Jim Feldspar

There's no single way to do it. You just make sure that your post path can accommodate what your production methods give it.

 

You don't have to shoot film at 29.97 fps. In fact, you lose part of that "film look" when the frame rate gets away from 24. Shoot at 23.976 (23.98) fps with a crystal synch motor and you'll be fine. 24.00 fps film actually gets transferred to video at 23.976, which is where the audio drift comes in. You'll have to either cut around it, or change the speed of the audio slightly in post to compensate. 29.97 fps film should not drift (with a crystal synch motor), but 30.00 fps will.

 

The HVX-200 records all of its 24P modes actually as 23.976, so you're covered. No need to shoot 30P (29.97) unless you just like the look.

 

For audio playback you can use whatever you like, as long you have some reference between the audio and the footage for synching in post. CD's on their own don't provide any visual reference, so they're not much good when shooting film. When shooting video though, you can record the audio playback to the camera (by onboard mic or line-in) as a reference track for editing.

 

A good low-budget alternative to a "smart slate" is to create a playback video from the audio in Final Cut Pro, displaying the TC prominently in the video. You can play back this video file as a Quicktime on a laptop, or put it on a video ipod as a closeup/insert slate. When shooting film that will be transferred to 29.97 video, create a 29.97 video file for the correct TC. When shooting 24P"N" on the HVX-200, create a 23.98 video file for the playback. In both cases, it's good to include at least 10 seconds of preroll before the song starts.

 

Thanks, Michael, that's a big help. If I could follow up, when talking about the audio drift I would have

to compensate for the differnce between 24 f.p.s. and 23.976 which is -.024 so would it be a simple

adjustment of speeding up the audio in post by .001001% (the percent from .024/23.976) if I'm

understanding how to do the math. Also, I'd have to see how to do that in Final Cut Pro. I guess that

I'd select speed and add the extra to the default 100% ?

At this point, due to other things, not math phobia, it looks like we'll probably use the HVX-200. That's

a great suggestion to have the video/audio reference on the the laptop and thanks for posting the

picture. I want to make sure I understand it correctly.

1. In Final Cut Pro timeline, put ten seconds of black then load song and have timecode play in

video section of 23.98 timeline created when song is loaded.

2. Shoot screen with timecode providing a slate that corresponds to

song. If already into song, start ten seconds before desired shot.

Call "action."

3. Record playback as reference track and match shots after capturing to existing timeline.

4. However, unless I use the laptop for playback audio on set (not sure how to do that loudly enough)

how does shooting the playback video provide a useful reference. It seems that I would have

to be playing audio from that exact timeline when shooting but I'm not sure that's what you

suggest.

If you could clarify, I would greatly appreciate it.

I've shot sync sound at 24 f.p.s. but I've been told that many music videos use a motor

that is controlled to run at 29.97 f.p.s. to match television, at least SD t.v..

1. Is there a desired frame rate for shooting music videos in which the artist is lip syncing?

2. What is a good playback system for reference for the artist to lip sync and for recording as

a scratch track? Would a standard C.D. boombox be reliable or could it vary enough to not

match the song when it's dropped from a file into the editing timeline?

3. I was told that sometimes the cameras (set to 29.97) deviate after a minute or two of

continuous running. Not that I'm planning such long takes for a three minute song

but is this so?

4. If we decided to shoot using say an HVX-200 would the same issues apply and would we

benefit from shooting 30P rather than our preferred 720P 24N or 720P 24P?

Thanks.

24PN is fine don't worry about it. I always have shot 24PN and I've never had a problem. I'm on FCP 5.0.2 an it runs great.

 

24P (60fps) is pretty much only to match the Varricam's frame rate, so that you don't have two seperate frame rates in your Final Cut Sequence. If you've not using a Varricam then don't worry about 24P, shoot 24PN.

- Greg

THANKS a lot guys! I'm much reassured and going to bed! (well, after packing and going over the shot

list...)

Thanks for all your help everybody on my questions this week.

