Rod Lewis

Wow that's awesome! Thank you very much indeed!

Ok thanks. I've banged my head against the wall too much on this. I'm gonna do some tests in standard 5DMKIII. Thanks for your help, Satsuki. I'll let you know how the footage compares finally :)

Hi Thanks for answering again! This is doing my head in so much! Me and the DOP have been in touch a lot about it. Although he's very busy on other paid shoots now and can't get involved himself, he has given me his thoughts on the matter. He doesn't think it matters too much, unless there are close ups on the actor's faces, (which there are but briefly) and initially he suggested I just hire some Zeiss EF mount lenses and shoot the pick ups on the 5D. For a long time I was insistent that it wouldn't do, and that all the footage must be an exact match, as we had really been through a lot of pitfalls on the shoot (car breaking, roads closing, etc) and I had spent so much money on the short already, (feature next hopefully) therefore the PL mount C300 and Superspeeds were a must in my mind. But months down the line, I am worn down through repeated failed attempts at pick ups through either actors not being available or the weather throwing a spanner in the works (it's all shot in a car at night). I realised that we really only need a few quick shots, and a lot are external shots with just a couple of very brief shots on the faces to match the previous footage. Ultimately I am still prepared to hire a C300 and Superspeeds, but it adds more crew, a proper DOP and also permits to shoot which all comes to about £1k, whereas if there is a way to just wing it on the sly with my own 5D I not only save about a grand, but I can get away without permits hopefully for just some quick pick ups. 5D RAW was my hope of achieving this, as I could shoot it all myself with just my sound guy, a couple of production assistants, as well as my own car camera mount system that works with my 5D, but now it seems that 5D RAW in those conditions could be a bit noise heavy from what you're saying. If I knew for sure that standard 5D would definitely match with enough post work, it'd be a no-brainer, but it's just in the back of my my mind that somehow the shots will just jump out as being from another camera and it'l compromise all the work we've put in. I'm a bit OCD I think! R

Thanks, that's interesting. I've always been aware of the difference in focal length with a cropped sensor and full frame, but although I've made the adjustments a thousand times it's never actually occurred to me the difference in depth of field, although I must have been aware of it on some level to be shooting professionaly. (Not a very technical photographer :unsure: ) But it's good to actually be technically aware of that now... I certainly didn't know about the greater noise with Magic Lantern RAW either. Bearing this in mind, plus the fact that my f.2 would now be f5 (ish), I can imagine I'd be around iso 2000 or so at least so I imagine the noise would be pretty bad given what you're saying. The whole idea of this for me was to try and get the footage to match as closely as possible with the C300. Amazed that I might better off in h264 All-I mode after all my obsessing over 5D ML RAW for so long :blink: With the latest 5DIII firmware upgrades do I even need Magic Lantern at all? I have heard that even not shooting in RAW, Magic Lantern still improves the bitrate. I have no idea if that's fact or not..... The main thing is, that I have already spent £8k of my own savings on this film, and it would be stupid for me to compromise all my hard work by having several shots just jump out as being from another camera. I'd rather spend the £1 extra on hire of a C300 and Superspeeds and car mount for a day and adifferent D.O.P if it means I get the same look. There are others who can stand in for my guy, but I was hoping to brave it on y own. Do you think that with enough work in grading normal 5D footage or h264 All-I in Magic Lantern footage could be matched closely enough that people won't notice? Thanks for your help on this :)

I also understand everything that has been explained to me by the other people in this thread.

www.rodlewisphotography.co.uk I'm not the world's greatest photographer by any means, but I do have some photographic knowledge.

I'm a director, not a cinematographer and I do not have college notes which is one of the reasons I'm seeking answers here, but thanks.

