David Peterson

I've almost completed my initial kit out for now. The last remaining items I still need to decide on buying is: a second dovetail (one for the tripod, one for the monopod. The camera already came with one dovetail), a fluid head for the monopod that can handle 10kg or more, and maybe a tripod (as I expect my current one won't quite handle the full set up).

Haven't looked enough into which fluid head, so still quite clueless as what to get! I'd appreciate any suggestions? Am considering a couple already, but they're only capable to a max 8kg payload, which I suspect in a worse case scenario could come up a couple of kilos short.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-JY0506-video-DSLR-Camcorder-Fluid-Tripod-Head-Drag-slider-rail-max-8KG-load/121491999464

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miliboo-MYT801-Pro-Tripod-Monod-Ball-Head-Quick-Release-Plate-for-Canon-Nikon-/271837439808

I'm looking at one of these dovetails:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lanparte-15mm-Slide-Dovetail-Plate-230mm-Long-For-Tripod-Baseplate-DSLR-Rig-BMCC-/370856985673

http://www.ebay.com/itm/45cm-long-Dovetail-Plate-Arri-standard-with-1-4-20-3-8-Hole-InnoCamera-/171787795433

http://www.camtreerigs.com/camtree-19-15mm-base-plate-with-dovetail-tripod-plate-arri-standard.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891108-REG/Wooden_Camera_WC_151100_Safety_Dovetail_8.html/prm/alsVwDtl

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1100200-REG/lanparte_dp_15_dovetail_plate.html

This is the tripod I'm considering:

http://www.came-tv.com/came15t-pro-carbon-tripod-for-red-epic-cage-dslr-rigs-p-573.html

Nope, I'm a PC fan.

Plus I don't want to spend too much on this, as I suspect it will be rare when I offload SxS cards (even though I got given two 32gig SxS cards, considering if perhaps I should sell them?), because I'll mainly/only use SD cards in an SxS adapter. Thus maybe.... the best option for me is to just copy the clips over USB directly from the camera while the SxS cards are the F3?

I usually buy only gear that is impossible to rent from anywhere around me (like Konvas, Krasnogorsk and Bolex cameras) or gear that I use all the time (like GH4, H6 tripod and few basic lights).

Exactly, that is a very logical approach which I'm advocating for.

It is usually not a good idea to buy very expensive specialty equipment like Phantom unless you already have the customers or you want to start a mid size rental house with multiple cameras.

For sure, I just listed a Phantom as a more extreme example. Which as a person becomes more experienced and established will happen more often than amongst newbies, as some of those will go on to establish a rental house. (which would be a stupid idea for a newbie just starting out to do)

When I try to search for "SxS reader" they appear to be absolutely ridiculously expensive, to the point I might as well pick up a used old laptop for a hundred bucks or two hundred, and simply use it and its ExpressCard slot instead to read the SxS cards onto a portable harddrive for editing.

Then I thought, perhaps searching directly for ExpressCards could find cheaper alternatives than looking for SxS readers. Indeed, I turned up this for only three bucks:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB-USB-2-0-to-Express-Card-34-54-Converter-Adapter-Cable-for-Laptop-NEW-HOT-AU-4-/221804882370

But.....

Supports all USB-based express card/34 or express card

David is right in avoiding owning gear. It's more difficult these days because of how cheap digital cameras are.

Which "David"? (kidding! I know you mean David Mullen not me :-P )

I think once you reach a certain level (such as David Mullen, who is waaaay more skilled than I am), not owning your own gear is no longer a hindrance. Problem is anybody starting out is a long way from that point, then the analysis to own vs not to own becomes tougher. And leans much more heavily in the direction of ownership, IMHO.

The best thing to do is shoot, and shoot a lot. The only way a DP becomes a DP is by shooting. Yes you can climb the ladder, it happens. But if you never shoot, you'll never be hired as a DP. Producers hire DP's, not DP's. Of course, DP's will put a good word in for you, but you can't wait for someone to give you the green light. You have to shoot.

