Sanjay Sami

The guy from rhino

The guy from Rhino would be Gary from Doggicam. They are the inventors and patent holders of the Rhino clamp that I had posted a picture of. There is no company called Rhino that makes that particular clamp.

Doggicam is a great company, and I cannot recommend them strongly enough. True professionals who deliver on what they promise.

This rig is mounted to the motorcycle by way of 4 rhino clamps. Pretty heavy camera on a cantilever. Impressive clamps.

A few pictures here

http://www.thegripworks.com/rigging.html

Have not updated in 4 years, but am working on it. Should have some of my new stuff up in a month or so.

Thanks Sanjay,

I was hoping that someone would post a website link for the 'Baby Bite" or "Baby Byte".

Hi JD,

Never used the Big Bite clamp myself - first time I'm hearing of it. But following Roberts picture link, it seems (not very clear in the picture) similar to the Rhino clamp in principle. Maybe Robert can clarify. You can get these from Gary at Doggicam.

Hope that helps.

How about a link to the manufacturer's website?

Hey JD,

This is Kupos website

http://www.stage.com.tw/

dont see their range of Cardellinis there. Maybe Steve sued them. Sure they still make them though.

They make great C-stands and combos. Never bought them, but played with them at Expos. I will be at Cinec in Munich. If I see their Cardellinis I will post a picture. Not nearly as good as the original though. However they do not get jammed when you overcrank them. Dont know how they solved that one. It was the first thing I tried when I got my hands on it.

Speaking of Cardellinis, have you tried the one with the adjustable 90 degree baby pin? It is incredible in tight rigging situations.

http://www.cardelliniclamp.com/inc/sdetail/185

Big bytes are the same style of clamp as a rhino . Don't know if you've ever heard of those before but they've been around for a good decade or a bit now . If you guys are really interested I'll take some pics of my stuff and post em' up . As far as the mafer debate goes , they are inferior to the two I mentioned before also the rhino and any other clamp I use . I didn't even like them 20 years ago when they were kinda the only type of clamp that size . I believe there are superior devices these days and I wouldn't trust them with much more than a practical bulb over someone's head(especially when they are being made in china) I have seen ones that were originally manufactured in I believe Italy - Fail due to cracked cast pieces . Anyone who endorses the use of that clamp does not have a very good understanding of the basic physics principles involved with what these things do for us . Not trying to personally insult anyone , maybe the reason you still use mafers is financial or you don't have access to the tools I have the privilege to use on a daily basis .

Rhinos are made by Doggicam. I had the "privilege" of first using them when I was key grip on "The Bourne Supremacy". We used them extensively to rig cameras off motorcycles, and to rig the sparrowhead. I used them again rigging motorcyles on second unit for "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button". They are very good, but their application is not always standard in studio applications.

The superclamp - predecessor of the Mafer was made by Manfrotto/ Avenger in Italy. They started being called Mafers after Matthews bought the patent - like Mathellinis. If the clamp cracked while being used, I suspect the clamp was being abused. I have never seen one of the Avenger clamps crack.

No doubt you have an awesome understanding of the physics of clamp design, but I am sure the designers at Manfrotto and Matthews do as well.

As far as your priviliged life goes ... I guess you are lucky to have access to all that great equipment. Not everyone does. I've worked with Jackie Chans rigging team ... they have no cardellinis, no Mafers ... very underpriviliged.

But what awesome riggers...

Sanjay, do you mean these: http://www.newyorkfilmgear.com/4magicarmclamp.aspx

JD - Exactly ! Not sure who makes the one in the link you sent me, but that looks exactly like the one Kupo makes. Never used one myself. I own two (The Kupo reps gave them to me at the Broadcast expo in Mumbai) and have never found a need to use them, because i either use a superclamp (avenger made Mafer)or a cardellini.

I believe mafer clamps are a thing of the past , or should be .

You need to learn how to use them. If you do, you would never make a claim like that. They do things (one of which JD pointed out) that you cannot do with a Cardellini. There is a company in Taiwan called Kupo, that makes knock off Cardellinis. Their hottest selling fake "Cardellini" is a Cardellini / Mafer Hybrid. It has the baby pin reciever like the Mafer mounted on the end jaw of an end jaw fake "Cardellini".

Wicks points are really really important. Especially the part about what happens to the arm and the grip operating it. The fact that as DP of the movie, you are posting this question here leads me to wonder how much experience your Key / Rigging grip has. These setups can quickly turn ugly without the experience necessary to preempt disaster. An experienced insert car driver is really important.

Now having assumed you have already got all of that under control, the most important thing to understand is the vast quantities of torque a crane arm thats being swung around will exert on its mounting points.

