to what you need" There is no need to explain each step as in your examle with DOP!! And no need to tell final result also. Only KEY to this result! And to reach it - is an actor job.

Thats what Weston trying to say. Dont tell "be funny" but CREATE funny circumstances.

I think this is the best way to work with actors.

Switching to my "professional actor" hat briefly, I don't feel that the actors are more important than the other aspects of filmmaking. If I give an amazing performance that is underexposed, on an inappropriate set, with lousy sound, badly costumed, mis-edited, poorly lit, with a huge scratch running across my face -- well, I'm not winning any Oscars. I would much rather have to self-direct and know everything else is going to be done competently.

 

But, back as a producer-director, the thing I don't like about Weston's book is that she seems to think that all actors work the same way, and the way she teaches is used by a distinct minority of professional actors. If you want to know how professional actors work, you're much better picking up an acting textbook -- or, rather, several dozen, representing the various schools of thought -- than a directing textbook. Just like there's a dozen ways the art department may build a platform, there's a number of ways for an actor to get to get to the end result you need. Your actor may use Method, Chekhov, Meisner, Alexander, Suzuki, Technical, etc. Any book that tries to tell you "how actors work" is either going to be so broad as to be useless, or miss out on the explaining the majority of actors you will encounter in your career.

 

Weston also believes in holding the actors hands rather than just saying what end result you need. A professional actor is trained to show up on time, deliver the performance as quickly and consistently as possible based on "result-oriented direction," and get out of the way of the other departments, allowing the director to focus on the entirety of the production. It's drilled into us over and over again that at several thousand dollars per minute of production time, the director simply can't take the time to walk us through things. So when a director declines to say what end result they're after and instead fishes around for personal metaphors, the actor either feels like the director is an idiot, or feels that the director thinks they can't act. Not a good relationship to have with your cast.

 

This book is probably excellent if you're working with students all trained in the same facility using the techniques she believes all actors use who still need the handholding, but, really, on a professional set, where time is money your best bet is to break her cardinal rule and give result-oriented direction, and then only spend the time getting "actory" when the actor is having trouble.

very strange opinion!

"professional DOP knows how to shoot, actor - how to play, producer - how to produce etc etc...."

So -what DIRECTOR do!? ;)

If you want to have a good film, you must learn HOW to give playable tasks to actors!! Thats what Weston told you! If you speak a lot about "time is money" you MUST know how to get result quickly, realistic and ORIGINAL!!! "Original" - is the main word! And "result-oriented direction" is stupid because anybody can do this! This is waste of your money!!!

By the way - giving playable tasks not depends on which method you choose! Method - is actors problem.

p.s.

If you think that your "time is money" read Stanislavsky, Chechov BEFORE giving advices at forums;)

For me - it was VERY interesting to know that in Hollywood there is no DIRECTORS shooting script as we have in our country.

Look at this discussion and post:

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...st&p=186078

So! My question is -

1. what is the name of the document where filmdirector writes his ideas about camera angles ( (close-up, LS, etc) and

2. what is the name of the document where each scene have support info about using of the dolly, crane etc.

It will be very nice if you have some links to these documents in html or pdf.

Thank you!

Chris

This is very interesting question. For me - the film is like a music - it is very important to feel the rhythm. When you shoot only one scene - you want to make it the most beautiful scene in your movie, so you are trying to push up the tempo. But it is a mistake, because directors job is to fill the whole movie, not only this episode. And maybe in the whole movie this scene should be a little bit slower.

So. Duration is like a notes. You plan your "visual impacts".

Anybody tell me - how you plan your movies? If not with directors script?

So here's a sample from a live-to-tape, multi-camera show that I was the lighting designer on. As you can tell, it's very similar to what you displayed.

And in Movies!?

Our directors script is useful because there is info about SHOTS (MS or LS etc), about duration (because dialogue rhythm depends from directors style), there are directors notes column, music and FX - and ALL this info at one page!

Directors script is the main job before you starts the movie and it helps producer to understand your ideas, it helps to Supervisor or other members of creative team to understand what exactly you want from the film. Yes, it is not all info about the film, only basics but this is really "see your film before shooting", not just script with scene numbers.

So. I am trying to understand - how Hollywood directors prepares for their films.

This is very similar to what is used in theater and, to a lesser extent, in a mutli-camera television show.

In theater? It is interesting. Maybe you have some scan examples or pdf?

Hal Smith

Thanks for your interest!!

I think the script that Supervisor do - is a lined script. Am I right? Some sort of a script with strange looking:) vertical lines (like waves) with a lots of notes etc.

About directors script.

For me, it is really amazing that you dont have such kind of the script. I was sure that you have this (or near this form) because it comes to Russia exactly from Hollywood long time ago.