The "shoots *LOTS*" (which I agree with) and the "don't own gear" (disagree) I find to be very contradictory statements.

By having your own camera and other gear, you'll be able to shoot at a drop of the hat, and to take on interesting projects that you'd have to otherwise turn down.

I do agree with the sentiment "don't waste money on extravagant gear".

The issue is finding the optimal balancing point between owning nothing at all and having your own personal stable of Phantom Flex 4K + Arri Alexa + Octocopter + Ronin + Technocrane + etc... !

Rare is it a person starting out will find their optimal point to be at either of those two extremes (though the longer you work at this, the more likely you'll find one of those two extremes can work out best for you).

Thus you need to find out where your personal threshold level is at, and where your optimal point is at.

For some people this means merely a secondhand Panasonic GH1 from eBay, for somebody else it means a Blackmagic Cinema Camera, for somebody else it means a RED, for a few (rich trust fund kids whose personal value of a dollar is less than it is to me??) it might even mean an Arri Alexa!

I believe for 80%+ of people the minimum threshold point is owning at least a Panasonic GH1 (or similar, such as a Sony NEX-5N. Either of these go for US$150ish for the body on eBay), together with a couple of prime lenses and a monopod or basic shoulder rig. Total cost? Under US$300.

This is an extremely minimal amount to invest into your career, so at least you don't need to say a flat out "no" when an opportunity pops up to shoot. As you said, the more you shoot, the better!

I reckon even people like writers or actors should consider doing this (though with smartphones being so good, they can work as a substitute for them instead), they might have a little short they want to shoot but can't due to no connections. Well, now they've got no excuses stopping them!

And for a person who specifically aspires to being a DoP, I reckon they should likely set their minimal threshold at a little higher, say the BMPCC level. But this very subjective! And will vary a lot from person to person. For one person a GH1 will be right, for another a RED might be right. You need to access your own personal values and circumstances to work it out.

I myself started out with a GH1 (it was a bit more expensive back then, but still a very cheap buy! Thus is appropriate for me at the time as a complete newbie, with a tiny budget), then later moved "up" to a BMPCC as I got more experience and could afford it. Then yesterday I got a Sony PMW-F3 (which for me personally right now, likely is moving past that "optimal point"... but hey, I got such a good price for it I couldn't resist!).

Nice. So still using the F3 or was that just a one off?

Satsuki, I got it for closer to the price of a used 5Dmk2 than a 5Dmk3!

Phil, FHD 60FPS via external recorder.

Low light is extremely good for its era. No A7s of course, but beats easily a RED One. (Better than a R1 in dynamic range too)

Hopeful I might even use my F3 for a doco this weekend. Will have to rent the Nikon F to Sony FZ adapter however, as mine hasn't arrived yet.

Now today the environment is different than it was when I graduated film school in 1991, when most independent features were shot on rented 35mm equipment. A smaller percentage were shot on 16mm, often by owner-operators, and I debated with myself whether to invest in a Super-16 camera, if only to be able to shoot my own projects. But I realized that once you invest heavily in something, you end up serving the needs of that investment, you look for work for your equipment. But this was a time when film equipment was quite expensive to own, it's not like dropping less than $10,000 for a digital camera today.

 

I don't know what I'd do today because it has become more common for beginning cinematographers to be expected to own their own camera, and then you fall into that trap of rapid digital camera equipment obsolescence. You buy a Sony F3 and soon people expect you to own an FS7, etc. To some extent, you almost can't expect to see a return on the investment, it's a bit like film school, you just hope the camera allows you to build a reel and resume to the point where you'll be free of having to own a camera (or can afford a better camera.)

*OR* you can look at it from the other perspective and make it work to your advantage! ;-)

I'm an aspiring DoP who has been shooting with Blackmagic Design cameras and mirrorless/DSLRs,ranging from US$150 (prime example of the benefit side of depreciation!) for the still quite excellent Panasonic GH1 all the way "up to" the "expensive" (well it was for me by the time I finished kitting it out) US$500 Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. I've been shooting anything and everything that I can (and along the way got to experience shooting with many other cameras too. Such as C300/RED/GH4/BMCC/FS700/FS7), and happily working in other positions too (such as 1st AC, gaffer, location sound), even doing paid acting extra work just for the money and extra experience on set.