I'm going to shoot 720P 24 but I'd like to shoot 24N because it gives me

20 minutes on an 8GB card. I'm going to edit on Final Cut Pro 5.12.

I haven't edited 24P footage before. Is there anything that I should know

before committing to 24N tomorrow?

I know I should have this all figured out and tested by now but I've been

scrambling to do a lot of other stuff due to no art dept., audio dept.,p.a.s., etc..

Thanks!

Thanks for all the advice.

I have to do this shoot Sunday because the actors will be unavailable thereafter for quite a long time.

However, it's simple lighting of a conversation in one room and only a couple of pages so probably

the best situation if I use the camera to send the P2 data through Firewire to the new Lacie hard drive

I got today.

DVCPRO 50 sounds good. Longer record times and good quality, plus possibility for variable frame rates.

However, I've heard that stuff shot in HD looks better when converted to SD than anything shot in

SD (with of course good lighting, camera, etc.)

Is that accurate? Is it better to shoot HD even to make an (ultimately) SD product look better?

There is a possibility of this being projected at festivals, as it will be submitted, but projected digitally.

We're certainly never going to film out. Would shooting HD help here and how so?

This would be my first time editing HD in Final Cut Pro. Is there anything I need to know about

shooting 720P 24N as opposed to one of the 24P over 60 modes? 24N sounds great and I'd like

to do it and I've read that the quality is superior to other 24 modes but what should I know before

I commit?

I have a MacBookPro which won't accept P2 cards and runs Final Cut Express so I can't capture

the 720P 24 HD footage with it. (The Final Cut Pro system that I can use is in a room and not portable.)

I bought the Lacie so I won't be spending any more money this week. I have to learn how to play

the P2 footage from the camera to the hard drive, how to format the hard drive, how to verify

that the clips have been captured (verifying adds more time to this I understand) and then how to

"erase" (is that right?) the P2 card. I'm doing a lot of preproduction and certainly don't want to be in

this multi hat position again but these things seem possible to learn in order to get this shoot

accomplished. Anytghing special you can clue me into as I test tomorrow?

THANKS!

I have a shoot Sunday that cannot be rescheduled. I have an HVX-200 with 8 GB card

but was supposed to also have Firestore and workflow tech. person. Now, I have neither.

I can shoot tape if I have to but what about these options?

1. Shoot to P2 and buy a Lacie (I can swing a couple hundred $) 80 GB or 100 GB and offload

to that via Firewire when card is full. I'll have to learn how but I've read up a bit and it seems

doable.

2. Shoot to P2, then downconvert to Mini-DV and re-use card? What's the difference between that

and capturing HD footage and editing and then downcoverting to SD for DVD copies? If I shoot

P2, downconvert and then capture that tape, in either case it's going to be SD DVD as the

final product.

3. I have heard that one can shoot P2 and tape simultaneously (using tape SD copy as a back-up)

but in reading the manuals this does not look possible. It seems to be an either/or situation.

Anybody know?

Thanks!

Wow that is a pretty thorough list, you've been reading the ASC manual haven't you? Hah, jk.

 

If you are using a color temperature meter and matching the color light with the appropriate stock you should theoretically have indistinguishable sources.

 

However I think that humans are incredibly sensitive to light, and more so to differences, even if its subconsious people can tell subtle differences.

 

Some DP's only shoot tungsten stock w/o filters and correct in post/lab. Some older DP's I've known dispise HMI's and only shoot filtered tungsten. Probably not all the time but when they feel its right for the look.

 

Also shooting tungsten and correcting with an 85 introduces more glass and you obviously lose light. Adding filters changes the look more than just the color IMO, it diffuses and can really screw up lens hits. Perhaps on a bigger Panavision shoots things are different.

 

In my experience HMI's can look a little cold, and their tendency to slip into green/blue spectrum is not flattering to caucasion complexions. But if you are being a diligent gaffer and labelling and correcting each HMI then you should be fine.

 

I worked on a sound stage film where they used HMI for window light, even though they were inside and could have used larger tungsten lights. I think the fact the HMI's are much more effecient was the main reason, you can't have too many 10ks on in a small stage, that would be really freakn hot.

