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Jeff Coatney

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Everything posted by Jeff Coatney

  1. Many of my friends own very high quality 35mm camera packages (complete systems) that I have been encouraged to use at my discretion, at no charge, for my personal projects. Even with free access to a camera package however, shooting 35mm is a very expensive proposition. I sense the palpable resistance to the new technology that Red promises in terms of image quality and parity to 35mm. But for many people, the possible cost-effectiveness trumps most of those concerns on many low or modestly budgeted projects. While I myself am looking forward to the Red camera as an alternative to film, I don't shoot other people's movies, and I won't ever contemplate using Red for any reason other than cost. But I have seen the actual 4K presentation of the Peter Jackson footage and as a life-long movie watcher, I saw no comparison to anything approaching "video". I saw imagery that compared to 35mm film. If these two formats (assuming Red delivers on at least 75% of the hype) were priced the same, I would probably opt for 35mm. While the jury is still out on the implications of the real-world workflow that one would be tied to with a Red camera, the simple fact that you eliminate many of the steps involved in getting the footage to the editing suite and even to the output stage is a major advantage of the system. I realize the moderators of this forum would like to stifle the seemingly unending "film vs. digital" debate until Red delivers a usable camera for a head-to-head comparison. But from my perspective (until I'm asked to leave or not post again) I feel the economic repercussions that the Red camera introduces to the industry are fair game for discussion here in the Red subforum. For someone like me that would love to shoot 35mm, what I would love to hear from the many professional camera operators and DP's that read these posts is how can you make 35mm compete with a system like Red?
  2. I led a team tasked with creating a Digital Portrait system for theme park rides back fourteen years ago. It wasn't easy but we created a working system. The reason it wasn't widely implemented was because the company was photo-chemical film based and at that time in history, few digital printing options existed with the requisite throughput for a cost-effective hard-copy. In the process of creating this system, we had the pleasure of traveling to Kodak's advanced digital lab in Rochester, NY and also met with similar R&D teams at Fuji, Polaroid, Sony, Nikon, Canon and Ilford. Kodak, Polaroid, Fuji and Ilford were all trying to crack the Digital problem. Meaning, that they were all trying to find a role for their photochemical film to play in the digital future, so their core businesses could still function, still thrive, still grow like they had in the past. When pressed by me about their plan to transition to digital, they were evasive and vague about any such plans. It became obvious that there were no plans at any of the large companies to deal with emerging imaging technology. I met no one in that time that could have imagined the utterly dizzying speed with which Digital imaging overtook the consumer photography market. Back then I marveled at Kodak and Nikon's $30,000 digital SLR. The same camera used to take the iconic photo of the lone protester standing against the tanks in Tienamen Square. Now we have cameras on our phones, none of which carry the Kodak logo. Now we can buy 6+ megapixel cameras for under $200. Most of them don't carry the Kodak logo either. My point is that had Kodak acted differently thirteen years ago, we could have seen their logo on a lot more digital still cameras today. I could relay the same tale about typesetting and commercial printing. In the early eighties I operated a stat camera, in the late eighties, a Macintosh. I still remember seeing a parking lot of one of the printers I used in the early 90's filled with stat cameras, many of them just a few years old, all of them headed to a junkyard. To me there is no debate. There is no comparison between film and digital. Digital IS the next step in the evolution of film. I've seen this transition twice before in my life, as I've indicated, and I can predict with accuracy at least one thing. Digital will supplant photochemical film faster than you can imagine. There will be no migration to 65mm film, no 120mm film, no IMAX "film". I doubt they will even coexist for more than a year or two as alternatives for each other. Film simply is no longer economically viable. Soon we will see 4K digital Cinema projectors cost less to install than the maintenance on the old Christies cost in a year. Movies are the last refuge of the old technology. I love the things we all love about film. They will not disappear. But if you think film has a future beyond two or three years, I think you're kidding yourself. The RED, the Phantom 65, the Viper, The DALSA, you name it, the technology has arrived at the price/performance threshold required to supplant the old technology. Film has evolved past the need for a photochemically based incarnation. Think about it this way: The Audience eperiences the Movie digitally via DVD, HDTV and digital projection in theatres (soon every theatre). Digital imagery pervades the Pre-Production phase in the form of animatics, pre-vis, storyboards, concept art and virtual sets. Post-Production is completely Digital with Avid, Final Cut, After-Effects, Shake, Maya all gaining ground along with the DI as a finishing solution. With such enormous pressures at both ends of the movie production workflow to create in a digital space, photochemical film as even a Production acquisition medium is doomed. You shoot film, you process it, prep it for telecine, then you DIGITIZE it! The unnecessary steps like processing and telecine are going to be eliminated. Soon. The factories that produce the Raw Stock 35mm you shoot are huge, covering acres of valuable land, requiring the stock-piling and subsequent remediation of chemicals, precious metals and vast amounts of waste and effluence. They will be unsustainable enterprises as the demand wanes for photochemical film. The labs like Deluxe and Technicolor that produce exhibition prints will see their viability challenged with the coming revolution in digital projection. Telecine will no longer exist. This transition could very well be counted in double-digit months, or single-digit years. The Panavision, the Arriflex, the Moviecam are going to see their value drop as precipitously as the high-end 35mm SLR's of the still photography world. As publishing and Consumer and Commercial photography go, so goes the Motion Picture industry. I predict you will have very little say in the matter of whether or not you shoot film. The economics will dictate the choice. The Producers and Distributors will decide because they have the power of the purse. This will not limit creativity, it will not mean that image quality or aesthetic decisions will suffer. I think you will find that as film dies away, it will be replaced by a much more robust and flexible imaging toolset.
