Kenneth Wajda

Nice work. Which shots were 16mm? It all looks like super 8 to me.

The first shot of the bride in the study, in color, and the next few couple color shots that follow it are 16mm with a 10mm Schneider prime.

http://www.vimeo.com/1796949 is the link.

Wedding shot in Super 8 and a little bit of 16mm.

Super 8 BW was Canon 1014 xls and 814xls, and color was Beaulieu 2008S and 4008ZM.

!6mm was an Arri S.

Film was Tri-x and Plus-x in the Canon's. E64 in the Beaulieu's. And 7285 100D in the Arri.

Ken

Will post link soon.

Shoot backlit. Makes for pretty pics and will work with your exposure.

Feel free to add to this equation--this is the lowest I've been able to figure:

Film PLUS-X @ $11.00/roll (John Schwind--he uses USPS, cheaper than UPS/FEDEX Kodak uses, and he's only $.40 higher/roll.)

Processing: Film Video Services Minnesota @ $7.50/roll (I just found them-anyone have any experience?)

$18.50 for 200 seconds (3:20) at 18fps.

Transfer myself with a HVX200 HD variable speed camera and a Variable Speed Projector

Total $5.55/minute

As an added benefit, S8 blends in and doesn't attract the kind of attention a 16mm or 35mm camera attracts, for permits and such. Needs much less personnel to operate. Just a thought.

Andrew

Here's how I calculate my Super 8 film costs--which I think if you can add your own telecine process, the cost of S8 is quite affordable.

I am shooting mostly at 18fps because I want that "old time" look. But I put the costs for 24fps as well.

Film PLUS-X @ $11.00/roll (John Schwind)

Processing: Yale @ $14.00/roll

$25 for 200 seconds (3:20) at 18fps.

Transfer myself with a HVX200 HD variable speed camera and a Variable Speed Projector

Total $7.50/minute (My most used setup)

Film 64T @ $19.00/roll (Yale)

Processing: Yale @ $14.00/roll

$33 for 200 seconds (3:20) at 18fps.

Transfer Myself with a HVX200 HD camera and a Variable Speed Projector

Total $9.90/minute

Film PLUS-X @ $11.00/roll (John Schwind)

Processing: Yale @ $14.00/roll

$25 for 150 seconds (2:30) at 24fps.

Transfer myself with a HVX200 HD variable speed camera and a Variable Speed Projector

Total: $10/minute

Film 64T @ $19.00/roll (Yale)

Processing: Yale @ $14.00/roll

$33 for 150 seconds (2:30) at 24fps.

Transfer Myself with a HVX200 HD camera and a Variable Speed Projector

Total $13.20/minute

It seems to me the telecine costs are significant in this process, virtually doubling or tripling my costs. That money could be invested in a good HD camera and telecine projector. This is all for personal projects, paid for out of pocket. On a commercial shoot, it doesn't matter as the costs will be passed on to the client.

Here are Spectra's discounted specials:

8 Pack

8 Rolls Super 8 (20 min)

Processing

Prep & Clean

1 hour RANK Transfer @ 24fps

Mini DV or Beta SP Tape

Cost: $553.00

Discount: $94.00

Final Cost: $459.00

Total: $22.95/minute

Spectra's largest order with the biggest discount:

48 Pack

48 Rolls Super 8 (120 min)

Processing

Prep & Clean

6 hour RANK Transfer @ 24fps

Mini DV or Beta SP Tape

Cost: $3258.00

Discount: $879.00

Final Cost: $2379.00

Total: $19.83/minute

Anyway, that's how I see it and do it. Thought I would share.

Andrew

The Nikon-Zoom 8 was introduced in 1963 and I read somewhere that the standard from 16fps to 18fps happened in 1959, so I think it is an 18fps camera.

Interesting take on R8, Will. May I ask what cameras and stocks you typically use?

Andrew

The beauty of the Nikon is it has a battery driven motor, so there's no winding. No running out of steam at :30. And it uses four ordinary AA batteries.

And since it has the manual exposure, I can use a handheld meter (which I always do anyway) and just set it myself. These Nikons appear to be readily available on the "e" site for $10 or so.

I will be curious to hear what you think of the 8mm film when it gets back from the lab.

Best of luck. And with the Arri, too. (I had one of those and loved it, but the need for big batteries and the fact it makes a bunch of noise is keeping me from getting another one. I picked up a Bolex H16 and a Bell&Howell 70DR and am going to try them out--they are both spring wound, but not too loud, thankfully.)

Andrew

It's not in place of my Super 8's. I have a Beaulieu 2008 with an 8-64 Angenieux and a couple of 814 and 104 XL-S's, so it's not for lack of cameras. Just curious about different formats.

Anyone familiar with this camera?

It's a Nikon Zoom 8 Regular 8mm movie camera from 1959.

It's in mint condition, the glass is perfect, the viewfinder bright (with a split-prism) and an SLR sytem, the manual exposure works--I'm not even going to try to find the mercury battery for it. I am going to do a test but has anyone any experience comparing frames from a high quality regular 8mm camera (or even like a Bolex B8 or P1) to Super 8 for quality? I was thinking maybe the 8mm is even steadier of an image than Super 8.

Or maybe I just love old film equipment. I got it for $10 and it's sweet! And quiet, too!!

And I was told by John Schwind that the 25' length 8mm rolls actually have 30' to cover the leader film, so if you're careful and can change in near darkness, you can shoot longer, too.

Thanks,

Andrew

P.S. I also picked up a Fujica Z2 Single 8 because I am crazy! That will be a long-distance test but I am so curious. And it looks so cool and the camera has so much control.

cool! i like your RAIN film. very cool. nice b&w!

ken

Do you still have an S8 editor available? I could use one of those, please contact me if you do, thanks.