 

In conclusion I would say that any of your methods would work. What screws things up is if your start mixing your methods. Picture the TV show Will and Grace, Seinfeld, Fresh Prince. Those are all 35mm studio shows where they use tungsten for daylight. As soon as they shoot a real exterior in real daylilght you can tell something is different. However episodes that are all studio you would never know that it wasn't real daylight. Well, normal people wouldn't know.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt B)

 

EDIT: Actually I don't know if those shows are 35mm or not, but you get the point.

That's great info. especially about the old school D.P.s!

"However episodes that are all studio you would never know that it wasn't real daylight."

That's exactly what I was wondering. Thanks!

Answer [a]

Thanks for answering John and Calvin Coolidge would be impressed with your brevity but to be

clear, are you saying that a. tungsten and tungsten is the most obviously not sunlight light

that's supposed to be sunlight?

(A man told U.S. President Calvin Coolidge, who was known for being taciturn, that the man

had made a large bet that he could get the President to say at least three words during a dinner.

Prseident Coolidge said to the man, "You lose." and said nothing else for the evening.)

It's a three-legged suction cup rig just as you first mentioned.

Thanks. How do you feel about Stickypod Pro for the HVX-200?

Can any one provide feedback on the Steadycam Flycam Camcorder Stabiliser + COMFORT SUPPORT which I see on Ebay, versus the Glidecam 3000 System.

 

I wish to purchase a system for corporate holida incentive and wedding videography and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this "low end" stabilizer gear.

 

Any comments or suggestions for used better quality equipoment up to 800.00 would be appreciated.

 

I propose to use the stabilizer of choice with our HVX 200 camera.

 

Cheers :rolleyes:

 

Alan Gough

www.visionmasters.net

I found this review of the 3000 with a lot of discussion about wedding/event shoots:

http://www3.baylor.edu/Comm_Studies/engine...ideCam_Info.pdf

I am puzzled however because on the Glidecam company site, I can find no mention

of a 3000 model. I use and like the 4000. The 2000 is great but the 4000 can take extra

weight. I definitely recommend the forearm brace.

I hope this helps. I have a post on here asking a similar question about people's

experiences with the HVX-200 and the Glidecam 4000 and a lot of views but no

responses.

On its site, Glidecam recommends the 4000 for the HVX-200. You can get that and the

brace and come in well under $800.00.

The Glidecam is also nice because you can set it down when you want to rest and it will

stand upright. I wouldn't walk away from it with an expensive camera on top...but you could

if you were careful and not arounda lot of commotion. You also can bang off some quick

shots that way.

One other thing: Get a quick release plate and mount it on your Glidecam camera plate.

This is a major time saver when going back and forth to your tripod!

Anyone know of any camera equipment/grip rental companies in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area? I need a simple camera mount for a car for this weekend. The three legged suction cup type, like one of these:

http://www.cinemagadgets.com/small-medium-...unt-p-1243.html

I looked at your link and that mount looks pretty sturdy and seems to be not a bad price if

and I can't tell by looking, it can also mount on he door so that you can get conversation shots

looking in at the driver and passengers.

To be more specific, it looks like it would probably mount (although how does it handle curved

surfaces) but can you tilt the cheese plate to get the shot? Thanks.

We're not that far away in New York, and we have the Panther Multi-mount.

I don't know the Panther Multi-mount. How does it compare to the other rig discussed here?

Thanks.

This started out as a post for "On DVD and television" but I think that it belongs more on here now.

I was watching "The Incredible Mr. Limpet" (1964) on HBO and there is a scene at Coney Island. It starts

with an establishing shot, looking like it was bought from a stock footage company, of people at the

beach and then cuts to what is obviously a set with a water tank.

For the "daylight" what would they use? Maybe some soundstages allow sunlight in but that did not look

like the case here. I think this era was pre HMI. Carbon Arcs had exhaust stacks for the smoke from the

rods burning down. Would they have had a way of using those? Would they use tungsten and color it in

printing?

Did they gel lights for color correction in those days?

