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Viggo Söderberg

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Posts posted by Viggo Söderberg

  1. On 2/1/2021 at 5:40 PM, David Mullen ASC said:

    A deeply colored-lit shot would not have high exposures if you want to retain the saturation, so don't worry about the waveform not showing a high signal level -- in monochrome, you'd expect a red-lit face to be more like 18% grey at the brightest, probably a stop under that.

    If you want a face to be lit red, light it that way.  Try try and shoot 444 or raw if possible. Pull any diffusion filters, keep the light at a contrasty angle to improve sharpness.

     

    On 2/1/2021 at 6:13 PM, Satsuki Murashige said:

    Then I think you’ll be fine lighting as Miguel and David suggest. Definitely don’t shoot it with white light and grade it red! That’s just unnecessary.

    Have been busy with shooting but thank you for the responses! In the end I did shoot it in red and I tried keeping in mind not going by false color. It wasn't a very significant scene but I really liked the results so thank you for input!

  2. On 2/3/2021 at 5:44 PM, Gregory Irwin said:

    Hi all,

    Sorry for the long delay in my response. Basically, for the bathroom scene in JOKER, we had the Alexa 65 camera set at 3200 Kelvin and  most likely 1600 ISO to achieve an exposure of T1.4. As for the lighting, all fixtures were tied to a dimmer board where the dimmer board operator could dial in the fluorescent green combined with the orange of the sodium vapor lights. Everything was very controlled. I hope this helps. 
     

    G

    Thank you very much for sharing! Needless to say we didn't have the resources to do anything like that. The scene from Joker was a big inspiration for a scene in our student shortfilm and we shot the scene yesterday!

    In the end we gelled our 4000k white flourescents with two layers of half plus green and one layer of full CTB. The other lights in the shot at 2100k. Camera set at 4000K. I was really happy with the results, thank you very much for the inspiration! 

    • Upvote 1
  3. 4 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

    What camera and codec will you be shooting? Digital or film? If digital, raw or 4:4:4 codec would be ideal. 4:2:2 or less could lead to artifacting.

    Lighting-wise, how are you achieving the red color? Gels or RGB LEDs?

    If you’re getting soft-looking images, one thing you can try is to dial in a less pure red color. In gel terms, instead of using Primary Red, try Fire Red which has a bit of yellow in it. This will help expose the green channel or green-sensitive film layer and help with sharpness. Then you can shift the color in post back to pure red if that’s the look you want.

    I've geled the practical lamp in the shot and then boosting with a Skypanel out of frame.

    I'll be shooting on the Alexa Mini, ProRes 444, C-Log.

    It's the grading part I find most daunting. I'm not that experienced with grading so I don't know what I would need to so to shift the image to red in post.

  4. 5 hours ago, Stephen Sanchez said:

    The LUT route may be a good option. This is the time to test that theory. Set that fixture up in your house and do a pass with red light and then white light and try to grade it to match. Being that it's a monotone image, it may be easy to complete. And compare the two for quality.

    My suspicion is that due to the large amounts of black in the scene (which I love btw) and already low levels, it will get quite nosy if relying on one channel for image reproduction. Plus your shooting tungsten which boosts the vacant blue channel more anyway.

    I'm for completing a look in-camera, but there may be limiting factors you haven't seen. Be-it the camera or codec, etc. Say you throw more red at it and it ends up oversaturating, I don't know. A test will help identify that.

    Would it be beneficial to shoot at daylight perhaps?

  5. 8 hours ago, Tomasz Brodecki said:

    Yes, there's always that third option, but it's not exactly the best one for the planet 😉 
    Just to be clear — we're going to need more light for any scene intended for single-color result compared to an equivalent full-color one anyway (if we're going for a believable look of a single-color light source, because of the values that we will be substracting), but by using white we're left with more choices.
     

    There's a time and place for everything, and unless you have the colorist on set and/or performing final grading on the entire footage as you shoot, you will be making the ultimate color decisions in post production anyway, so the time on set is probably better spent focusing on the task at hand.
     

    The choice is up to you (or your DIT or your colorist, whoever prepares your LUT) as to how much you want it to use the blue and green values to be turned into reds and how much to be filtered out, or any specific point in between.

     

    But if I'm turning the green and blue values into red, will the information from the blue and green channels be retained? Will it not essentially be the same as just shooting red? I guess what I'm confused about is if I'm shifting it to red in grade then I'm taking out the green and blue values, so what would be the point in shooting it without the red color? Or am I misunderstanding how the camera shoots the image?

  6. 1 minute ago, Stephen Sanchez said:

    @Tomasz Brodecki, what if he just uses a 4x brighter light?

    I figure that was what I was doing already. The false color image from the viewfinder doesn't know that I'm shooting only in red, it just measures proper exposure. So if I was lighting with normal strength from the lights the false color would be showing a lack of exposure because I'm starving it from the blue and green channels. But because I've used false color for my exposure I've boosted the strength in the lights in order for the red channel to compensate for the lack of green and blue in the image, meaning the red has proper exposure.

