timHealy

You can only learn so much from books and the internet. If you are passionate about learning and improving, move to NY or LA and keep working. It'll take time to meet people and network but it will happen. Think about getting into the union as larger union films do more and build more than lower budgeted non union films in every way. I have had the chance to work with a lot of DP's who have great resumes because I got into the union. I never would have had that opportunity if I stayed small.

About working in film. When you do get film jobs, show up early, keep your month shut, try to save questions for important ones and just do what your boss asks (But if it obviously not safe, by all means say something. Some day you may actually have to walk off a job if it ridiculously not safe)

Is anyone else seeing student/low budget films where it cuts to a mounted car shot and the quality suddenly diminishes due to the tiny thing's compression?

 

I guess you didn't see the Hobbit where the Hobbits travel down the river in the barrels. Big budget movie with a scene with a little camera look. Not sure if it's a GoPro, but it's something similiar. It's not just the little movies.

Any interest in trying quasars? No ballasts, just dimmer pack controlled by a board.

Just saying...

Molebeam is just the Mole Richardson name. Maybe in some older european studio you can find a beam projector. I saw a few old beam projectors at Paskal Lighting in California in the mid 90's. Apparently someone found them in an old junk pile in a studio. They dusted them off and started renting them. During the music video heyday of the 90's, they must have been popular. Mole must have gotten wind of them then and brought them back to life a few years later with the Molebeam tag. I seem to recall I stated seeing them in the late 90's/ early oughts.

They may not be hard to run if you have experience. Most of todays electricians do not. I'm 53 and had the opportunity to use one in the 90's with the help of older electricians at the time. So I would say a good majority of electricians who have experience with them are older than I am or retired. I haven't seen an arc on a job in New York since I worked on a David Watkin (RIP) movie Gloria in 1998.

I can't speak of the manner in which the woman on the phone spoke to you. But she has a point.

I believe Camera Service in NY(Secaucus) has them in storage if you want to give them a shot. Ask for Glenn.

Paramount in LIC probably has them or will know where you find them but I'm not sure.

 

On the other hand, the last time I tried to rent a carbon arc from Mole in LA, the hateful lady on the phone basically told me that because no electrician existed in the world that was trained to operate it, they would not rent it to me. When I advised I had such, Mole basically told me the electrician would have to verify with them the operation of the lamp. I don't understand how some companies stay in business.

 

They declined to rent to a large EU production trying to source as many carbon arcs as possible for the same reason... The problem is not finding rods, the problem is getting your hands on a unit!

 

Carbon arcs are not hard to run. You just need a genny van, lots of heavy cable, and to make sure your buddy didn't replace a carbon with a stick...

Consider this a learning experience and next time you can include types of shots and coverage in your pre production discussions and planning.

Best

Tim

In addition to some of the other financial options, no one here has mentioned a 401k with their employer. My union has one (it took a long time to set up) I try to max out my contributions every year to take advantage of the tax deduction. Or put the tax payment off into the future.

My wife and I also have a two family house. Its nice to get the rent check instead of paying it out.

Some of my friends and peers rent equipment to increase their income. Many production managers would gladly prefer to pay the crew instead of a rental house especially if they can rent it cheaper. That gets harder to do on large studio films who are concerned about conflicts of interest.

I hate to date myself but it reminds me of edition of Cinefex:

http://www.cinefex.com/backissues/issue36.htm

But as far as weapons are concerned it seems only props who have a special movie/tv license can rent them from weapons prop houses who also have a license. Its very regulated as it should be. I looked into it years ago when I was doing something for myself.

Weapons Specialists in NYC is one. But don't do it unless you have a professional with you who will keep everyone safe.

The Maxie Brute is by far,the prettiest light I've ever worked with. I know- it's got its issues, but in the end, on screen- the image, the light from the carbon arch has never (in my mind) been duplicated. I'd buy one today if I knew I could get the carbons.

I'm not sure what you are saying. You like maxi brutes or brute arcs? Brute arcs use carbons and was the daylight option before HMI's. The basic maxi brutes have 9-1k bulbs but there is the 6 and 12 bulb variant. There are other wattage bulbs available and the different very narrow to spot beams.

