Carl Nenzen Loven

2 minutes ago, aapo lettinen said:

rather than wine, I think digital cameras are more like cheap beer... they don't age well and at certain point people just want to get rid of them unless they want to collect them for some reason ?  we are seeing lots of +10 year old "digital cinematography" cameras sold for peanuts on ebay and no one seems to buy them because newer technology has too many advantages in most uses such a old camera could be used for.

I have processed enough thousands hours of F5 and F55 footage that I can say pretty certainly that at least the F55 would look way way better to most users and audiences than the F35 in most shooting situations.  But if there is something in the F35 image that pleases a certain filmmaker, then why not use it for a certain project, sure. One could get a used F55 with a raw recorder and accessories for much less than the F35 current prices and like said it would be a much better camera for most shooting situations and projects, but some certain projects could ask for a different look and one might actually WANT TO USE older gritty technology like the F900 or Red One M  for them to get weird artifacts and funny colour reproduction, interesting noise patterns and funny dynamic range and highlight issues.

I fully understand "camera test short film projects" too, I am personally making those every now and then and they can be fun to make. In most cases it is just not reasonable to expect such projects to become "fully self supporting movies" because, well, their sole purpose is to test a certain camera model and show off its qualities to fellow filmmakers and fanboys. Wanted to mention because I think most older video equipment (and also film equipment too) is used mainly for making these "camera test simple story shorts" than to make "actual real movies where storytelling is more important than technology".  If really just wanting to make narrative stuff and tell great stories one could use almost any modern-ish camera and would not be that interested in technology... but it is much easier to be obsessed about technology and tell oneself it is impossible to shoot because not having this or that camera, than to actually just make the darn movie ?  

It was a real eye opener to work many years on nature films / documentaries where there could be 20 different cameras used on a single project and everything was managed to get working well on the big screen in the end

My point exactly.

can you manipulate V-raptor footage to look better than Alexa’s? Certainly!

does some people just love their cameras because they are idiots? For sure.

Granted, except for “Railway to Mauritania” I’m yet to see someone really maxing out the F35. But there are for sure better cameras today.

just not the same camera ?

C

Just now, Max Field said:

I could drop $20k cash on a camera right now if I wanted to, I'm just anti financial gatekeeping. The under 25 crowd would care about cinematography as an artform way more if it wasn't so artificially expensive in certain areas.

Great. I literally didn’t say you didn’t have money.

I just say you sounded sore about it. It’s a sellers market. If you think it is a shit camera worth less and can’t find a proper forum to buy it, that’s on you ?

I see complete F65 packages for less than 5k, if you look hard enough.

C

1 minute ago, Max Field said:

I'm not saying I'd never want to use it, it would be an interesting camera to play around with some day, but people treating their obsolete tech like a baseball card isn't exactly pro-art or pro-education for that matter. Nonsensical prices are what prevent the youth from learning about this stuff.

Yeah, it comes more across like you are just sore about this.

Most of us owners look at them like a classic car we still use. And therefore we treasure them.

As you said, there are a buttload of F3, F55, and Alexa classics. Take your pick and keep shooting.

Don’t be mad because we like taking care of ours ?

(I just made mine run on TB50s, Ronin battery, to get better runtime)

C

3 hours ago, Max Field said:

A 2K camera without "ARRI" on it is simply an extremely hard sell for clients. There's 200 of them but how many human beings on planet earth are aware of it and actively want it for their next project... Maybe 50?

Point being?

Half of the current owners are art film makers, the other spread out on eccentrics/passion lovers of the camera.

Even an Alexa is a hard sell for a client nowadays since FX3 is had for pocket change.

C

On 6/15/2023 at 12:02 PM, Max Field said:

Some F55s and Alexa Classics are cheaper cameras than the F35 at this point though. It has consistently been at $5000-$6500 for the last 5 years now.

Well. It was the last true CCD cam out there, so if that is your flavor, it’s the only option. And arguably the cleanest 1080p/2k image out there you can get.

The footage looks unique. And only 213 was actually made, so there is a limited supply, which isn’t increasing.

And finally, you are just looking in the wrong places. I got mine for $3700 with an odyssey 7q included. The ones posted on eBay is just there to prove a point. Most sell for $4000-5000.

I love mine, and I will probably never sell it. I spent more on it then I bought it for, but it’s a tank. I bet Mr Mullen has his own opinion on this, but Mr Yedlin recently said in a podcast that the F35 was a camera the world gave up on too quickly, it actually is a great cam, just needed some more love.

C

Hey,

I bet I can find someone in here that has some experience making their own gamma curve in the CVP_file editor.