I would avoid mounting it on a proper dolly (Fisher 10 or Hybrid) simply because you risk damaging the dolly (wheel arms,king pin etc)with the amount of force the 2 tonne ratchet straps would exert.

Better would be a crane base of some kind.

Straps will work, but speedrail is not a bad solution either. The best way in my opinion would be to get long U-bolts around the tube (steel not alu) to the ladder frame of the truck chassis and then build from there.

More important than all of this would be to get a good grip and good driver both of whom have experience doing this.

Also the vibration isolator will not help without a stabilised head. What does work pretty well is Chapmans vertical vibration isolator, but then you cannot use the arm.

Good luck

Tell us how it goes.

Sanjay Sami

She's of no relation -- I once asked Rob Cardellini the inventor.

 

I love Cardellini clamps but there is one feature of the Mafer that it does not share. The Mafer allows the in to be pulled and then it can be mounted to the end of a baby stud. This means that Mafers can be mounted together like a kinda cheeseboro, or stuck onto the end of a stand or various other rigging. I used to stick one on the top of a lightstand and hold a boom pole for talking head interviews. Good for grabbing speedrail for a simple overhead rig as well.

Steve Cardellini is the inventor. And I've seen it used effectively in the applications you mention.

Mafers are great in department stores holding signs. they are fantastic for that photo studio at the mall, you know the one with glamour in its name. they are great for those guys who wont spend the extra $15 for a cardellini.

Mafers (or super clamps outside the US) can be very effective on set. I had only ever used them as track emergency stops when I had track set up high with a big drop off the end. I never really thought of using them for anything else. I recently finished work on a movie where we shot in Bangkok, Samos (greece) and Istanbul, and in all 3 places, they had never seen or heard of a Cardellini, and used Superclamps exclusively. I was very sceptical, but hugely impressed nonetheless. They are very versatile, and in the hands of a grip who knows how to use them well, to its strengths and away from its weaknesses, can be as effective as a cardellini and sometimes better (sorry Steve). They cant do some of the things cardellinis are good for, but then maybe having both in your toolbag is a good thing.

Am I a convert? No. Too used to Cardellinis.

Hi Phil,

I am a key grip, rigger, dolly grip and steadicam operator. I have been doing this for about 20 years. Steadicam for 14.

I don't think steadicam operators think themselves greater than the film.

Not the good ones anyway.

It takes a seriously ignorant film crew member (and this is not steadicam specific) to imagine that they are the reason a film gets made. There are guys like this in all departments - Editors, Dolly Grips, Gaffers, VFX supervisors ... the list is endless.

You will meet idiots in all walks of life, to give all the credit to steadicam operators is unfair in my opinion.

You've met Garrett - I'm sure you'll agree he is not like that. Neither is Larry McConkey. Neither was Jeff Mart.

As far as owning the equipment goes, because it is such a tactile craft, one in which so much depends on the feedback you get from the rig, not to mention the fit of the vest, the response of the arm, it kind of makes sense that it helps to have a personal fit.

Any dolly grip will tell you that they love to work with a specific dolly, and they like it tuned just so. The feedback from the arm, the spring tension as it finds its centre - these are all important. More so with steadicam.

Its like a sprinter going into a race in borrowed sneakers.

The other point is of income - $2000 a day is not what good operators make in all markets. Certainly not in mine. That does not mean that the guys who do earn it should not. The market will pay what it can bear.

If it cannot bear the price, the prices will drop.

Respectfully

Sanjay Sami

Most rigs will be in the 100,000 dollar ballpark, it depends on what your rig configuration is, a TB6 monitor will set you back a lot more than a generic SD LCD monitor. Cables add to the cost. Some cables can be 400+ dollars a piece . Gyros, batteries, the list goes on. The investment is high if you pride yourself as a pro, who shows up with the gear necessary to do the job right. It goes without saying that you will charge more money than the hobbyist who shows up with a Glidecam and one BNC cable.

I'm not sure where this will lead, but I've worked a lot with Larry McC as Key Grip and 'B' Steadicam.

He is impossibly expensive, and arrives with 76 boxes of gear on set. He needs 2 trucks to accomodate his gear.

He is sublime to watch. A true genius. His work can rival what you can achieve on a dolly an terms of subtlety. But he is not just a great operator. He is a film maker who uses his special craft to take the story to a new level. He adds his touch to it.

He also works every day. Through recessions and boom times.

I think true talent will always ride the storm out.

I am 6 ft tall and weigh 235 pounds, but most operators I know are quite a lot smaller. The only operator I know personally who is 6ft4inch is the guy who invented the Steadicam.

Steadicam is about balance and being in tune with the shot and the rig , not size.

All good operators will tell you that.

I think it's funny that I know most of the people in this thread. =)

 

*waves*

Hi Bryan !! Good to see you in Gripland !