It is really hard to work with usual script (with scene numbers) or with huge amount of technical notes at the stage for me. How you do it?!

Directors script is useful. I made it from A4 paper (because it is europian standard) but you have a better way - legal paper format. It is bigger in width so you might use it also for storyboard or making bigger columns with ACTION and DIALOGUE.

And I saw something like that not long ago when trying to find a software for filmdirectors. Look at this screenshot

http://homepage.mac.com/directors_notebook.../pages/004.html

Thats why I was sure that you have exactly this form in movies.

So. How you plan your movie visually? Maybe you have your examples?

Here it is.

This is very liberal translation to English. Excuse me for possible mistakes.

Maybe "form" is not a good word. (Excuse for my English)

But cinema process is always a SYSTEM. Expecially in big movies.

For example - scripts have format rules and nobody tells you that it is a "goverment bureau".

It is also a creative process, isnt it?;)

Chris.

It would be nice if you tell me about your way or about ways you see from different directors.

Maybe some pdf or link?

And it would be nice if someone helps me to find what ways different directors use.

Thank you.

ps.

By the way - the form that I post in previous message is also "for professionals" and it is really useful.

It HELPS you to create.

Maybe you have something better. This was my question.

Hello!

I try to find directors shooting script example in the internet but find only:

a ) screenplay (with scene numbers)

b ) lined script

c ) continuity script

d ) and many other production documents...

I have a question to professional filmmakers in Hollywood - do you have shooting script form for film directors!?

In our country we have this form:

http://www.screenwriter.ru/info/director.rar

I try to translate columns from left to right:

frame number / duration / storyboard (sometimes it is separate document)/ scene (like INT.ROOM-DAY)/ camera shot (LS, MLS, close-up with pan etc) / action / dialogue and FX / directors notes.

Usually this is A4 page (album) with vertically columns with this names at the TOP of the page.

And what do you have? Trying to find something similar but found only "camera shot list". But this is not directors script exactly.

Thank you!

Dear Moderators!

Please delete this post http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...st&p=179010

because the next is the same. I just fix the problem with the huge pictures!

Thankyou

p.s.

Still waiting for advice about a book...

Where I can find a good professional book about PLANING film in details?

The complete discussion is here

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...mp;#entry178940

...but I post this question in general discussion because this info is not only for directors.

Thank you!

They could have done it single-camera, but TV these days is usually shot with two-cameras, so probably 1a and 1b were shot at the same time, same as 2a and 2b (B-camera to the right of A-camera on #1). The 2c was just a tighter pick-up (another take with a tighter lens.)

But you could do this with one camera and more set-ups.

 

With a space that big, you scout the location or see the set and make a plan with the Gaffer to light the whole thing in advance of showing up, with a pre-rig crew. Then all you have to do is concentrate on lighting the closer shots on the shooting day.

David.

Where I can find a good professional book about PLANING this process in details?

With the guide - who is responsible and for what (pre-rig etc), about all these process that you just described (2 cameras, scouting locations, maybe examples of shooting plans etc).

Thank you!

Thank you very much, David!!

Some more questions (if you dont mind. This is very important for me!)

1. What is the best way to shoot this 3 points of view?

a ) 2 cams side by side shooting only one hero: 1cam-1a, 2cam-1b?

b ) 2 cams situated at opposite sides and shooting both heroes: 1cam- 1b, 2cam-2c (or something like that)?

c ) just one camera shooting one hero -1a,1b etc (all points and then - another)?

2. How many takes for each shot? What do you think?

3. Storyboard is needed to plan all this or not?

4. You said about 360-light. When they correct it for closeups and something like that?

The speed of shooting the modern Shows is great but quality of DOP is also good.

How to shoot it in a such a quickly way?

Maybe you know some good books for professionals about "planing and shooting primetime series"?

Iam a filmdirector but in our country we have different traditions of shooting...so I need some material which helps me to PLAN all this dynamics.

Thank you very much, David!!

Some more questions (if you dont mind. This is very important for me!)

What is the best way to shoot this 3 points of view?

a) 2 cams side by side shooting only one hero: 1cam-1a, 2cam-1b?

B) 2 cams situated at opposite sides and shooting both heroes: 1cam- 1b, 2cam-2c (or something like that)?

c) just one camera shooting one hero -1a,1b etc (all points and then - another)?

2. How many takes for each shot? What do you think?

3. Storyboard is needed to plan all this or not?

3. You said about 360-light. When they correct it for closeups and something like that?

The speed of shooting the modern Shows is great but quality of DOP is also good.

How to shoot it in a such a quickly way?

Maybe you know some good books for professionals about "planing and shooting primetime series"?

Iam a filmdirector but in our country we have different traditions of shooting...so I need some material which helps me to PLAN all this dynamics.

Hello!