I would love to pick you brain about it. I have fiddled around a bit already, and it seem creating a faux-SLOG3 isn't too hard. Same goes for LOG_C even.

C

What lenses are still in stock? Any photos?

Looking for an Sony Sr-R1, with accessories preferably.

And no, not the SR-R4, the R1 specifically.

C 

On 7/11/2020 at 10:23 PM, Mike Krumlauf said:

I can attest after having used both the Genesis their OLPFs are different, just as the F900 Stock version and Panavision modified HD900F had different OLPFs.

Did you do any moiré tests?

C

On 6/21/2020 at 5:10 AM, Chris Burke said:

My Gemini 444 recorder is hooked up to my Sony F3. A few days ago, all of a sudden when I wanted to shoot something, I turn it on and it immediately started to record. I couldn't it to stop by any other method other than unplugging the power. No choice. When I go to restart it, on all of my  SSDs, it does the same thing, starts to record and can not be stopped. I updated the firmware and then the SSD firmware, but each time I finish the update, it want to do it over and over and over again, until I decided to cancel. That is with one SSD, the other two since updating firmware of the recorder itself,  keep recording automatically without being able to stop it other than unplugging power. It doesn't even ask to update SSD firmware. This is all of a sudden.It was working fine a few days ago, the only change is that I reversed the direction of the HD-SDI cable.(does that matter?)   Then the trouble started. So I swapped out cables and I still have the problems. I hooked the cables up to a different kind of recorder, Samurai Blade and they work fine. I am not sure what to do. Should I get brand new cables or is there something I can do to the SSDs?..........

Did you ever find a solution to this?

Considering getting a G444 soon and sort of want to figure out the pitfalls ahead of time.

C

16 minutes ago, David Mullen ASC said:

You either paint out the camera in VFX or you cut a camera port hole in the wall in the reflection and stick the lens through there... and paint out the hole in VFX.

Not that I know exactly how they did this.

I imagined such.

Thank you

On 10/13/2012 at 6:09 AM, David Mullen ASC said:

 

SoftCons are an older technology -- you might want to test Schneider Digicons insteads, which are more like UltraCons instead of LowCons:

http://cinematography.net/edited-pages/digicon-test.htm

 

Otherwise, there is a relationship between contrast and sharpness, lowering one lowers the other.

Know it is an old thread but would you still stand by this David?

C

Hi,

I have been trying to read up on this but it seems I can't find anything. So forgive me if this has been answered before.



How do you actually do the “mirror gag” much like I attached here. I know skyfall was big budget, so if the answer is just masking and blue screen I get it, but I do know there are quite a few that has done this practical.

C

Sold?

Let’s the the usual talk out of the way. Yes I know PV is PV, but I have see. These EVFs in the wild since after Panavision threw them out.

Heck I have even seen two PV genesis is private possession.

With that known.

I am looking for the Panavision EVF for the F35.

I have been looking at aftermarket ones as well, but seems they aren’t worth the effort.

//C

Hi,

I’m trying to find if anyone happen to have an old service manual or anything similar on how to take apart the F35.

I am in the midst of getting my own but I want to be able to figure out how to service it myself.

And potentially replace any broken parts (such as fans and so on).

//C

2 minutes ago, Tyler Ruvo said:

Hi all, new to this forum and I own 2 Eclairs, an NPR and an ACL. I've put stock through both of them and while I love what I get from them, I have some upcoming work that doesn't call for 4:3. I was wondering if anyone on here knows of any non-projector lens anamorphic solutions I could explore. The ACL has the standard Cameflex mount with the c-mount underneath, the NPR has a c-mount on one end of the turret and an Arri Bayonet on the other. I know it's a long shot but basically I'm asking if anyone knows of any anamorphic lenses for any of these mounts, or that can be easily adapted. My current idea is trying to get LOMOs onto the ACL through an adapter. Obviously I should just get these cameras overhauled already, and I plan on send them to Les Bosher once I have the cash to burn, but until then it's either gonna be anamorphics or lens-matting. Cheers. 

First things first.

I can’t speak about other cameras, but Les has ZERO customer service, and QC. He supposedly converted my previous ACL to a super 16, but did not alter the timing, nor adjust the shutter (which Bernie at Super 16 inc said is a minimum).

When I sent it back to him, on my dime, from California, he didn’t fix it, just shipped it back, said it was ok, and stopped replying to emails. Horrible treatment and would never advice anyone to send their gear there.

as for you going anamorphic. You have a lot of options because it is c-mount. I tried it with the Panasonic adapter on front and it sort of worked. My lens had a spinning front element so it looked a bit weird, but I made it work.