I think David is right one the money suggesting several flicker boxes for the variety one gets from a fire. But Magic Gadget makes a terrific device called a Shadowmaker. It has three 20 amp circuits (provided you supply it with 3-20 amp circuit power supply). It has quite a few preprogramed effects depending on the position of the 4 programming switches. Its a great tool for small films that don't have a dimmer board and a programmer. It also works for TV and club/music flicker effects.

Best

Tim

PS make sure you plug in the first circuit or it won't work at all.

Oooops. I didn't see the previous post before I posted ....

At its simplest, you're talking about an orange light with some random flicker. In film school, to simulate a flickering torch, I used a 2K zip with Full CTO on it and then waved my fingers and hands around the light in a random pattern to get a flicker effect of dancing flames.

 

A bigger fire that is spread over a greater distance would flicker less strongly, less highs and lows -- you could create an soft light that is gelled orange and then have someone take a small flags and wave it around between the diffusion frame and the source to get a flicker.

 

Or use a couple of tungsten lights gelled orange through a thin diffusion frame and have some fading up & down on a dimmer randomly. I sometimes use three lights through a diffusion frame and have one steady and two dimming up and down randomly on separate dimmers or flicker boxes (Magic Gadgets). But the truth is that often just waving your hands and arms randomly in front of the soft light produces a convincing effect as long as it doesn't distract your actors.

Hey James,

I worked with one of my tabletop friends who tells me that some of the larger food commercial companies has built or rented an actual stove made of pyrex glass on all sides with heating elements inside. They just place some sort of metal grating behind the food so it looks like a stove in the background of the shot. And they light it from outside the stove. So the food looks good and there is not way LED's of wiring for conventional lights don't melt. He wasn't sure where this stove could be rented from and may be built specially from by the companies itself.

Best

Tim

Hey, I don't think anyone answered because this is a rare thing. The only people who do stuff like this is Consumer Reports or NASA. A friend from college was involved with NASA placing high speed film cameras around rocket launches in blast proof fire boxes. Needless to say, that type of box would be too big to put in an conventional oven. You may have to make something for yourself if you really want to a camera in an oven. Or find and oven with a glass door optically clear enough to shoot through and blacking out reflections.

I doubt any off the shelf LED's would survive the heat of an oven. Again you may have to do something yourself.

I work with a lot of guys who do tabletop food commercials, and they go to great lengths to shoot all the food closeups you see on commercials. If they were doing a shot as you suggested they would probably take an oven (or several ovens) apart and prepare them for each different shot they would need to allow for the camera and lighting and for the oven to actual work. But I can ask them if they have ever done this and get back to you.

best

Tim

What David said .. or goal posts ... I assume you don't have money for lifts... You mentioned shafts of light. Are you using a hazer or smoke machine? The shafts of light may help obscure the windows a bit.

I just did a night shoot where we had lights on stands in the shot 100 to 125 feet away from the action and the low depth of field kept the stands out of focus enough it didn't matter. Just saying.

And just asking, how big is this church? Are 2k's bright enough?

Best

Tim

Just released the music video today - thanks for everyone's recommendations and advice on creating a breakaway window. We went with the sugar glass, but as you can see in the vid-it's only on for a split second and we added a layer of glass in post to give it some more shattered pieces. You can check out the video here: https://youtu.be/-_T1sYaeMP8. Thanks again and hope you enjoy!

Hey I thought you cut the window too quickly, like I did not see it actually break. And the angle of your actors arms wasn't square to the window. Its really hard to break auto glass with a fist. But I was thinking about your post when I saw this trailer for Jack Reacher. They did it really well and I think they did it for real. The window seems to break where Tom Cruises fist hits the glass and the stress lines originate from that point. But I guess they could have do it with a really good VFX team too.

Its around 1:30

I see you finished the project requiring glass shattering, however I've found

something interesting on a B-Roll from "The Counselor":

 

"The Counselor" - B-Roll - Car glass shattering - 1m25sec

(The link is at the specific time)

 

It seems there is no glass, but the move of the bat hitting it seems pretty real, like stopping/bouncing off.

And then the FX guy blows off something resembling glass particles.