Then yesterday I purchased a Sony F3 for not much more over one thousand dollars, I find it astonishing I got such an amazing camera for so dirt cheap! (Though I did invest a *LOT* of time into what camera to get next from the multitude of camera options on offer, and in hunting down deals. Hundred plus hours easy. But I'm still a newbie and learning, so my time is cheap)

This should last me for a while as I work myself up and develop my skills. Then I'll be earning more, and prices will have come down so I'll be able to afford an on sale or second hand Sony FS7, Kinefinity KineMax 6K, or BMD URSA Mini 4.6K

So I look at it from a positive angle, and as I'm starting out I am using fast falling camera prices to my advantage! :-D

Nice to see another Sony F3 user posting here today :-) Check out the thread I made, I just purchased an F3 yesterday.

What have you done since?

Yup! I got it for practically nothing.

I'll be spending far more (multiple times more) on kitting it out and upgrading tripod/monopod for the extra weight, than what I paid for the body itself!

The temptation to wait and get an URSA Mini 4.6K was *very* strong, but that would've had similar (or even greater) accessories cost (plus a lot will smoothly transition across when I do get an URSA-M, such as the heavy duty tripod, rails, recorder/screen, follow focus, and V Mount batteries), and a body that cost several thousands more. So I think I can live with this decision for now! :-)

A little update: Purchased an F3 this morning and picked it up, am now the proud owner of my own personal F3 :-D

This is very interesting, didn't know about this price drop.

 

am I the only person who thinks the F3 image is better then the F5/55 in some cases. i think the F55 is a higher end camera in terms of handling color and maybe latitude, but the image is so lifeless. F3 is nice and soft and kinda like a cheaper alexa look to me.

 

F3 seems better then c300 to me as well.

 

The other camera in this same space that is similar is the new black magic 4.6k sensor ursa mini. I donno if F3 or that is the way to go.

 

I have been looking to buy something in this bracket though for some documentary work.

I certainly think the F3 is better than the C300, it is a bit bulkier however (and even more bulkier again if using the external recorder).

The URSA Mini 4.6K I expect/hope will demolish the F3 in terms of performance, however the URSA Mini 4.6K also costs many times more than what I paid for an F3. So I think I'll take the savings for now, and enjoy the 1080 world at up 60fps for a little while longer :-) Then pick up an URSA-M4.6K on the cheap when they go on sale and/or turn up on the second hand market in a year or two from now.

Great advice Albion! As an aspiring DoP myself that is similar to the path I'm trying to go myself.

I've got low end gear (DSLR/mirrorless/BMPCC kit) to cover all the basics needed (even lighting and audio too, not just camera dept).

Am just about to buy a Sony F3 this week, however getting a RED Epic or Arri Alexa is simply waaaay outside my budget! Plus pointless overkill for me I reckon at my current level of development.

But try to always keep busy shooting as much as I can or being a 1st AC. Even working in other areas, such as sound recordist or even an extra on set (at least being an extra always means getting paid). All just to build up my general on set experience as well, plus getting to meet as many people as possible! Never a bad thing.

All the rental houses in my market have long gotten rid of their F3s. C300s took their place. I wouldn't count on making much rental income from it. But it's a still a fine camera for personal or owner/operator work.

I'm more just curious as to what current market for them is (due to still seeing quite a few advertised for rent online).

As I don't find it too appealing to be rental house myself! Because the overhead in terms of paperwork, contracts, marketing, and insurance, just for an occasional rare small rental does not seem worth it.

For the level of corporate work you will be doing, you will have one video-savvy director/producer and maybe one or two clients who know nothing about cameras. So I really wouldn't worry about trying to appear impressive with big gear. Just bring enough stuff to get the job done properly and the producer will see that you know what you're doing.