A friend of mine tried the SLR magic route, but regardless, there are a lot of options out there with front mounted elements.

I would probably see if I could mount a front mount to a set of Veydra primes and go from there...

SOLD

SOLD.

On 12/26/2018 at 12:09 PM, Colin G Worley said:

New price = $6000, plus Chrosziel MB 450-01 Mattebox, and set of 19mm rails included.

Where did you buy the front mount from?

C

5 hours ago, Baltasar Thomas said:

Hi Carl, what's that mount, cameflex?

Sorry should have added that. Arri-B

C

I know this is probably not the right time to sell this but since I sold my Eclair this have been collecting dust.
She looks a bit worn, and front element has a little nick, but last footage I saw from this still looked great.

This is a R16 lens.

Also included is an adapter from RAF camera to use screw in 77mm filter. (I had an anamorphic adapter on the front element before)

I looked online and tried to figure out the average price and saw a lot of different prices. So it’s $450 OBO really.

Buyer pays shipping.

5 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

My question is, how will you quantify success? You aren't the producer who is paying you to shoot footage, so how do you know the result will be accepted by them? 

Agreed. But then again, same as before pseudo discussion.

Arguing why you want film is a decision for producer to pay, arguing why you want anamorphic is for producer to pay...etc etc. I do understand this. But I think I rather just step off here.

You have proven your point, and yet again no one knows the result, so when this is all over I will trek to a rental house to test this out. Maybe I am completely bonkers and have no idea what I am doing, or maybe it will look great. We shall see.

C

1 hour ago, Andy Jarosz said:

The reason you're getting backlash is just that you're just trying to do a weird, unnecessary thing. If all you want to do is see how it looks, call up a rental house when Corona is over and go spend a day testing everything.

Right...but also isn't that what this medium all about as well. Even if it might be better to shoot on cooke anamorphic, and alexa mini, some people still tend to prefer the Kowas on a RED Epic.

There are so many reason why anyone would like to do something regardless of their reasoning behind it. And personally if I like the image straight out the camera a lot more than a 4k pocket, and I have access to an F3 for a better price (even with the mentioned upscaler), would it be wrong for me to try?

But also, I do agree, best to do is testing, hence why I sort of left the thread be, because going to a rental house and see will be the only way for me to figure out if it is worth it or not.

1 hour ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I know both cameras and the F35 will blow the doors off the F3.

I mean that goes without saying. If I get it to work on the F3 and then later apply it to the F35 when I can afford that, that was the thought.

1 hour ago, Tyler Purcell said:

That's great and all, but don't expect people in a discussion group to be silent about things like this. MANY of us have done upscaling work on our own projects and we know exactly what the end result looks like. The benefits are really for youtube only, the higher bandwidth file means better playback. On Vimeo, (and professional streaming platforms) this is a non-issue. Again, if your client wants 4k, then you will not pass the test with your 1080p cameras. Upscaling doesn't make anything crisper or clearer when you're dealing with camera original files like Pro Res. 

Yeah, hence why I am wondering if it happens in the acquisition if there is any gain, before the file is actually compressed. I am going to do test myself when the C-19 is over probably, but from what I am understanding here is that no one that has posted has used this hardware before, so frankly does not know, and that I am advised not to do this.

C

29 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Any real client will have a real editor. They'll know right away if it's shot on 1080p or not. I work with 1080p originals AND 4k/6k/8k originals all the time, the difference is night and day. There is NO WAY you can pull the wool over the eyes of a "modern" editor. Who will intern, go directly to the producers, who will go directly to you and say "what the **(obscenity removed)**", because that's what I would do. 

Heck, I have directors who refuse to shoot in 4k these days because they want to finish in 4k, so they have to start with a higher resolution, so they can punch in and do corrections in post. The amount of punch-in work I do these days vs only a few years ago, is staggering. It seems everyone is shooting one focal length on some shots and simply using the computer to do zooms and focal length changes. I've even started using the same technique on my own videos, trying to save a lot of time in production where the cost is so high. 

So if you shoot 1080p and try to deliver as 4k, you're going up shits creek without a boat, let alone a paddle. It will only take one producer to be pissed to end that journey. Doesn't matter how much you like the color science of a certain camera, resolution DOES matter in 2020 and the bare minimum is 4k these days. We're doing 16mm scans at 4k for gosh sakes! 

As mentioned before...I appreciate the input but it is a pseudo discussion. You could even debate if you effectively actually get 4k from the S16, or rather a 2.5k upscaled, but that isn't the discussion. 

My goal would probably be to test it on a F35 and F3 just to see what the result is.

If the overall file and result is still sharper and better than a DSLR 4k, I might do it for my own projects still.

C