Whoa say wha? Ok, I will need to try and get my head around that one! So, f1.2 on the C300 = f2.4 on the 5D? This is very good info thankyou. I would never have known this. Slight concern that shooting at f2.4 under the same conditions as the previous shoot is going to mean a substantial increase in iso. Not sure how far I can push the 5D. Maybe if I'm using Magic Lantern 5D RAW it'll help? I'm hoping ML 5D RAW will help me match the C300 footage but it's an awful lot to take in by the looks of things. Huge memory cards required and some way of backing it all up quickly...

hey thanks. A lot of the shots were right open at f1.2, but for the purposes of these pick ups, most will actually be closed down a bit because it's car bonnet stuff and I'm trying to keep everything in focus as much as possible. Obviously the light is still low though. Some tests with a Zeiss 1.4 50mm the other night seemed to show that f2.0 at iso 1600 was ok. There are one or two shots though that I will need to try and match the Superspeeds wide open at f1.2 though.. Hoping the differences between the 5D and C300 can be solved with magic lantern RAW.....

Hi! Thanks for reading! First of all I am a director and not a D.O.P, so go easy on me please?! I am trying to grab some quick pick ups in Canon 5DMKIII Magic Lantern RAW for a shoot we did using a PL mount C300 and Zeiss Superspeeds. My question: Using the 5DMKIII now, as opposed to the C300, can anyone advise me on the best choice of lens that might match the Zeiss Superspeeds most closely? It seems to me that it's a toss up between the Canon L (50mm or 85mm f1.2 etc), or the Zeiss Distagon EF Mount f1.4. I'm not overly concerned about the .2 of a stop - more important is getting a look consistent with the rest of the footage in terms of Bokeh and overall tonality. Obviously the idea of shooting in 5D RAW is total flexibility in post, in terms of matching the footage. (I am aware that I am opening a whole can of worms in even attempting 5D RAW and Magic lantern, but I am going to face it head on!) It's possible I'm being too anal about this, I don't know. I've already shot sucker mount footage on my 5D in neutral shooting mode with the contrast -4 and the saturation -2 and it looks kind of ok on my editing monitor, (much better than when I tried it with my Canon 24-70 L), but I just don't want to compromise, as I have put so much hard work into this film and I want to enter it into all the festivals I can. My D.O.P is away on another job, so I can't wait around. I just want to get it done, and I own a Canon 5D MKIII. Please, any advice would be very much appreciated. I had another thread here, where people chimed in, and it ended in happiness and joy (for me anyway), so maybe we can achieve the same? http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=67371 I shot the footage with the Zeiss f1.2 50mm which I hired for the weekend. All I need now (I think) is to add 5D RAW to the equation and shoot the footage again, as well as the quick picks ups that actually have actor's faces in. Or do I? Experts please tell me! Much love Rod

Duh yeah sorry I didn't even read the text. It very explicitly says that it's not for this. My bad. Now trying to work out if I can delete this thread lol.

So, does anyone have an opinion on whether or not this is feasible for decent, shake free shots? http://www.haguecamerasupports.com/car-mounts-suction-pads/hague-sm11-telescopic-camera-suction-mount-rig-for-cars It certainly looks like it could get some great angles, looking at the shots on the page but do you guys feel this is a good idea? I see there are only two suction mounts. Do you think this matters? I'm using a Canon 5D MKIII Thanks Rod

I actually did it! Was even going 60mph at one point. No shake even on a 5D. It's obviously by no means perfect, and probably illegal, especially as I let air out of my tyres but the footage is amazingly smooth! Here are a few pics. I know, it looks a hell of a mess! Massive thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I actually couldn't have done this without you! (Didn't have an arm long enough to make a 'stool' with the sucker to the left of the main one but luckily two on the windscreen worked)

Awesome I can do this with what I have. Will let you know the results. Thanks for your help. Rod

Ah yes I get you. That's so annoying that it's Sunday and there are no shops open to get materials. Dammit! I have noticed that I could actually mount on to the bottom of the windscreen without obscuring my view at all. Perhaps a solution could be to mount the main one with camera to the bottom of the windscreen/shield, and then the other two either side and on the more stable part of the hood where it meets the windscreen? I wouldn't have any length to the sides of the triangle but the windscreen might be quite secure no?

Yeah ok fair enough. Maybe I can rig them so that they're not too far forward and still fairly close. I can appreciate what you're saying. I wasn't sure it would be the right approach but thought I'd give it a go. Last chance tonight with this lense. I'm still not quite sure what you're saying though - lost in translation perhaps. The hood is the bonnet, I get that much. Google images suggests the fender is the side panel. Sadly I don't have any poles long enough to get the other mounts to the point where the hood meets the fenders. At least not tonight and the lens goes back tomorrow. Doesn't stop me getting some more poles tomorrow though when the shops open again. Was only £50 for the lens hire.