  7. 9 minutes ago, Tomasz Brodecki said:

    Because of the Bayer filter array in front of your sensor, if you shoot using only blue or only red light, the effective sensitivity of the sensor is reduced by 75%, so in order to compensate for that difference, you'd have to bump your gain, along with the accompanying noise, by two stops (for green, that's 50% or one stop).

    In other words, if you're going for a monochromatic result and you're shooting digitally, use the most of the spectrum you can, shoot with a red LUT if you can, and save the final color decisions for grading.

    I don't like leaving decisions for later. I want red in the scene. Perhaps I could film it without the red gels, but what would a red LUT be doing exactly? How would I film it and how would I alter it in post to retain the color information of the blue and green channels while only promoting the red channel?

  8. Next week I'll be filming a short film and one of the scenes will be taking place in a corridor at a night club. We've been working with the idea of having one light at the end of the corridor makes all these silhouettes and then there's a small encounter happening in the middle of the corridor. (Drunk girl falls over, guy picks her up. Her friends come over and help her away.)

    I know red is a color that can look pretty blurry sometimes, so I was considering adding another light. Although, any light I tried to add didn't feel justified or ruined the look of the silhouettes which I quite liked. I also like to keep it quite dark, however in false color the skin doesn't even go green. Maybe I'm overthinking things but I was wondering if that was going to be too low.

    Anyways, I'm just posting hoping to get some general feedback!

    https://imgur.com/a/yzphd2G

  9. 4 minutes ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

    What ISO and T-stop will you be shooting at? 

    Usually, I’ve found you don’t need much output from tube lights if you’re placing them so close to the subject. Also, if you want the color to be saturated, then you don’t want them too bright or they’ll look more desaturated. 

    If the bathroom tiles are shiny, that will help amplify the light output as well.

    Think I'll be shooting at 800 ISO at 2.8. Alexa Mini with Zeiss CP.2.

  10. I'm going to be lighting a bathroom scene with LED tubes over the bathroom mirrors. I will be buying these practicals but I don't know how to make sure I'll be getting enough light for them. The coolest tubes I could find was 4000K. I want them to give off a cyan look so I will be white balancing at around 4000K, then I will be gelling these practicals with a 1/2 CTB and a Half Plus Green. (I'll also be using some orange practicals so that's why I'm not white balancing at 3200K) Now seeing as I'm gelling these tubes with two layers I'm unsure I'll be getting a lot of light. 1/2 CTB has a transmission of 52% I think, and Half Plus Green has a transmission of 82%. I want the bathroom to be pretty dark but these fixtures will be the keylight. Not sure what stop I'll be using but possible I'll be around 2.8 so that I'm getting enough light. I don't know enough about lumens to know how to calculate how strong I need these lights to be (keeping the loss of light from the gels in mind). Could I have a hand working that out maybe?

  11. We've built the lamp and it works but the focus tube that goes through the umbrella moves freely. Meaning we couldn't find a way to lock it in place in the slot which obviously is a problem because when you tilt the lamp the whole tube and light house slides down. Does anyone know how to lock it in place, are we missing something obvious?

     

    https://imgur.com/a/kk8c7c0

  12. 1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

    There are super low-cost ways to do this. Get any white-ish light, a polystyrene board from a DIY store, and while you're there a tester-sized pot of blue-greenish paint. Paint the board, bounce the light off it. Total cost: one cheeseburger.

    P

    Yeah I figure I could do it that way, but at the same time I want to learn how to use the tools of the trade. We're handed a budget (this is a film school project) so in kind of don't want to do DIY solutions if I can avoid it. Those solutions I can save for private projects! Thanks for the suggestion though.

    Meanwhile, just a curiosity. Does color shift if it's bounced off a white surface? Or will a white surface, being neutral, not affect the color of the light?

  13. 20 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

    Sure you could do that but since you’d want the bathroom light to be cyan like this (blue + green) it might be easier to set the camera to 4300K or so, then use Daylight tubes w/ Plus Green gel for cyan, use warming gels on the tungsten. Or set the camera to 3200K, use Cool White fluorescents, and gel the background lights orange. It’s just that if you start at a 5600K base then the bathroom light has to start at 5600K before you add both blue (CTB) and Plus Green gel (or Steel Blue / Cyan / many other gels.) Which is possible. Of course today there are RGB LED tubes that can create any color you want.

    Ahh that sounds reasonable. Do you know what strength I'd need for the plus green gel? We don't really have the budget to buy multiple rolls and we don't live near any place that sell them over the counter so there's no way for me to actually see it in person.