  3. I am new to the RED community, but I met and spoke with Jim Jannard at the RED booth at NAB and decided to join the discussion. I have an extensive background in product development and what I saw at the RED booth at NAB was incredible. I'm sure you all have focused on the technical aspects and the production workflows ad infinitum. I know that too many talented, capable and well-funded people are working on the workflow issue and I have every confidence that it will be solved. But in addition to being a filmmaker, I?m an industrial designer, and the questions I had for Jim and his team focused entirely on supply chain management, delivery and support. Let's face it - Jim and his team have created an incredible product that has the ultimate "Killer App": ( a 35mm Movie Camera with a virtually limitless supply of processed and telecine?d film at no extra charge ). But if RED Team can't deliver quality production units, or they can't manage their supply chain or their vendors, then there's no RED. It's that simple. Because RED Team's expertise is product development primarily, they have gone beyond the other guys like Phantom HD (IMHO: Great high speed photography, but it doesn't look too production friendly) and Sony (who, let's face it, probably had to mitigate their ability to compete against Panavision to turn out that CineAlta camera in time for George Lucas to use it on Episode II). From my perspective, the main reason why Sony and Panasonic and all the other ?Big Names? would have never built a Camera System along the lines of the RED is two-fold. First of all, they?re publicly traded and they have shareholders to please. The result being that no CEO would commit the resources (financial and talent) to chase what, in a Sony-Scale business model at least, is a pittance. Movie Production? Sony would spend more on development of the prototype than they could ever get back in the eighteen-month window that the shareholders would give them to turn a profit. Reason two is the size of the chip. 35mm depth of field is possible only with a 35mm imager. Sony could never bring to market a chip that big. Why? The economies of scale that they function under would require orders of millions of units. Besides, when has anyone heard of Japanese product design thinking result in making things bigger? So, if you?re waiting for Sony or Panasonic or any of those other guys to save your bacon with a RED alternative, you have a long wait. Those companies are Consumer Electronics companies that have small Professional Equipment divisions (very small in comparison to the main market they serve). The RED is a complete System and every aspect of successful product development is visibly present in the final design from how the product interfaces with the user to how the images are downloaded and edited in a production environment. This seems obvious until you compare the RED system to its closest rival, the Phantom HD. While the Phantom is very impressive, it was apparent when I looked at it in action that it would be very unfriendly to a User and is devoid of the elegant production workflow that RED demonstrated. This assertion is somewhat vetted by Peter Jackson's test Film and tempered by my admiration of the Phantom HD guys. I'm a fan of anyone trying to make a real Digital Cinema Camera. Phantom HD appears to still be in some advanced prototype stage, but they claim to be shipping units, albeit with less than ideal memory / storage solutions (The Phantom guys were addressing this need however with a potential vendor on the show floor (!) in front of me). One of the first questions I asked RED Team is how many factories are you dealing with? RED Team said they have contracted with a network of unaligned and independent factories across Asia and in other parts of the world, each one getting contracts to produce RED Spec'd discreet components in high volumes. The factories probably do not know of each other's existence, RED Team preferring (rightly I think) to handle component integration and final assembly domestically. Therefore ideally, no factory deals with the entire product, only RED engineering and assembly see the whole picture. There will no doubt be a robust effort to target RED's technology via espionage and it looks like Jim and the rest of RED Team have learned well the pitfalls of overseas manufacturing. The knock-off guys can sting you hard when you've got a hot product about ready to come out. This was one of my fears. I want RED to recoup their development costs as soon as possible so that they can continue to sell RED camera SYSTEMS and innovate further improvements. Domestic competition from counterfeit RED cameras would have three market forces stopping them: the Patent filing and the legal pressure that can be exerted is the primary one. The second force is an entrenched user base that requires a workflow dependent on firmware (usually very secure) in order to function. It would be incredibly difficult for corporate spies to get hold of that, but not impossible. The third is Sales Volume. Just how many RED Cameras can there be in the world? Your Grandma doesn't need one. Your local church softball team won't need one. It may be astronomically high, but there is a limit to the number of cameras they can sell. Sure you could buy one, reverse-engineer it and possibly figure out