Will Montgomery

There's also the Kiev-16UE.

I have one in a closet, haven't had a chance to test it out yet. It's more of a "home movie" camera but there is a motorized version.

Also, if you don't mind winding, the Kodak K-100 can be outfitted with a reflex lens and they are extremely reliable and built like a tank. The K-100 has the longest wind out of any 16mm camera I know too... it lasts almost a minute.

On the Arri S, I happened to catch the documentary "When We Left Earth" this weekend and it was wild to see a row of cameras capturing a lift off and out of the 6 or so cameras visible, like 5 were Arri S's. About 1968 or so I believe.

Duall did mine about 3 years ago and basically drilled out the viewfinder to make it wider, I think he charged $120 or so above the normal conversion for it. Not perfect, but I can see more to the right side than before. Of course the S16 conversion was just an enlarged gate, not actually resetting the mount to be centered.

Bernie O'Doherty at Super 16, Inc. did his laserbrightening process on it and I was amazed at how much brighter the viewfinder was. Check with Bernie about doing that on your camera, I highly recommend it... maybe next time you send it in for maintenance.

For those of you that have used Spectra, do you feel comfortable sending in your film from afar (NYC) and letting them handle everything i.e. unsupervised?

Yes, absolutely. My earlier negative comments were limited to a transfer several years ago and I'm more than ready to give them another try. Their actual color adjustments were fine. They are a great benefit to the Super 8 community and should be supported.

As with any transfer, you should give some guidelines as too the mood and style you're looking for. Options are limitless. Even if you just say "vibrant and saturated" or "muted and 70's looking" that will give them an idea of what you're looking for.

The great thing about Spectra is they are a one-stop shop and you can simply send any type of stock to them (including their own or Pro8mm's) and within 10 days you'll have your film and transfer back ready to roll.

Hmm..very intriguing. Just spoke to Scott at Pro8mm to confirm if this is still available and it is...$795.

$795 includes the camera and a case, for $495 they'll make the modification to your 814.

You can always spend $500 and have Pro8mm modify your 814 to properly read the stock... ummm... maybe not.

http://www.pro8mm.com/pro8_pdfs/Press/Pro8...s%20release.doc

If you like to use auto-exposure, this feature is killer. Beaulieu really set this camera apart with that feature.

I actually just use it as a built in meter and manually adjust the exposure to keep it from "breathing" and I feel better at compensating for back lighting and such. For this, I do like the 4008; it's a little easier to set the exposure manually than on some cameras.

I wouldn't bother with the zenitar 16mm fisheye f2.8 for your krasnogorsk, a 28mm prime seems to look just as wide and 28mm macros are also availiable so you can have subjects very close.

 

trust me, i paid £115 for my fish-eye and i only use it on my 35mm slr

Ummmm, there would be a major difference between a 16mm and a 28mm prime on a K3. If you don't believe it just take the stock zoom lens and look at the difference between 17 and 28mm.

The 16mm actually works well on the K3 if you have the cheap Super 16 mod (just a wider gate) as it is slightly wider than the stock lens but covers the entire Super 16 area.

The Beaulieu is overrated because: 1) It is WAY overpriced 2) It is not a quiet camera 3) You play like heck trying to get a battery pack for this if yours fails.

I have to agree with this. As has been said, the 4008 is a GREAT camera, but in addition to the reasons above I'd add that it's simply awkward in use. Manually adjusting the aperture isn't easy and the auto zoom is also not well placed and stiff if you do it manually.

Do French people have really small hands? (just kidding!!) that handle on the 4008 just feels strange.

The main reason it's the most overrated is because of how much hype there is around this camera... even if it is the best one, it's still overly hyped as THE camera to own when there are plenty of good alternatives (unless you need the manual asa adjustment which is perhaps the part that isn't overrated.)

Yeah, I found it. Interesting but at $995 seems expensive though. I paid $750 for the camera!

$750 for a 1014xl-s? Really? Nice camera but... really?

Where would I buy the A-minima rolls? I haven't seen them before.

Just call Kodak direct and order from them. They keep most major stocks in A-Minima loads. See if they have or will load some B&W ones too.

Bjorn Anderson will make that camera better than new.

Problem is by the time you're done it will cost you more than the camera itself did. But then you'll have a great camera in perfect shape. We're lucky that there is someone left on the planet that can service these to such a level. It is truely worth it.

Focus: Even though those cameras have great lenses, there are difficult to focus. The only tip I have is to zoom in all the way on your subject, focus, then zoom out. You might consider picking up an inexpensive wide prime C-mount lens where focus is less of an issue and handling the camera is easier but only for non critical shots. Something like this Pentax can do the trick. Plus it's very fast. Not the best glass in the world but easy to use and fun for family shots. Makes the camera much lighter and easier to use.

Lens Link

Speed: A ZM 4008 should have a mark for 24fps just above the 18. It doesn't have to be perfectly on there unless you're trying to sync sound and then you probably have the wrong camera if that's what you need.

Thanks for posting the photos, yours looks like an earlier version of this...

I hadn't run across this version and was interested in it's specs.

Has anyone run across one of these cameras? The most recent version of SmallFormat shows an old ad for one in an article about brochures and packaging for cameras.

It looks like a well built little news gathering 16mm camera possibly from the mid to late 70's with interchangable lenses.

thanks for the info. what type of film should I look for with 16mm cameras?

16mm. :rolleyes:

Call Kodak directly at 800-621-FILM (3456).

Ask them to send you (2) rolls (or more) 100' rolls of KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Camera Film (Product #7285, $36 or so each).

You can have it processed many places via mail order... Cinelab is a sponsor of this site and could do it for you.

You could show this film on a projector if you like or have Cinelab transfer it to video.

Just keep in mind that the faster the stock the grainier it will be at the time of the "pan and scan."

 

I usually try not to go higher than 200 ASA for something like that. Although overexposing 500T 2/3 of a stop has worked OK, I find 200 ASA for R16 "pan and scan" to 16x9 is pretty much at the edge grain wise even with a grain-reduction app like Da Vinci 2k.

 

Unless you REALLY like grain, that is.

50D on a sunny day is amazing in this application. I have however shot V2 500T inside under decent lighting and had acceptable results. Noticeable grain yes, but not horrible. The trick is not to use fast stocks as a substitute for poor lighting.

I've had my last few Super16 projects telecined at 1080 24P to a DDR directly from the Spirit, then saved to ProRes HQ QuickTime files on a firewire drive for the edit. This is the best workflow that I've found yet. The quality is a notch up from DVCPro HD files (and you don't have the anamorphic pixel issue). It works out to about 1GB per minute.

I've used a Millennium directly to Final Cut Pro's ProRes HQ at 1080 24P as well. It saves much time in copying the files vs. uncompressed (which of course translates to big money) and the quality is excellent.

That is of course if you're finishing in HD... I haven't figured out a decent delivery method in HD yet as I haven't even picked up a Blu-Ray player. I can send 720p to my Apple TV but that of course butchers the quality.

Please people. The NSA monitors EVERYTHING, not just one post. It's their job and they do it quite well.

They certainly wouldn't let anyone know they were paying special attention to something as clumsily as that.

Will,

 

Sorry my ignorance, but when u dv-convert anamorphic r16 the telecine gate is cropping the film frame above and bellow right? I am now banging my head on the table thinking why I haven't done it in my last telecine...

Not sure if it's technically the telecine gate that's cropping the frame, it's basically zooming in and squeezing it left & right (or simply stretching it vertically depending on how the particular machine does it).

Yes, it's better to have this done during telecine as the machine can optically enlarge without loss in quality but if you try to "zoom in" with Final Cut from a standard 4:3 transfer (when working in true anamorphic) a big quality loss is noticable.

Keep in mind that you can "pan & scan" during the transfer as well to frame properly. Takes a little longer but certainly worth it. Another thing I sometimes do is layoff the 16:9 anamorphic then go back and transfer the full 4:3 frame right after it just in case I find something I need in the cropped areas later.

I do however notice a slight increase in sharpness when working in Super 16, so that extra bit of negative really does make a difference although standard 16mm handled this way is still very very good.

If you keep the anamorphic workflow through the entire process and your final output is anamorphic DVD, then you'll be really happy with the results on a plasma or LCD widescreen.

I currently output both Super 16 & Regular 16 to anamorphic SD or 16:9 HD since everything I create is 16:9 these days.

For regular 16mm I crop the top and the bottom and stretch it vertically to fill the frame. There's a little math involved to get it perfect, but the result when imported into Final Cut Pro works great. Just tell Final Cut that the clip is anamorphic and *poof* you've got a 16:9 clip that works great and uses all available pixels in SD. Same for Super 16 but less cropping.

My transfer house has a setting saved for me whenever I show up and it's really easy to do. Their monitor can be set to 16:9 and automatically stretches it back out for viewing there. That's on a Y-Front for SD.

Generally I will transfer to DigiBeta with a DV backup. I use the DV (with the same timecode as the DigiBeta) for editing and if the piece is worth it I can always import the DigiBeta and reconform for that.

I can understand and respect teaching that which makes a skilled technician, and the tools by which to compete as such in an industry, but I can also understand and respect even more those who don't lose sight of the fact that artistically, only they can know, and the world should find out as they see fit to show it, what the best medium for their creative expression is.

Every teacher in these schools has different opinions, perhaps in the next year she'll have someone that feels that way or at least encourages exploration of film just as much as digital.

I went to a major music school and found every teacher to have different ideas on artistic approach and that's what makes it great. Often they actually force you to do it their way and at the end of the class say now go out there and do your own thing your own way... strange but good for developing varied skills. The idea is to make you try it their way early on and take what you want from the experience. At least you will have strong digital chops and that will honestly be more marketable in the short run, but film experience will benefit you in every way... from lighting to framing to planning your shots.

I was waiting for Tim to chime in. His tests are pretty impressive and prove standard 16 is an even better option now with modern stocks.

This may sound obvious, but keep in mind that focus is critical with these cameras to get the most out of them. Take all the time you need to make sure your subject is as sharp as possible. Consider renting the best lenses you can too, that makes a big difference.

Will,

 

Your lab will process 100 feet of T-Max black and white film, using T-Max chemicals and the T-Max process? I didn't know of any lab that could or would do that.

 

Best,

-Tim

I stand corrected, just talked to my lab. Because of the drying situation they can't do 100ft rolls. He however did say he was sure there was a lab in LA or he even said in Kansas (Dwaynes? That's the only lab I know there) that could although he couldn't think of the name at the time. I however do not say that it is possible as I opened my fat mouth without actually checking.

Since you're talking b-roll and if your film shots will have decent light (outdoor b-roll in full or partial sun) you could also consider a Canon Scoopic MS or MN. Especially if you're considering a Bolex. I've found the lens on the later Scoopic models to be remarkably sharp with modern stocks in the middle F-Stop range.

You could buy at least 10 of these in pristine condition for the price range of an A-Minima. They are of course only 100FT rolls but they are the easiest 16mm camera to load ever created. These are only Standard-16 too and that should certainly effect your choice, but I've telecined some shots with Vision2 50D on a Millenium machine to HD and been really amazed at the quality.

Perhaps you could pick one up to test since they are so cheap and simply keep it as a backup. They are really small and easy to get into tight situations.

The major negatives are: a fixed (but good) zoom lens, 100FT loads, somewhat noisy, No Super 16 (without MAJOR reconstruction).

Major Pluses: Easy and quick to load, very small, inexpensive, reliable (in my experience)

Northwest Film Forum:

http://www.nwfilmforum.org/

....has one of JK Camera's digital workprinters, but it's only Regular 16. I think they may have converted it to video as well. Actually, some of these new point-and-shoots could probably be adapted to something like this; there goes your shutter issue. I've been very interested in this device for a while, can't afford one (Jakko wants $7500 for one), certainly can't afford the next step up in "quality" (Cintel Ditto). I imagine the servo contol of a projector would be very easy to program, using basic stamp or arduino or something like that.....I like the RGB LED idea on the Cintel....what's the best (gentlest) projector movement to use? And what about turning this whole thing into a lens attachment on a D200? Sealed housing, self loading, you could even do wet-gate if you were careful......anyone here know where to get drawings for a Nikon lens mount?

Doing some sort of lens attachment still doesn't change the shutter problem. Too much trouble and expense to have one of the main components fail after only 100 hours or so of transfer... although it would certainly look good and give an option of 4k+ transfers.

I'd like to think I AM a decent pro still photo lab. Labs cannot process 100 foot rolls except with special machinery, at least not without a lot of risk at having a lot of problems.

Wasn't implying you weren't, didn't even know you had a lab. I know my local lab BWC here in Dallas would have no problem with it.

On those 100' rolls of 35mm, wouldn't any decent pro still photo lab be able to process? Obviously ask them not to cut the negs...