Greg Baumann

Hey Rafael - Query on macro with the Beaulieu 4008zm schneider. To engage the macro, is the little button pushed in toward the body, or is it pushed away from the body? I couldn't find this in any of the documentation for my camera. Thanks for any help.

Hey board ... does anyone know what cameras/film stocks Greg Weaver and Spyder Wills used on Stylemasters 2. It's a Super 8 gem shot on a sound camera back in 80/81. The image quality is quite remarkable, and mark a big improvement over the original Stylemasters. Here's my full review of the film: http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010/5/20/surf-film-review-stylemasters-2-overthought.html

I totally get that. ... Gotta siphon from the camera equipment slush fund for the next filter. And the next batch of film stock... And ...

Hi Greg, the lens looks great , but, by not filtering the lens means it its only running at a fraction of its potential.`(lens and camera) legendary surf spot, grew up seeing it in mags.

Hey board ... just watched Stylemasters, a Super 8 film documenting the surf scene on the North Shore back in the late 70s. Lots of juicy footage here. Here's the full review: http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010/5/18/surf-film-review-stylemasters-sets-bar.html

Hey board ... the final reel of three burned (not to put too fine a point on it) at Rincon, testing all settings on my Beaulieu 4008ZM4. Didn't have a polarizing filter to fit the 300 Canon TV lens, nor a No. 85 filter to compensate for the Ekta. C'est la vie. The reel, for what it's worth, is here:

http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010/5/12/super-8-surf-cinematography-last-rincon-reel.html

If anyone has any comments on the clarity of the 300 lens, I'd appreciate it. Anyone see any inherent flaws in the lens? Thanks again...

Exciting.

Here are the results of a second roll I tested with a Nizo S560 on automatic exposure. Colors are closer to what I expected.

 

Never thought I'd say this, but I'm going to miss E-64T!

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqe4Ho6_YiY

Called two of their stores: Santa Barbara and LA Fairfax. Talked to film desks. No one there was aware of the switch to 100D. No one aware that 64T is being discontinued. When asked if they planned to replace 64T, they didn't have a clue and showed no interest in pursuing the matter. Weird.

Here's another reel shot at Rincon in California. This time with a 102mm Canon lens. Didn't have an 85 filter to correct light balance, nor a polarizer to cut glare. Oddly, these don't seem much worse than the stuff shot with the polarizer and the internal filter on the Beaulieu 4008zm. Which probably points to user error in the earlier stuff.

Can't wait to run some more appropriate film stocks through the Beaulieu. Gonna try the 100D next weekend.

http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010...-at-rincon.html

Not a worry! No mods on the camera. The vignetting is an imperfection I will chalk up to "charm." Thanks for the critique tho. Appreciate the sharp eyes.

Not to bring up a downer, but I noticed that once you open up more than 5.6, you start to get some exposure vignetting. The exposure vignetting can be seen as a thin crescent moon shadow effect on both the left and right side edges of the frame.

 

Has your beaulieu camera been modded to shoot in the HD aspect ratio? The simple solution is to not transfer to the very edge of the frame on either side when you transfer, and to remember that when you are shooting. The vignetting is not horrible, but ideally you don't want to see it at all.

Hey board - Here's a reel shot at Rincon with the Beaulieu 4008ZM4 using Ektachrome 64T. I ran the camera through every setting I could think of, and you will see in the video notations with each take indicating what I had the camera doing. I post this mostly so other newbies can see the results of tweaking the settings as they watch the reel play. Enjoy ...

http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010...rom-a-to-b.html

Ah Andries - 16mm is way outta my price range. Luckily with the Beaulieu I can step up lens power. I have an HV30 with a Del Mar housing that I'm using for water shots. The film I'm putting together ultimately will only use the Super 8 for backstory, lead in, and the ending. The rest is HD video. Cheers.

Is Super-8 the format to use? The images may have some atmosphere but for are an outsider there is very little to see. You need more frame filling events. Super-8 was always recommend to the be applied in close up. It is a consumer format.

For your kind of work 16mm would be better and/or you need to make things happen in the frame.

 

That would mean get on a board/jetski and get a underwaterhousing. These exist for Beaulieu 2/4008, 6008, Bauer Aquarius C-series, Fuji for P1 and AX100. The EWA things should work too. And there are small watertight Eumig's

 

Surfing is not a sport to enjoy watching through a telescope :)

 

Ian ... that's me on the mat. Watching the film is a killer way to learn, eh? Normally I grab both front corners of the mat and squeeze/release to control speed and rocker. Are you saying I need to move my hand that's closest to the face back on the mat's rail somewhere? I know for sure that I'm doing too much drop down the face before turning. An immediate corner into the face upon takeoff, then a stall, I think will but me where I need to be. Cheers dude.

as a layman filmera, it looks like you have no 85b filter for the 64t. Note to mat rider, to get barrelled on a mat you need to dig the rear rail with your hand(back bit on the mat closest to the face of the wave) youll be amazed. keep on filming.

