Neil Duffy

The color of the night time videos I have seen from the Canon are incredible. The issue is movement, like shooting while driving. I put up some links to these videos on the Dec. 3 thread. Will Nikon and Canon start modifying their lenses to handle motion? Like breathing and making FF possible. I am not a cinematographer, but is it possible to address David's issues with FF on the larger lenses. In other words, are the issues of FF with larger lenses inherent in larger lens design, or just part of the current implementation of larger lenses. Thanks.

Here are some more videos of the Canon (from Planet 5D): http://planet5d.dyndns.org/~wikiuser/plane...s#Video_Samples

I think it has to due with Nikon's announcement on December 1. Check out this clip of the Canon 5DmkII shot at night in Beijing: http://www.vimeo.com/2327058 For comparison, here is a video of Nikon's current D90: http://vimeo.com/1728575 The color on the Canon is amazing (I am not a professional here, this is just my opinion). Nikon will probably be announcing a competitor.

I really hate to bring back this thread to its point, but here goes a try. I take back my earlier comment about the FF35 being the standard 10 years from now. All I can tell is that I think that will be the standard in the next couple of years. After that who knows. If new technology comes out and 1/4 inch sensors capture everything that a human eye can see on a 100 foot projection screen, then yea 1/4 inch will be the standard. And will have 1/4 inch Cooke primes smaller than golf balls.

Your right, it really is a question of physics. There seems to be a correlation between pixel size and light gathering ability. That is probably why Cannon and Nikon went for FF35. But where is the true limit of digital sensors? But in a way, it does not really matter what is the absolute limit of sensors. What matters, is where that limit will be for the next 10 years when film transfers to digital and new standards are created based on digital sensors. Once a standard is set for Digital Cinematography, all the accessories, lenses and talent will adjust to that standard. Even if the light gathering drastically improves, larger sensors and larger lenses will probably always gather more light. So the improvements, may just be in image quality, rather than sensor size. We might have some small sensors for specific action shots, but the main cameras will always be based on the new standard. Again, this is the opinion of someone with no technical knowledge.

We rent out two RED's a lot. So I am concerned about the upcoming EPIC. It seems that digital sensors have limits. If you have a CMOS sensor, you lose about 1/3 of the resolution. So if you are aiming for true 4K, you need a 6K sensor. And if you are going increase the light gathering abilities of the camera, you have to increase the pixel size. So the only way to go, for a true 4K CMOS camera with increased light gathering abilities, is an increased sensor size. There is a reason why Cannon and Nikon went to FF35 with their high end cameras. S35 might be the sweet spot for film, but digital sensors are different. What holds for film, does not necessary hold for digital. The current state of high end digital photography shows the future of digital cinematography. The question is where is the new sweet spot for digital sensors and lenses? I think Cannon and Nikon answered that question for digital photography. I am betting the new standard will the FF35. As for the EPIC: 6K CMOS gives you true 4K, and you have increase dynamic range. You have millions of still lenses made for the FF35 digital photography cameras. I am new to all of this. So this is the perspective of an outsider.

To me the most important thing is the dynamic range and frame rates. Anything over 2k is sufficient for almost any task today.

Thank you Brian for your response to a newbie question.

Just to clarify, my question is about depth of color. Not saturation. The colors in the photos above look good to me. Thanks for the post.

I am not a DP. I am really interested in getting maximum color latitude out of the camera. This is more important than resolution. Especially when it is above 2k. How does the RED compare to the F23 with regard to color. I understand Bay is using the F23 in Chicago for his new movie. And he loves color. Of course, the F23 comes at a completely different price point. The photos posted above look good. But, are there issues that I am not seeing in these photos with regard to color?