how it works (but only up to 80 - 90% functionality) but you still have to mass-produce it. Believe me, someone with a factory in Mainland China WILL TRY. The big barrier to a RED knock-off? Simply that each component is worthless on it's own and only has value within the context of the entire workflow. Anyone wanting to make a RED copy will have to go through their own development process to do it, at least in the short term. And that is a very expensive proposition. IMHO, RED has gone to great lengths to frustrate the pirates and product dumpers out there. So, Product Security seems assured. The other selling point for me was the fact that RED seems to have kept both Prototyping and Tooling either in-house or under tightly controlled foreign shops (my money is on Orange county, RED?s HQ). I was also informed, along these lines, that at the start of the show (NAB), RED had a complete set of Tooling for RED camera and that at least half of them are being recut. The tooling revisions were ongoing as of the show and it probably continues right now. It can take as long as 45 days to cut tooling. The upside of this news signals that engineering is ongoing and will likely never end for this product. The clock starts ticking on the Patent the second the engineers get their pink-slips. Although this may delay delivery for a few weeks, it tells me that the system will exceed the functional envelope that they had when they committed to tooling. In short, they have likely discovered a benefit that was so innovative that they ponied up more cash to alter the molds so that the first shipped units would have it. That fact was staggering to me and should indicate to anyone that knows about these things that RED Team is focused on gaining and keeping substantial marketshare right out of the gate. That would be attractive in the context of say, an IPO? It also reveals the depth and breadth of resources RED has in their development war chest. They understand that if it?s not right from day one, they can flush all those millions they?ve spent so far, down the toilet. Could the tooling revision mean that they forgot a basic aspect necessary to function? I doubt it. No one in their right mind would ever commit to tooling unless the product functioned to the engineered specifications and was ready to hit the factory assembly lines and fully function as advertised. Boris and Natasha prove that. This is, to some degree at least, the Oakley brain trust. They know how to make things people want to buy. So, the fact that they have a complete mold set indicates that development had at least reached the prescribed functional envelope, and the fact that they changed half of those tools (a RED Team estimate, not mine) indicates that they have been able to increase the functional envelope beyond the initial design. It appears that first users are likely getting a RED 2.0. The Apple factor is icing on the cake. Apple could stand to gain enormous market advantage by backing RED workflow. Apple?s involvement in the development of RED also signals that RED is indeed all that it says it is and more. Why? A company the size of Apple, which obviously has a very deep development and engineering division, could never commit resources to an unproven third-party product. RED Team had to have demonstrated early-on a significant capability in being able to deliver on their promise of a production camera system. Just the internal corporate paperwork necessary to allocate time and talent from Apple?s team of engineers and other staff would require significant manpower expenditures. Let?s look at where Apple?s attention was focused during this time-frame: finalizing iPhone, creating Final Cut Studio 2, not to mention they probably had ?All Hands On Deck? for the transition to the Intel chipset. The bottomline as I see it is that Apple probably didn?t have many people standing around with their hands in their pockets and nothing to do. Apple clearly INVESTED time and talent (and cash) in making the RED workflow possible and their commitment obviously continues today. With few exceptions, Apple doesn?t have a history of backing the losing team. Finally, as a SolidWorks user, I have complete confidence in the inter-operability of all the components and their function since SolidWorks has a very robust toolset for testing and ergonomics. So, my report from the show floor is complete (albeit very, very late) and my prediction is that RED is a Revolutionary product (as opposed to evolutionary) that will change the way movies are shot, edited and exhibited, but it won't change how movies look. Good movies shot on RED will look like any other good movie shot on film. I?m reminded that we all tend to refer to the film gauge when describing the look of film. We say that it ?Looks better on 35mm.? The reality is that ?35mm? has been around nearly a century and I?m sure you would all agree that a 35mm film shot in 2007 in no way matches the ?look? of a 35mm film shot in 1927. But if you compared RED footage to today?s 35mm, I doubt the difference would be as noticeable. In fact, I?m pretty sure the average ticket buyer would not be able to tell the difference. The biggest beneficiary of the RED camera and the real end-user is not the filmmaker-- it?s the Audience. Let the Revolution begin!
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