Thanks guys. I can't wait to take this stuff apart piece by piece. I shot three rolls at Rincon Point Saturday, carefully marking settings on the camera, moving through different apertures etc. I'll be able to correlate those readings with the results and it should be educational. The points you bring up are the next step after that. I yearn for the clearest Super 8 I can achieve. Such a beautiful look. I think it's going to be a long-term project. Thanks a million. You guys are great.

Of course, shooting at a beach, for the reasons both myself and Rocket 88 have explained, is a classic 'back light' situation. Thus the natural tendency is for the light meter to indicate an exposure that results in UNDER EXPOSURE of the subject you are interested in, not in over exposure. In your instance you have OVER EXPOSURE not under exposure, so its not the back light situation that has caused you problems. Yes, I think you need to crank up your asa setting by 1 or so stops (and only testing will tell you how much). But this is not the usual situation for shooting at a beach. Usually it is the other way around - you would have to wind down the asa a little to trick the meter into opening up more than it would ordinarily recommend so that the exposure of the subjects is correct. So maybe Rocket 88 is referring to a specific Beaulieu light meter issue when he says that one should deliberately over rate the asa of the film stock for beech shooting. Normally it is the other way around for beech shooting (and for snow etc..). But your case is different, as your meter is simply wrong by a certain amount.

rt

I'm shooting a Super 8 surfing film with a Beaulieu 4008ZM, and I've got about 12 reels back from Yale. I've created shorts of a few of them with iMovie and posted them on my blog, www.spatoutinglory.com.

I'm a novice who would really welcome any critiques the group here can offer. The footage has some serious flaws, and to the extent problems can be diagnosed, I'd appreciate tips to make my imagery sharper with better color. Thanks for your help!

Here's an entry with some body surfing and mat surfing...

http://www.spatoutinglory.com/entries/2010...ody-whomps.html

Thanks again

I have a Super 8-ish blog ...

www.spatoutinglory.com ...

It documents the making of a Super 8/HD video surfing film. would appreciate any input from Super 8 pros. I'm just a beginner. Thanks all.

One way to keep forums interesting and viable is for film advocates to develop their own blog sites. I decided to create a blog that lists the various projects I have worked on over the past 20 years. (I should point out that not all of them are film).

 

The blog also includes Super-8 projects even if they were personal projects. It has turned out to be a really big endeavor requiring writing an article for each and every thumbnail image on both sides of the blog.

 

The point is if we all did this, the forums could serve as a melting pot place where people can discuss the various productions found on all the different blogs.

 

The blog is listed in my signature. If we all had blogs with articles about our projects and things we have worked on over the years , there would be plenty to discuss, here.

I've shot a lot of surfing with my B4008 ZMII. Shooting surfing usually means a lot of sun. Especially in Nicaragua. I've shot in Panama and Costa Rica, same conditions more or less. With the ZMII at 24 fps (using 200t) even at f22 there was still too much light coming in. I would really suggest to try to get your hands on a ND filter set. I know it will be hard but maybe in the bigger cities you can find an old photo store? 64t wont probably give you problems with too much light, but espect to be in the f11-f22 region.. Surfing always looks best at dawn and dusk, but if you have to shoot mid-day id use an ND filter. I usually have my ND8 in front of the lens..

 

Oh and don't shoot everything at 48fps! :P I usually only use about of 20% of surfing footage in the final clip since sometimes the surfers **(obscenity removed)** up, or just don't catch the best waves all the time. Unless you're traveling with WTC pros you'll waste a lot of frames! Just guess it per session and think about the wave conditions. If the waves are really good then shoot close-ups at 48fps. Otherwise 24fps isnt as bad either.

 

Sounds like you're staying in Nico for a long time, i've heard its got amazing waves! Def want to see the end results!

Greg - Yeah three months should be enough to tweak and adjust my approach. Thanks for the fps advice ... Where would you order an ND filter set if you were in the states? Maybe I could get the retailer to send it to Nica via DHL... Do you happen to know which filter set would be best for my/your setup? I'm hoping the morning shoots with less light won't necessitate the filter sets. I'd like to get the F stop down to a middling range to increase sharpness. Cheers and thanks for your help...

Hi,

 

i highly recommend Daylight stock. If it must be reversal: Get the 50D (made from Fuji Velvia) or Kodak 100D. Both available in Super 8 cardridges. Even better is the 50D negative stock available from Pro8mm. You'd then not need to filter with orange 85b.

 

On a sunny beach - even with the slowest stock - ND (grey) filters or a polarizer might come in handy to reduce light, because (as said befor) a 22 f stop is no good. A 5.6 or 8 will deliver the sharpest results.

 

Personally i think the Beaulieus are all crap. I've owned maybe 4 (two of them were R16s) and IMHO the guilliotine shutter is a failure design. The 4008ZM4 shoots 80 fps, which is nice, but keep in mind that these S8 cardridges are not made for this. Try this before you shoot and see if the frame jitter / gate weave is okay for you.

 

Good luck.

Oliver

Oliver, thank you... Unfortunately, or fortunately, the camera decision isn't up for discussion at this point. I'm in Nica and there's not much going back! Maybe a polarizer is doable... perhaps I could get something that simple shipped to Nica. Do you happen to know the proper diameter for a polarizer on the B? Cheers!

Hi, 64t requires a filter 85b, not 85 ( thats my understanding, and i always use an 85b with 64t ) To swing the filter out of the optical path of a ZM & ZMII requires a filter key to be inserted between the body of the camera and handgrip. On the ZM4 with a 6-70 lens, generally the filter is built into the lens, just operated the little knob/slider thing near the iris.

 

From experiance with beaulieu cameras, i've found the iris tends to close down in auto mode, especially if a bright area ( water, sky etc ) enters the frame, take a reading and lock the exposure. As a very rough guide, at 24 fps with 64t exposure should be no smaller than approx F11 on a sunny day, here in the uk, i would opt for f8- f8/11 depending upon subject matter... So if your camera is saying f16-f22 i would be worried...

 

filming say at 24 fps exp is f8

at 48fps exp will be f5.6

 

stick with the lens that came with the camera, unless that canon zoom lens has been properly adjusted to the camera you may get soft images, especially at wider aperatures.....

 

run at least one test film thru the camera and see the results before the day of the shoot

Thanks Andy ... It may just work out that I can run a test roll ... Will keep the board updated...

Adam thanks so much for the input... my responses to your queries below...

Does it have TTL (through the lens) light metering?

--Yeah, the 4008 does that.

Do you have an 85 filter, or does the 4008 have an internal filter (meaning, do you have a switch with a bulb and a sun?). Again, I'm not familiar with the camera, but you need to get as close as possible to those exposure ASA's. If you don't have a filter, expose it as close to 64 as possible and try and fix the color in telecine. Not ideal but will work.

--The Beaulieu has the sun/bulb switch ... so I will set to 40 and the sun switch

Again, does it have an internal meter? It must... If it's TTL it should take care of that for you as long as you set the ASA right.

--OK

NOTE : With water, since it's reflective, I'd suggest locking down your exposure. Take a reading in Auto Exposure, then lock it there. The reason is that occasionally you'll get a good shot of sunlight off the water right through the lens. The response of the camera's auto-aperture will be to close up. That'll darken the whole shot.

--Will do

That was super helpful Adam... thanks Greg

I am planning on shooting a surfing film using a Beaulieu 4008ZM4. I will be shooting on Ektachrome 64T, cause that was all I could get my hands on. Now I'm in Nicaragua, which limits my options.

I have read the Beaulieu manual, but need some more tips on making sure I don't waste my film stock. I never have shot film. Hopefully enthusiasm will compensate for ignorance. I've spent many hours on the forums looking for these answers, and come up fairly empty (or at least confused). A book isn't an option because getting things shipped here is difficult. You all seem the most patient, so here's a test of that patience...

Premises:

-Frame rate. I was going to shoot at higher frame rates because I'd like the film footage to capture some fluid motion that I want to slow down.

-Media. The final product will be a mix of Super 8 and HD video, shown on DVD.

-Distance. Much of the filming will take place at distance: 50-150 yards.

-Light. Quite sunny. Subjects will be front or side lit 90 percent of time. Tons of water reflection.

-Gear. Beaulieu 4008zm4. Schneider-Kreuznach 1.4/6-70 lens; Canon TV zoom lens V6X17, 17-102 mm, 1:2.0; Canon Lens FD, 300mm 1:5.6 SSC.

Questions:

--How does use of higher frame rates affect exposure?

--The camera's ASA settings don't have a dot for 64. Just rough it?

--I don't have a separate light meter. How do I set the camera to adjust for light conditions?

Thanks everyone ... Any input appreciated.

Greg

http://www.spatoutinglory.com

how well would photographs be printed/rendered? seems one has to supply a PDF and then the rendering of the PDF maker would determine how it is done? likely an album printingservice would be better for photo's

I would love to buy the book as a downloadable PDF.