Most people are not camera geeks like ourselves and have very outdated or even flat out wrong info. If all things are equal (ignoring the fact the F3 is a superior camera to the 5Dmk2 to start off with), would a person bring back for the next job the F3 guy or the 5Dmk3 person? Likely the former.

Wish appearances didn't matter, and only purely the technical results matter, but nope. It does, it is all part of the marketing game to appeal to the stuffy mens in suits. :-P

Likewise for no-budget stuff, the production has no money or insurance to rent your expensive gear anyway

Oh, don't worry I'm not expecting to be get rich via renting out the F3! (or even get a cent from rentals, as I mentioned above. And if it does impact my overall day rate at all, via wet hires, would only be in a minor and rare manner I suppose)

so instead spend your energy on doing the best job you can, not worrying about what you look like doing it. Use the best footage to build your reel and move on to bigger and better jobs.

Why does it have to be either/or? Why not produce the best work you can and impress the clients with both your end result work and by appealing to their pride? Heck, sometimes it is part of their marketing scheme too! Sharing BTS pics of the "big productions" they're doing for their next ad campaign or whatever.

P.S. I'm guessing that a lot of those F3's in Auckland are ex-Weta cameras used for motion capture witness camera work. We used a bunch on 'Dawn of the Planet of the Apes' when they came up to SF for a few days last year.

Maybe that explains a "local glut" of F3 in my local market and why their prices seem to be a bit lower than on eBay?

This is a subject that exercises me greatly.

"Exercises"?? Huh? :-/

Mostly the last two, for "free" on no budget short films I do, and for personal use, but perhaps more importantly on paid productions to impress the corporate types in suits (or brides and guests at weddings, or whatever it is that the shoot is on that day).

As while my BMPCC is truly absolutely awesome, to them it can just look a bit like a smartphone with a lens on the front of it!

I see in my city (AKL NZ) quite a few Sony F3 cameras listed for rent between US$200 and US$300 per day, do you think that these are just overly optimistic / old listings and they're not getting any bookings?

Mark, I'm looking into getting the F3, if a person is just recording 10 bit 422 ProRes HQ in 1080p 60fps or less, would you say there is no real difference between using a F3 vs F5?

240 is an "NTSC" speed. In "PAL" mode you get 200. Therefore, going from 25 to 240 requires a reboot, or at least it did on the pre-release version I had.

 

Not a great moment in embedded systems design.

This is the norm unfortunately for many DSLR/MILC too (when the offer PAL/NTSC switchability!!! Which shockingly many many of them don't), to get 60fps (a common max for many DSLR/MILC) you need to switch out of PAL mode to NTSC otherwise you're maxing out at 50fps :-/

It certainly is fascinating going through the years as I skimmed over the thread, wouldn't mind going back over it properly to read each post.

Yeah, just use the A7s as normal, and then if you notice rolling shutter is becoming too much of an issue in a shoot just switch over to APS-C mode and it will be "solved" (or at least back down to "normal level", same as most other DSLR/MILC)

A nearly decade old reply!

Be super curious to hear from Dominik to hear how it turned out in the long term, nearly a decade later.

I'm deciding to pick up a used AF100 or C100. The C100 leads in all cetegroies except for two very huge ones for me: the m4/3 mount that lets me use any old vintage photo lens and undercranking.

You're missing an area where the AF100 leads hugely: it is about a half to a third the price of a C100 on eBay. A rather big difference!

Anyway, why do you want to shoot 22fps?? It is a very very odd choice.

btw, I'm half considering an AF100 myself as a very cheap camcorder compliment to a GH4/GH1 set up.

Check out the EOSHD.com forum, out of everywhere, it appears to be the place which has the most discussion about the Samsung NX1.

It is a very impressive camera, with features such as FHD 120fps, and 6.5K full sensor read out.

Certainly for some people it does seem to be the best out of the current "top three" (NX1/A7s/GH4).