Interested in the Canon 16mm.

Ken

You still selling it? Email me at info - at - downtownwestcliffe.com and maybe we can work something out.

thanks.

ken

I'm selling my arri 16s with case and tripod on ebay. If anyone is interested please check out the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...s=tab%3DSelling

 

If you have any questions feel free to message me.

 

Kev

I think I have settled on three primary stocks:

And 500T as an emergency stock, just in case there is no light (though I plan on not taking the VFW Hall weddings).

I added a Sekonic L-508 meter I picked up on CL for $120! Sweet price!!!

Thanks everyone. And I am still open to new opinions if you thought of anything.

Andrew

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I appreciate your advice.

Hi,

I have a Canon 1014XLS, an 814XLS and a 514XLS and a Beaulieu 2008S.

I have a handheld meter and am very familiar with photographic techniques, filters, exposure, film stocks, etc. I've been a still photographer and video producer for 20 years.

I am going to be shooting weddings for clients in the next few months and using Super 8 (and maybe some 16mm film), but the issue is, if I want an "old-fashioned" look, do I have to give up on the "pro" techniques I regularly use to shoot digital video--steadicam, fluid tripod moves, full manual control--so that it looks more like folks "remember what it looked like."

Do I shoot with the handheld meter and lock the exposure (which will slow me down and may make me miss a shot), or use these cameras on auto exposure and let the exposure ride?

Do I shoot reversal, because that is what we used to shoot (and could even be projected by the client, if they so inclined), or negative because it has latitude?

Do I shoot at 18fps, because that's more common to the way people shot in the 60s and 70s (and it conserves film and shoots in lower light)? Or 24fps because that's easier to transfer to video for editing?

Do I use manual zoom and keep it very handheld because that's the "look"? Or do I work steady, off a tripod?

Do you know what I mean? I want a feeling of a vintage movie look. I don't want it to look amateurish, but there's a fine line if it looks too "pro", too.

Kind of like the moving camera in the old show, Hill Street Blues--they didn't want it to look too composed.

If I were doing it tomorrow, I would choose 18fps, 200T and 500T negative film, Tri-x reversal film, auto-exposure on the Canons and manual exposure on the Beaulieu, and all hand-held. But I have some time and am open to suggestions, so please, set me straight--or at least share your opinion.

Thanks.

Andrew

This is way off topic, but, hey, your daughter is left-eyed, like me. I don't see that very often.

Good luck with your Elmo!

Anyone have any idea how to unstuck the manual exposure button? It says pull up but it doesn't budge.

I don't want to use so much force as to break it.

It seems to be reading correctly in auto exposure, but I am a manual exposure guy.

Thanks,

Ken

Thanks, Michael. That helps a lot.

One last question. What does the button on the front of the Beaulieu Reglomatic do?

Thanks again for all your detailed help.

Ken

Hi,

I am hoping someone has the experience to help me with this. I have a Beaulieu S 2008 with an auto 8-64mm f1.9 Angenieux lens -- bought the whole thing for $100 at a local photo store, though I am waiting on a charger/batteries -- and the lens has an auto iris motor, which I can hear the gears turning if I try to manually set the iris.

Is there a way to disable the auto iris so that I can set it manually, and not have the motor gears dragged along while I do it? I am thinking this cannot be good for the lens gears.

Thanks,

Ken

Hi, 18fps for a wedding,imo, simply because you've got a little extra on the exposure, handy inside the venue an extra 1/3 of a stop!!. Projectors, depends on your budget, Eumig 810hqs, bauer t82, agfa ls1 or ls2, elmo st160, there are simply loads. For my gash super 8 to mini dv copies i use an elmo gs1200, as one can vary the speed to avoid flicker. I've just picked up an elmo k100sm projector, i think this has vary speed, only £20.00, brand new boxed:)

 

Say Kenneth are you UK based?? if so i have 10 carts of well outdated k40, i could let you have a couple to perform camera running tests with. I have heard 64t has been jamming, so far, never happened to me, though i have had the jitters!!!!!!!!!

Hi Andy,

Nope, in the US. Thanks for the offer of the carts, though!

I will look for those projectors you mentioned. Thanks for the input!

Ken

Any ideas for the good to best projectors to look for?

Also, I am looking to get a home movie look of a wedding. Can I shoot at 18fps, saving film in the process and getting that "nostalgic" look? That's what they want. Or would I be better off shooting 24fps because it is better quality or because of issues of telecine?

Thanks for all the help.

Ken

Shooting a cartridge or half for test purposes is part and parcel of filmmaking. That's why it's quite handy to just shot some reversal film as a test reel (cheap and cheerful E-64) and project the developed reel with a projector - you avoid the cautious handling with negative and the costs for the telecine. A duo set-up of a negative chain around telecine and a reversal chain around a projector is the most ideal personal studio solution. At least for me.

That makes sense. I don't have a projector but will put that on the list of things to get. Great feedback, Michael. Thanks!

Thanks for your help. I wish I could get my hands on some old film that isn't worth trying to shoot, rather than burning good film to test this.

Ken

Hi, I just got a Beaulieu 2008s and it is equipped with an exterior battery pack. It works fine, but I find the exterior battery pack cumbersome. Is it possible, at this point, to have the camera serviced to use the original battery or a recelled battery? I keep seeing bjorn's name mentioned and am wondering if he could help? If he can do such a thing how can I contact him?

http://www.chamblesscineequip.com/ - Jesse in Atlanta does recelling of these batteries but hurry, he's closing on June 1 for the summer.

Ken