Hey cool thanks. I thought about the mounting points and was aware that it might be iffy, but also I was keen to avoid the floppy area of the bonnet, so I was hoping that 4 mounts might be enough to compensate for that. Clearly not. But as you, or someone suggested, about a foot into the bonnet, it becomes very floppy so I'm sure I need to find a way of not attaching any suckers to that area. Maybe the main sucker one on the bottom of the windscreen behind the two near the windscreen? I'll try two cups moved forward as you suggest, but my worry is that they're placed right over where the bonnet becomes very floppy. But yeah, I'll try it. Good idea on the roof for the fourth one. I'll give that a try. I have a feeling I may not get past the 'jello' effect of the 5D though. Zeiss f1.4 lens is lovely and sharp compared to my Canon 24-70, as expected. I'm shooting wide open which is a bit limiting on focus but I'm only as iso 800. Might close down a bit and maybe push it to 2000. I hear that about the limit before it starts to lose it. The slackline I have attached is my kind of safety strap. It runs over the back of the mount and it pulled tight, so even if the sucker come's lose it won't go anywhere. ( I'm guessing). Feel free to correct me on that!

Hi everyone. So I had a go tonight with the set up in the pic attached. I tried to keep the mounts all near the windscreen as the metal of the bonnet/hood was definitely sturdier. I removed the battery grip, and used a hired Zeiss f1.4 (much sharper image) and much lighter than the Canon 24-70. Also I attached another mount via an improvised arm to the top of the hot shoe mount, and I also ran a ratchet strap round the whole car from top, underneath the chassis, over part of the camera plate and back. I'm not sure if this helped. I have the lense for one more night so any advice would be very appreciated! The footage is only slightly less shaky. I'm disappointed because I've spent every minute of the last 48 hours working on this :( Is it just the 'jello' of the 5D? I'm driving an Audi A3 and the rims are 15" I think.

Wow that's some pretty high end stuff you're up to there! I can't take the battery grip off frustratingly because I have lost the original lid. Spent all night looking for it lol.

I've got an Audi and it has only 15" rims, so I'll let a little air out the tyres and drive about 35 mph and see how I go! To be fair, last time I didn't have a strap or anything holding the top of the camera down and also the battery grip and a heavy Canon 24-70L lense.. I'm hoping that if I get a magic arm on top of the hot shoe mount, use a a strap, remove the bettery grip and use the lighter Zeis lense it'll be a bit smoother. Will let you know how it goes!

They're giving me good info, and what they're saying is true, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it's correct so much as another option (with a regard to using a beam rather than mounts). The mount system in my second pic on the BMW was smooth as hell. My DOP used the same system for the last Audi advert. Unfortunately he's un-contactable though, let alone able to work on these pick ups. Not saying I don't appreciate the advice, but sucker mounts do work. I just don't have a DOP for these pic ups so I'm all alone! I've gained some useful tips from these threads though, so thank you to all concerned.

Thats interesting. Maybe if I strap the gear down very tight I can press the hood down hard so it can't flex? If that makes any sense?

Hey thanks! Would you say that the sucker on the left is close enough to the windscreen? So maybe if two were that close out would be better? Thanks. I'll use a strap. R

Great stuff Ian, thanks. You you have any opinion about the battery grip I have in my pic? I'm wondering if the weight will be useful or not. I can remove it - though not sure I remember where I left the original flap door thingy lol.

Hey awesome thanks for this lot. I'll take a good look at that link! :) With my set up in the photo my feeling is that actually perhaps there's too much weight for the mount set up with the battery pack underneath and the 24-70 f2.8. I might do better without it and the Zeiss lens is also lighter. Perhaps I can mount it as close to the windscreen as possible as well. Here was our main set up for the film with the C300 and Superspeeds. The footage is lovely and smooth. This was shooting into the car. I'm now just shooting forwards from the bonnet. Looks a mess and you'll probably notice the camera was uspidde down, but you get the jist: