Raymond Zrike

It's kinda hard to give recommendations without being given a budget. Have all the money in the world? Get the Zeiss Ultra16s or Cooke sk4s. Have a mid-budget? Get Zeiss Super Speeds or Optar Illuminas. Have no money? Adapt still lenses to c-mount (although unfortunately you'll be stuck to mostly long lenses). As for zooms, if they actually cover super-16 (a lot of the eBay listings lie about that), they usually hover around $3k-6k (your Canon 8-64mm, Zeiss 11-110mm, etc). You could alternatively get a full frame zoom, but the only one that goes down to a normal focal length on super 16 that is not wildly expensive is the Tokina 11-20mm T2.9. That is also an incredibly shoot zoom range. The Sigma 18-35mm T2 isn't a bad choice, but at $4k, you might as well get a legit super-16 zoom.

As someone who isn't loaded, I've got the following for my ACL (which has a similar mount to your NPR): 16mm Optar Illumina PL, Zeiss 25mm Super Speed MK2 PL, Zeiss 55mm Otus F-mount, and a Zeiss Digizoom 6-24mm B4 with an IBE adapter. The key is regularly checking for good listings on eBay and on this forum.

3 hours ago, Mikey Collins said:

Anyone have any sources that show framing of different focal lengths for super 16 of say, a mid-shot?

Do you mean visualizing what different focal lengths look like on super-16? There are a couple good director's viewfinder apps. I quite like Artemis Pro.

Curious what lens that is in the first picture?

I believe 3D printing services are a bit different than a metal shop—from my little bit of research, it seems you can get a small quantity or even just one printed. I was looking at one printing service and they quoted $12 for an aluminum print.

I have another part that I want printed for my Eclair ACL anyways, so I’m going to get that made first and see how it goes. Then maybe will do the c-mount to m4/3 mount!

Very interesting. If it’s that simple, maybe I could just smoosh together a m4/3 mount and a c-mount in Blender or something and send it off to a 3D printer. I’d have to learn Blender first lol, but anything for art!

I’ll give your method a shot first though. I think the difficult part would be maintaining the accuracy of the focus scale, but personally I just focus through the viewfinder, so this could be viable for some shooting situations.

Wow this was more complicated than I thought it was. Thanks for everyone's input. Lots to chew on.

On 4/29/2022 at 9:34 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

Don’t you want to first match field of view and then figure out how much to adjust to match depth of field? Otherwise you’re talking about two different image compositions / sizes.

I have a Zeiss Digizoom (made for 2/3") that I am using on super-16 with an IBE B4 to PL adapter. The adapter essentially keeps the field of view that the lens had on 2/3" by magnifying the focal length by around 1.35x. Drawback is that it takes away a stop of light and that the maximum input is T1.9.

I was considering getting a Zeiss Digiprime 10mm T1.6 that I saw on sale and wanted to see what it could take the place of in my super-16 rig (at least when it comes to depth of field and FOV, not lens speed).

On 4/29/2022 at 9:56 PM, Dom Jaeger said:

Using that calculator and the automatic CoC values, an equivalent lens to match the field of view and DOF of a 2/3” 10mm T1.6 lens on S16 would be around 13mm at T2.1.

Thanks! That's about what I was thinking. So the Zeiss Digiprime 10mm with the IBE adapter would essentially be a 13mm T2.1 when it comes to depth of field and a 13mm T2.7 when it comes to speed (given the adapter's max light input). I contacted IBE, and they said there shouldn't be any issues using the adapter with a lens faster than T1.9; the exposure just won't change at anything faster than that T-stop.

Those results look fantastic! Not sure why I had never seen this thread before you mentioned it elsewhere.

On 9/18/2021 at 8:53 PM, Allyn Iwatsuru said:

Sorry I never got back to this question. Here are the links to the adapters.

What process did you take to combine the C-to-M4/3 adapter and the extension tube? Did you manage to keep infinity focus (although that isn't much of a concern for something so wide)?

Changing sensor/film size (while distance, T-stop, and focal length stay the same) shouldn’t change the total depth of field, right? These online calculators say otherwise: https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html, https://dofsimulator.net/en/. Try just changing the sensor size and you’ll see it affects their depth of field readings. Am I wrong or are they wrong?

I’m trying to figure out what super-16 lens would get an equivalent depth of field for 10mm T1.6 on a 2/3” sensor.

PM'd.

Anybody got any Cooke zooms they’re looking to sell? Either super-16 or 35 (not regular 16). Curious what’s out there.

Good point. I just wish he'd give me some sort of timeline like "that'll take six months" or something. Will try my luck again.

2 hours ago, Heikki Repo said:

I contacted Les

You actually got in touch with him? Phone or email?

Great looking camera package btw!

On 4/9/2022 at 6:02 AM, Gregg MacPherson said:

You can now place wanted adds on eBay. Don't know if it costs.

I don't think eBay has had wanted ads for about 10 years now, but somewhat similarly you can save a search and get notified via email if something is listed.

4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Limit the number of emails or calls,

I agree in general, but I don’t think anybody is going to get in contact with Les unless you keep trying to contact him repeatedly over time. Du-All picked up the phone immediately when I called—which I respect!

I definitely should have gotten his name. I believe he mentioned he was the son of the guy who started the place, so maybe that’s helpful.