For that matter, these days something like the courtroom scenes in "Law and Order" clearly look to be

meant as having daylight coming in through courthouse windows. Now I'm wondering, do they let those

scenes go a little blue somehow?

For example, if somebody shot the same scene indoors in a room with no outside light coming in and:

a. shot tungsten stock with tungsten lights

b. daylight stock with H.M.I.s

c. tungsten stock with an 85 and H.M.I.s

d. tungsten stock with an 85 and full CTB on tungsten lights

e. daylight stock with an 80 and tungsten lights

could you tell the difference?

Obviously, it's often easy to tell work done on a soundstage simply because the atmosphere doesn't

have that outdoors look ("Greystoke, Lord of the Apes" is great but I just knew that jungle was a set)

and real daylight streaming into a room often looks like, well, real daylight but can you always tell if all

you can see is that which is lighted?

Thanks.

Thanks guys!

I have a shoot next week and plan to shoot 720 24P and don't have a production

monitor but at the location there is a television. The

t.v. is 1080i but also has a DVD player hooked up to it that outputs DVDs at

480P, I'm told.

Could I use this as a monitor and how would you hook it up? Through the DVD

player or straight into the DVD player and with what connections?

I have a shoot next week and plan to shoot 720 24P and don't have a production

monitor but at the location there is a television. The

t.v. is 1080i but also has a DVD player hooked up to it that outputs DVDs at

480P, I'm told.

 

Could I use this as a monitor and how would you hook it up? Through the DVD

player or straight into the DVD player and with what connections?

Double post, sorry!

I have a shoot next week and plan to shoot 720 24P and don't have a production

monitor but at the location there is a television. The

t.v. is 1080i but also has a DVD player hooked up to it that outputs DVDs at

480P, I'm told.

Could I use this as a monitor and how would you hook it up? Through the DVD

player or straight into the DVD player and with what connections?

It would be almost impossible to do that shot any other way than by using motion control. It involves dollying, panning, tilting, and zooming. I wasn't guessing as to how it was done, I worked on a few episodes back in the first season and asked about it then.

 

I have done shots using "poor man's motion control," but most of the time to do that, you simplify the number of axes involved. In other words, you can do a dolly move (having specific marks and a click track for the dolly grip to maintain timing helps, as does being on track), but you would probably want to eliminate multiple camera head moves and/or lens zooms, because it's just too involved to try and repeat them with near perfect timing.

Absolutely. Makes sense. I was thinking of maybe a five foot dolly move, no booming or anything

(not that I have a dolly that booms)

and see if I can even make that work. Thanks!

In another thread there's a reference to doing this but I think in the context of having a

Redrock adaptor on the camera. With the stock HVX-200 set-up, have people used the Glidecam

4000 and how have your results been?

Also, I have a Stickypod Pro that I love but I've generally used it for smaller cameras although

it should be able to hold an HVX-200 as I believe that it's within the weight range. Still, that's

a lot of $ hanging on a car. Yes, I do tend to safety the heck out of hanging a camera but still

do any of you use a Stickpod Pro for hanging an HVX-200 on a car for moving shots?

Thanks.

I don't know what new features the 758C has, but I've got the 558C, and I find it tells me more than enough about the light as it is. I've used it for both film and digital cinematography and have no complaints, however I bought it new and it was very expensive, if I were to do it again I think I'd buy two used separate meters. But I find the 558 perfect because I usually wear dickies pants and it fits snugly in the cell-phone pocket.

Regarding the photo here, if Kiefer wants to post on here I'm sure he's welcome but he should sign

up!

Seriously, that must be a blast getting paid to watch them shoot !

I decided to buy a light meter finally and i was about to buy the Sekonic L-558Cine and then i notice of a new version the L-758Cine on ebay, please anybody know if this new one is better.

 

What you think is best for film and digital cinematography.

 

Thanks.

Juan, in many cities there are photography shops that sell refurbished light meters,

including cine meters, for great savings with decent guarantees. Usually they got

them when somebody decided to trdae up but they often have all kinds.