  14. 3 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

    The picture attachments don't show up but if the camera color temp setting is higher than 3600K, then the light will appear warmer and if it has green in it, then the warmth (orange) will be shifted to the yellow-green.  So if you don't need to shoot at 3200K because you have other lights that need to appear balanced for that, then shoot at a higher color temp setting (4500K, 5600K, etc.) and add green gel to the light.

    How much green is a matter of taste but I'd start with a 1/2 Plus Green probably. Or get 1/4 Plus Green -- you can always keep adding more layers.

    https://imgur.com/a/XWC16im

     

    Here are the pictures. Yeah, I'll try ordering 1/4 gels then.

  15. 32 minutes ago, David Mullen ASC said:

    I don’t understand the last two sentences of your second paragraph...

    Apologies, wrote it in a rush.

     

    Basically I'm uncertain which gel I should buy to accomplish the look. The lamps in the garage have a temperature of 3600K. I figure that I'll need to white balance for a colder temperature so that the 3600K lamps in the garage appear warmer but I don't know which gel to buy to achieve that yellow/green tint from the lighting.

  16. I'm filming a scene in a garage and I want the lighting to have this kind of green/yellow quality.

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    The lamps in the garage have a temperature of 3600k. I figure I need to make the lamps warm and then give them a green tint. So I'll try white balancing the camera at something like 4500k-5000k. Then I'll put a green filter in front of the camera. I was wondering if I should just for the 3600k filter or if there be some consideration to buying some other gel? I have this gel test sheet.

    GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AAMkAGMyMzJmZmNjLWI1YjctNGJmOS04ZDk0LTE2NGY3YTJiY2U3MABGAAAAAADiUa8ZNArmRopzBkX1YB6hBwAXNG0oKL2NR43uhYdAPCWEAAAAAAEMAAAXNG0oKL2NR43uhYdAPCWEAAHMmzKiAAABEgAQAH1nskeoZ0tAjxsXZxokOxg%3D&thumbnailType=2&owa=outlook.office.com&scriptVer=20201012008.12&X-OWA-CANARY=CvBRZXwgjkWmeTnXBKiNALAu5W6TdtgYmGoL9AWdNOVW_6bYrIdmXq-Kpp8b5XgGYvAcGbC9NEE.&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IjU2MzU4ODUyMzRCOTI1MkRERTAwNTc2NkQ5RDlGMjc2NTY1RjYzRTIiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJ4NXQiOiJWaldJVWpTNUpTM2VBRmRtMmRueWRsWmZZLUkifQ.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.euKdUjMhd2PmtLd9Mimsp1dMOv-a-7A-8HE_-TsfqSZG2LsJAPpcSAEPOHha4IR5kx4Rcu31qDdIAVR5i1VJWFx_lGr_GmscKLcLw4xeID4C9DUis0gTkhvdk91Q7_6utCRUPlruThBNjWXyPvFkcLqiR_cTguBHcKtbkFsqAWh-la0dbQQfBtiBkPQqOK9_ZN04GfsA7Q4ubMOGB_EVr_QfgK4TY_xWIhz1WAlRYCkZEobd7vw-WT1w3r7O4pL2Dk73K0xDSqXZmQEXutEBm-S7z9UXdFwHrP7Xs3RSW8Ju-TLEtgRqquSaaX7qvww6F8Y1mOrCK8O5JHOn3JLIcQ&animation=true

  17. I'm writing an essay in school about white balancing in digital cameras and white balancing with color filters. We want to establish why digital cameras have a native white balance and why a camera with a native WB of 5600k has more noise in the image when balanced for 3200k.

    I figured that we're talking about spectral sensitivity and that in general CMOS sensors are less sensitive to blue light. So when filming in daylight situations the sensor doesn't have to compensate the gain for the blue channel and thus not getting as much noise. Is that correct? Does anyone have a good source through which I can back these claims up, or if I'm wrong, what does control the native white balance?

  18. 13 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

    Sure, you can gel LED's cyan or yellow.

    Cool White fluorescents are around 4700K with a green tint, so they only look cyan (blue-green) when the camera is set to 3200K, at 5600K setting, they look slightly yellow-green.  Sometimes I'll use a daylight LED and add 1/2 Green to them for a Cool White look when the camera is near 3200K.

    In the case of a sodium vapor look, I'd start with a tungsten LED plus gel.

    Another Fluorescent question - 16mm - Cinematography.com

    And that would create this kind of quality to the light? If I have som Kino Flos with 5500K tubes, could I combine gels to create that look as well?

    And if I were to buy practicals what would I need to think about? Because I'd prefer to have some in the frame. I live in Sweden so light frequencies can vary between Europe and the US from what I know. We usually film things in 25fps here with 180 shutter angle (what I've heard is that with European frequencies we need to use 172,8 shutter when we use 24fps). There's so many light tubes to choose from and many of them are LEDs now adays. I don't know what features I should be looking after to get the green- and cyan-tinted tubes.

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