A little task for professional directors and very good lesson for me (I want to know - how many cameras - one camera or multi, they shoot one actor (closeup, middle shot) and then another actor or not etc).

It would be great if you post here some sort of the DIRECTORs SHOOTING PLAN of these scene.

For me -there is a simple scene for actors but many cuts and different shooting angles...so I want to know how to shoot all this optimal way - what to shoot first, and what - second.

Thanks.

p.s. This is scene from HEROES. Abstract scene. Please dont delete it. I post it only for studying!!!!

And Rabiger? Also for beginers?

Thanks for books about "directing actors". Here, in Russia we have very famous Stanislavsky and Chehov theatre metodics. But there are no methods for working with actors in movies! No books or textbooks at all.

And we havent any literature about multicameras. I know- this is a big problem for our filmmakers - how to organize several cameras at the stage and how to reach maximum results. Thats why - I ask you about it. I saw a film about "ABC LOST - Making a PILOT". Not a big budget or technologies, but very smart use of several cameras gives good result! So I want to know - how to place cameras not just "correctly for editing", but how to place them to reach superb results, dynamics!

Maybe - you suggest good, modern and not simple books for the art of editing?

Believe me - I have some experience as editor and director, but I want more, something like master-class.

Thanks for your interest to this topic. And once again - excuse me for bad English.

to Mike Rizos

Thank you! I just got Arijon book! It is very verynice! but for me - I think - first of all this book is for beginners. This is some sort of fundamental knowledge. But now I want a little bit more.

"Shot by Shot" - is similar? And the sequel - Katz`s "Cinematic Motion"? What is the difference between his 2 books?

And thanks for William Bayer!!!

Ryan Bennett

You right! I dont like books with simple formulas. But I think that my level is not so good for TVshows for example. So I try to find some info about multi-camera directing etc. Thank you very much for your advice!

Thank you! I have Arijon book! It is very nice, but for me - I think - this book is for beginners. This is some sort of fundamental knowledge but now I want a little bit more.

"Shot by Shot" - is also that sort of a book? And the sequel - Katz`s "Cinematic Motion"? What is the difference between these 2 books?

Thank you for your advices, but I still need answers about my other questions:

3.!!! Camera movement in the scene. How to reach max dynamics.

5.!!! A multi-camera method of shooting. How cameras settle down?

7.!!! Director's technologies of shooting a primetime series, shows (as «LOST»)

and also these questions:

4. Director's «development» of a scene on known examples (famous films).

6. Work with the Art Director in film. How to achieve a picture without superfluous elements.

What books tells about these topics?

And, of course, is there any sites and forums expecially for film directors? Like cinematography.com for DOP?

Thanks for your quick answers!

"Directing Actors" and "Directors Intuition" by Judith Weston are two different books. What is the difference between them? I should buy both?

About Rabiger - I know, that he wrote about documentaries. And this book is about movies?

My questions - from 3 to 7. In what books it is possible to read about it? Of course, my interest is in books not for beginners but for the advanced level.

Where are these topics discussed in the Internet? Is there any sites for the film directors?

Hello!

I have finished cinema institute in Russia as a film director. Id like not to stop my education and to adopt a wide experience of the American cinematographers.

My question is:

What books, textbooks are for the film directors already having some knowledge in given area?

Especially interests:

1. Working with the actors in movie and all info about it. What actor's «system» the American actors work etc?

2. How to direct rehearsals with actors?

3. Shooting of dialogues.

3. Camera movement in the scene. How to reach dynamics in one scene.

4. Director's «development» of a scene on known examples (famous films).

5. A multi-camera method of shooting. How cameras settle down in action scenes?

6. Work with the Art Director in film. How to achieve a picture without superfluous elements.

7. Director's technologies of shooting a primetime series, shows (as «LOST»).

I ask here, as we do not have American film-textbooks on sale - therefore before buying in internet, it would be desirable to know what of numerous books tell about the given themes most in detail. Excuse me for my bad English:)

I shall be grateful to advice. Also I wish to learn, what sites can be esteemed on the given subjects. Thank you

Hello, friends!

I search for the information and the literature on - how to shoot correctly with multi-camera method (especially battle scenes).....

1. correct layout of cameras (arrangement - what to shoot - long-shot, close-up e.t.c.)

2. organization of shooting (sequence)

For example - battle scenes in Lord of the Rings - may be you know??

Thank you (and sorry for my bad English:)

Hello, friends!

I search for the information and the literature on - how to shoot correctly with multi-camera method (especially battle scenes).....

1. correct layout of cameras (arrangement - what to shoot - long-shot, close-up e.t.c.)

2. organization of shooting (sequence)

For example - battle scenes in Lord of the Rings - may be you know??

Thank you (and sorry for my bad English:)