A friend got a 3 temperature color meter for $500.00 that was worth more than twice that

and it works great. Sekonics are usually 40% off new prices and they're good if you find a

good shop. Good luck!

Actually, I believe it was done on Steadicam by Charles Papert. I don't know all of the details, but I remember him saying that he did the opening shot. For more info, post the same question on the steadicam forum and I'm sure Charles will answer in great detail. I'll let him know about this post and hopefully he'll post over here.

Wow, talk about finding out through the grapevine. Thanks!

Only time for a little detail...yes, it was full-on motion control with multiple passes. If you have the DVDs of second season, there was another longer version of the opening that was only used for a couple of episodes, but it took up too much airtime and the fans didn't like it.

 

My favorite thing about the opening is not that the x-ray is actually upside down, which triggered tons of emails, but that as the camera pushes in to the x-ray you can make out the red camera tape on the end of the magazine (or is it yellow, I forgot). Subtle, but once you see it...

Thanks!

Do they do lots of Steadicam shots on "Scrubs"? I know they do lots of long moving takes but

I figured with those smooth hallways they could probably dolly a lot of the time without tracks.

You might enjoy (although as a Steadicam guy you may know) that on the specil edition of

the "Rocky" DVD, Garret Brown is on the commentary track and among other things he talks

about doing the famous shot up the stairs of the Philadelphia Art Museum.

That's hilarious about the tape. I thought I had a sharp eye but I've never noticed that.

Going to check it out.

Motion control.

 

Dolly grips can be pretty good. But nobody's that good.

Okay, now for fun I'm going to see if I can put together a short dolly shot and see

how close I can come to make such an effect work.

Hi,

 

I've never freeze-framed through it, but I have a feeling you could fiddle around and matte the individual characters from a rough repeat into an empty master - it's so fast.

 

Phil

I've been wanting to work on my matting skills (I'm fairly good with Final Cut Pro in

many areas but not so much with mattes) so this might be a fun exercise too in

conjunction with my human motion control experiment.

On the beginning of "Scrubs", the title song plays as the various characters dissolve into

each other until the last one hangs up an x-ray. During this the camera is dollying left.

I've been wondering how they achieve the smooth dissolves (so that the characters don't

'jump' in space) with the dollying. Would this be

done with repeated dollies or lateral moves with a motion control system?

"I'd still like to see some of the aggressive options that were put on some of the higher end Super-8 cameras in Super-16 camera, such as multiple filming speeds, single frame, time-exposure, time-lapse."

 

A Bolex H16 has all of those features! Time lapse of course is all manual but there's nothing to stop you from purchasing an interval timer. When I first started doing time lapse in super 8 with my Canon 1014E, I had to expose single frames manually while looking at a stop watch for reference. It took me a few months to get hold of an accessory interval timer.

Yeah, but what about those Bolex lenses? I used a Bolex for some shots to intercut

with footage from a 16BL with an Angeneiux 12-120 and yeah they were both 16mm

but they didn't match real well and maybe they're not intended to but it made me

disinterested in Bolexes.

I thought I made the post above somewhere else yet somehow it appeared here. It is not a response to the question in this thread obviously.

Even still, ...since you mention it, what is "brushed SS"? Thanks.

Back on topic:

Some party scenes provide their own justified practical lighting, more commonly

in restuarants where tables have candles in glass containers but perhaps if your story would

allow this party to have had a party planner or designer you might be able to introduce

some practical lighting into the apartment to help out, although a grid does seem to

be necessary.

Even still, ...since you mention it, what is "brushed SS"? Thanks.

I think I just found the other thread. Brushed stainlesss steel? Makes sense now.

Hi! I have this shot to do of a girl in this kitchen, all the appliances are brushed stainless steel, it's a long steadycam shot, focus isn't on the appliances but I am quite afraid of the reflections of my lights and myself in the appliances... Any tricks, suggestions on how to light this??? I went to the location today to solve a few technical issue before the shoot and it puzzled me....

 

It's a very reflective surface althought it's brushed... And I can't avoid facing them in the shot...

 

Thanks for your ideas, help!