Most of the other cranes mentioned seem to be more popular in Europe and Asia and I haven't really used them, but the Pegasus always looked interesting to me.

Hey D,

I remember Chris Centrella telling me he owns a GF-16. It is a phenomenal ride on crane. But I think GFM has not been able to make much headway in America. Shame really , because their stuff is really the best.

If you like the Phoenix, you will like the Pegasus. They are just so similar.

** Shameless Plug **

 

Try a Fisher Model 23 next time out.

As good as it gets ... but maybe overkill Wick ?

Thanks for the replies,

actually I think that the Elemack is not the right choice for south tyrol where I work mostly, as it appears to be to heavy for the lokal productions

Daniel

If you are looking for lightweight, ask Wick to hook you up with a fisher 9 ;)

People still ride on cranes???

Yes ! A lot of operators choose to ride cranes, and not just in the low budget world. It is a much more intuitive, precise way to operate. You can feel the move in your belly and respond. Also a lot of DP's who operate choose to ride. Amongst other things, they can look through the eyepiece, they can see actors eyes, they can spot a bogey before it arrives in their frame ... many , many advantages. Robert Richardson is an example of a DP/Operator who always rides a crane.

Just ensure that you have a Grip who knows what he is doing.

Regards

Sanjay Sami

any thoughts on the pegasus crane? Ridable and remote?

The Pegasus is made by Panther and is very similar to the Phoenix. Both are great ride on cranes (and remote). The GFM cranes are fantastic. The GF10 and GF16 are good for ride on + remote. The GF-9 is strictly remote and the the GF-8 is remote and ride on as well, but very lightweight and not really good for ride on. The Giraffe is fantastic for tough locations. Super fast to setup. I think your budget will decide which end you go for. You will probably get good deals on second hand Pegasus and Phoenix cranes. The GF-16 is a really expensive crane.

Hope that helps

Sanjay Sami

Hello all,

I'm in the market for a crab dolly for my high school film program. I found a mcallister a couple months back but my school couldn't approve the financing in time. I've stumbled across a moviola crab, and the broker is asking what I'm willing to pay for it, so I'm wondering what a usual going price is for these guys today. A range would be great.

 

Thanks,

Ross

Hi Ross,

That question is pretty open ended. It depends on what shape the Dolly is in. All I can say is that if you are getting a Moviola, please make sure you have 4 guys with strong backs to carry that beast around.

Sanjay Sami

Yes it is. Both the 2575 and 2060 heads can be changed between mitchell and bowl bases in a couple of minutes.

I Think he means the tripods. Not the heads. Anyway, it is very straightforward. Oconnor makes 150mm bowl and mitchell castings for their legs. It is easy to switch between them.

I've been watching some behind the scenes stuff of some movies. And I see this alot, the grip will be just behind the operator, following him, with like a 4x4 solid or a double. Is this a courtesy flag for the operator, or negative frontal fill, something else?

 

Thanks.

What is the operator doing? Is he a steadicam operator? If so it may be a windbreak.

...You know students, each shot is a masterpiece, and they have to do the shot that they dreamed up or saw on some film that has no motivation what so ever, but hey they got to get it.... ;)

The one thing I have learnt as I finish my second decade in this business:

Student today .... My boss tomorrow.

Many students that I have held workshops for in their final year of Cinematography school have gone on to become DP's and have hired me on jobs :D

It seems like the track would ride on the idler wheel inbetween the studio wheels (Elemack calls them combined wheels)...

 

Hi Daryn,

Its been about 16/17 years since I saw an Elemack Cricket. As far as I know the Combi wheels have a curvature in them, which means they need round profile tube to run on. I think you will risk derailing the dolly and damaging the track wheels by running them on curved square profile track.

Maybe do the move as a dancefloor setup? Draw the circumferance of the circle and do it straight on the floor? I am not sure if the Cricket does only crab mode this will not be practical.

Your bogie wheels sound like they will not run on curves. send us pictures of the dolly wheels, of your track and of the bogie wheels.

 

Regards

 

Sanjay Sami

www.thegripworks.com

I have looked at all of the measurements, and it looks like I could get away with using the square tube... Clearance, width, height... All look good based on schematics/measurements that I've found/made (using our dolly, Uva's "The Grip Book" and some internet stuff)...

Is there something I'm missing?

Hi Daryn,

If I understand correctly, you plan to run an elemack cricket on fisher square track? Do you plan to rest the studio wheels on the track? If so, what prevents the dolly from falling right off the track immediately? Especially on curved track? Without Fishers irritating drop down bogie wheels to prevent derailment , I cannot imagine how your dolly will stay up.

Maybe I understood you wrong.

Sanjay Sami

www.thegripworks.com