4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Both (he) and Andrzej at AZ-Spectrum will work on Eclair bits up to & including conversions however (it will) always come behind equipment sales and can unfortunately sit on the shelf for months before completion."

That’s essentially what Du-All told me also. Very reluctant to work on an ACL given other obligations. But I just consistently said the check-up probably wouldn’t be too complicated since the camera is already in good shape, and he seemed more open to that.

I think another key thing to say is that you’re fine with hitting a dead end if it requires a part that doesn’t exist. He seemed worried that he’d hit a roadblock regarding parts availability and then I wouldn’t pay him for his time. I essentially assured him that wasn’t the case (and that my camera wouldn’t likely need any parts). Probably best to have a donor for-parts camera with you to really do it right though! 

Just talked to Du-All. He’s hesitant to take on another ACL (says that he has one that he’s working on that’s been sitting on his desk for a while) because of the lack of parts/support. But since my camera is in pretty great condition already and really just needs to have the mount put back in spec and that sort of thing, he said I could drop in sometime and he’ll check it out. So I don’t think he’ll be working on ACL motors or anything super complicated like that anytime soon, but a general check-up is a possibility.

He also wasn’t aware of anybody in the US who services ACLs. I mentioned Visual Products, and he said that Du-All was actually who trained them on servicing ACLs back in the day (he is unaware of if they still service them).

Also mentioned that I think the previous owner had Super 16 Inc service my camera a few years ago, and he acted like that was bad news ? . I guess Bernie started making mistakes toward the end? Or maybe just a bit of a repairman rivalry. Not sure.

On 4/13/2022 at 5:10 PM, Gregg MacPherson said:

I offered him the parts drawings (of course)?

Anything I should bring with me besides the camera? What’s the parts drawing?

That’s good to hear. I’ll just pepper him with emails and calls every so often and will hopefully get a response at some point.

Do you know for sure that Les Bosher still makes mount adapters for the ACL? I’d love to get ones for EF and Leica M (I have his PL mount), but I’ve tried contacting him so many times over the last six months with no response (phone and email). Has anyone else had better luck?

I also intend to try pursuing Du-All to see if they could do collimation. They’ve never answered my various emails (haven’t tried calling yet). What’s with these repair places not answer emails? Lol.

New Jersey is a lot more convenient than Ohio for me (I’m in NY), so I’m crossing my fingers for Du-All, but I’m also thinking about just going out to Visual Products, dropping my camera off, and then maybe visiting some family in Indiana.

Interesting. I’ve watched that short before and definitely never noticed any issues. Maybe it runs quieter after modification for super-16? Anyways, thanks for the input.

I'm wondering, where have you seen others using the regular magazines for super-16? I read somewhere that it would scratch the film. I would love to have some extra mags, especially since I broke one of my 200's while trying to get the stupid thing to close haha, but I can't sacrifice the super-16 framing.

Still available?

SOLD

M43 is in a sense a modern version of the c-mount: highly adaptable, simple, made for smaller formats. I'd still want to maintain compatibility with PL lenses (I have some PL glass already and also for scenarios when I can rent Ultras), but there are a number of M4/3 to PL adaptors out there (don't know how reliable they are). I wonder if my Les Bosher PL adaptor would still work after the hypothetical conversion? Maybe with some shims. It's a very interesting concept!

5 hours ago, Ruben Arce said:

The problem is everybody like the ideas until you try to sell the actual product. People just want .stl files to print the stuff for free.

5 hours ago, Heikki Repo said:

So, if you have some estimates of the cost, please let me know!

Me too! I totally intend to buy if a micro 4/3 adapter ever were made. It would open up a lot of possibilities. Venus Optics 6mm/7.5mm/10mm T2.1, DZOFilm 10-24mm T2.9, Vazen and Sirui anamorphics, Voigtlander 10.5mm/17.5mm/29mm f/0.95, etc. Besides all these lenses being dramatically cheaper than any PL alternatives, they’re also developed with the smaller format in mind, so hypothetically, they would be considerably sharper on super-16 than most super-35 lens. Plus the benefits of faster lenses and wider focal lengths.

Okay, I don't have pro levels of money to spend, more so “prosumer.” I just spent a sizable amount on a B4-to-PL adaptor, so I’m not averse to high adaptor costs. Although of course it is always nice to spend less ? (plus I assume this adaptor wouldn't have a glass element which is usually what causes the high cost of some cine adaptors).

I’ve definitely seen some interest for such an adaptor online, and considering the dramatically rising price of Super Speeds, it’s very appealing.

On 1/30/2022 at 5:36 AM, Pavan Deep said:

I think here a simpler version of the ACL will be popular, a camera that is small and can accept different sized magazines and that can take c mount or Micro 4/3 lenses

Are you referring to the ACL or a hypothetical camera that is similar to an ACL? As far as I've been able to figure out, I don't think there is a way for an ACL to take Micro 4/3 lenses. I would absolutely love a super-16 camera that could take those lenses. Would open up my projects to a lot more possibilities.

B&H has 50D, 200T, and 500T in stock currently, but only 400' rolls. Just FYI.

34 minutes ago, Heikki Repo said:

There was previously a set sold under the name of HD-144 for ACL conversion, that included a 144 degrees shutter.

Sort of off topic, but do you know the reason for the change to 144 in that conversion? My ACL has that super-16 conversion with the 144 degree shutter. Just curious.