 

Great appreciated!

 

Christophe

What about dulling spray? I've heard of that. Does anybody use it? I thought that it's

intended for exactly this type of situation.

Alright, I think I'm gonna end up going with Britek lights (inexpensive and seem to fit the needs).

 

Let me know what everyone thinks of the following setup.

 

1 - 650w focusing flood with barndoors

2 - 300w flood with softboxes

1 - 300w flood with barndoors and umbrellas

 

Of course, stands, and bags for everything, along with some spare bulbs.

 

I'm wondering what everyone thinks of this setup as a beginner setup and also, what, if anything you would change or if there is something you can recommend that would be better for around the same price ($600).

Oh, and what gels would you recommend to start with....I was thinking of picking up 2 color correcting "packs" of 12 gels and expand from there.

 

And remember, this is for DV/HDV.

 

Thanks.

You're getting 4 lights and accessories for $600.00? Is that what Britek charges ?

You could try to change the shutter speed...

 

if you're running at 24P try using 1/60 shutter instead of 1/48 (normal).

Thanks, I think that's the right track because I realize that it's likely a frequency issue so

refining it slightly to work with 50 HZ makes sense.

The easiest way to find the correct viewing angle for an LCD is to use the black PLUGE on color bars. Those are the three little dark gray (near black) rectangles on the lower right. If your camera is set up to use a master black value of 0IRE, you should be able to see all three black chips. Adjust the viewing angle until you find the "sweet spot" where the chip on the left gets as dark as it can, but you can still see the chip in the middle.

 

 

(NOTE: This is for cameras using 0 IRE setup. For proper adjustment of monitors when using 7.5 IRE setup, check here: http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm )

 

As for the pulsing fluorescents, you need to shoot with a shutterspeed of 1/50 sec., not 1/48, when shooting 24fps and 50Hz. lighting. If you're using the shutter angle feature, set it to 172.8 instead of 180.

 

You shouldn't see any pulsing or flicker from Kino-flos, though. They use high-frequency ballasts to avoid flicker issues. I suspect you mean practical fluorescents, which flicker at the frequency of the power supply (apparently 50Hz. in Singapore; 60 Hz. in the US).

Thanks, that's a big, big help. I had one other suggestion (off-forum) relating to the pluge

bars (although not explaining which ones they are like you did) but saying that I should go

into the camera and adjust the bars, which I didn't want to do (and then wouldn't I still have

to have known what angle to be looking at the monitor to do so if I still were without a

production monitor (which I also would have to set up...!)

Tilting the monitor until seeing what you the right display looks like (thanks a lot for

including the right and wrong examples) is exactly what I was hoping to know. In this

case, the camera is set to 0 IRE for black level but the link is great for reading about 7.5

set-up.

Yes, that makes sense about Kinos. Maybe for some people it's becoming a generic phrase

for flouorescents. The 1/50 or 172.8 is perfect.

This is from a post on another thread:

"The Panasonic HVX 200 is rated at 320 ASA. So for night construction scenes you will have to pump in quite a bit of light. But fortunately for you, i think there will ba alot of places to hide lights in a construction set right? Aslo make sure you dont shoot the camera wide open. f2-f2.8 would be desirable. I have shot wide open on this camera in low light situations, and the blacks come out milky, and grainy. Not the effect i was after in that situation. Another side note, when shooting dark scenes, it's a good idea for you to shoot looking through the eye piece rather than the flip screen. The viewing angle of the flip screen is very narrow, and you will be looking at the image with the wrong exposure if the screen angle is not exact. A way around this is to look through the eye piece.

a while ago when i was shooting with this camera, i was shooting the NTSC version (in singapore that shoots PAL). I noticed the kino pulsing. This is easily fixed in camera."

I haven't been able to get an answer there to this question: Is there a correct angle for

viewing at which the L.C.D. is most accurate? I'm usually above it a bit but it certainly looks

different from different angles. I often do not have a production monitor and do not use the

eye piece.

Also, does anybody know about the second comment and exactly how to fix pulsing lights in

camera? Thanks!