 

+ one more trick in the FX bag. :)

 

I imagine that is for a shot where they don't see the actual window breaking. Perhaps they already did that prior to the shot you see them doing. The prop guy is probably just blowing fake movie glass, which is actually clear rubber, via a blast of compressed air.

I open the c-stands by placing the longest leg agaist my knee and then opening the legs counter clockwise with hand. That is the "normal" way to do it I think, at least it is one of the fastest ways to do it

Don't use your knee. Metal against bone hurts. I just use my inner thigh to open or collapse. I think Phil gets the idea you should not turn it over by now. If the knuckles or grip head is loose, when you turn it over the risers come out or the arm spins around. You look like a hot mess if that happens in front of a crew.

Some grip stand brands and or models are a pain in the ass no matter how you open them.

Don't buy cameras. the technology changes too much unless you can rent it everyday. Buy great lenses.

Just my 2 cents

Tim

And what size jemball and/or pancakes are we talking about? The bigger the fixture the larger bulb it can take before it bursts into a ball of flames. I also use a bunch of compact fluorescent bulbs in them with medium base Y adapters.

But to answer your original question, I agree with david, why not try a bounce too. Not a crazy idea.

Paint the ceiling black? Paint it back when done.

Tim

I agree with David entirely but David is very good and knowledgable and can handle a day exterior without a gaffer. A lesser experienced DP may need/want advice from a gaffer and or key grip about working with the sun all day, how to progress during the course of the day with the sun/clouds, and have advice about bounces, diffusion and negative fill especially during close ups and the like.

Best

Tim

Depends, each light can be used for a variety of bounces or used direct.

Joker can be converted to a joe leko or a bug light/hmi lantern, but there are lots of little screws that can lost or damaged. Joker can run off a DC battery source. Personally I prefer using the Arri 400 Joe leko. It is much easier design swapping back and forth between a leko and conventional.

The 1200 is workhorse that can be used on a bounce or direct for smallish windows and such

What kind of work would you primarily do? Sometimes renting the lights you need when you need them, can be cheaper than owning in the long run.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but how exactly does one get 5k out of a dino/maxi style fixture. I have never seen one with 5 bulbs, however I suppose you could configure one with 8 650w par36s...

There are lighting manufacturers in Europe that have lights that we do not use in the US.

Best

Tim

Yep, heat can crack glass. Glass is very inflexible. If one portion of the glass is cool and the other portion is getting hot and has no place to expand because of its inflexibility ... bang. Glass broken by heat is usually curved. If you can't keep your hand on a sheet of glass that a light is aimed through becasue it is hot it will crack.

I'm not sure how much fire effect you are asking for. Are you just looking for a way to make a fire lighting effect on and actor and the actual flames will be added in post?

My favorite low budget easy flicker effect is a Magic Gadget Shadow Maker. You can plug in three 20 amp circuits into it to power 3 20 amp lights (or less). It has pre programmed effects. Just adjust the high and low on each fixture (usually a fast flicker is better for flames).

This is a suggestion if you ar slow budget and don't plan on using a dimmer board and building a flicker effect with that.

Best

Tim

And Tim, I'll explore VFX too. That makes me nervous relying on 'doing it in post' though.

 

 

I'm not a VFX expert but you could do something easily using After Effects or some compositing software like Shake. You could shoot the punch through the glass clean with the real windows rolled down and then cut to reactions of your actors fighting (or whatever you had in mind) with the rubber effects glass thrown by a prop at your actor in the car so it appears the glass shatters in the cut. Careful of the eyes though. I would shoot a sheet of auto glass with a black background at the same angle and same lens rigged to shatter on a stage or dark room. A black room would be better. And maybe have a blacked out object forcefully hit and break the glass so perhaps there is a moment that the glass breaks from the center out like a real hand would do. The rig would have to be sturdy if you hit the glass and you'll need something with weight and some mass to break auto glass. And the glass would have to be lit with at least edge lights. It would only be compositing two shots. You could probably get a local collage student to do it. The glass breaking shot would be so fast and quick you'll never see it wasn't done for real unless you lingered on that first shot too long and you don't see glass on the guys arm who broke through the glass. That would be even more effects work, but for the initial hit you could make it work.

Best

Tim