Dimitrios Koukas

Dimitrios,

The project doesn't have to be HD, does it? You could also go the dvcpro50 route with the SDX-900... you'd be originating in a better color space than the XL2 and XLH1 (in HDV mode) and you'd have more lens options.

If you don't plan on a film out, it may not be a bad idea...

This movie goes to the theaters first, so actually at first I ve said let's go 35mm, then they said why not with the new HDV cameras?

What can u say....

Just said make it S16 at least?

Anyway after the second meeting, I believe I am convinsing them for S16, thanks to Stephen that reminded me the ''dynamic range'', and just because is a road movie, we want the most a media can take in terms of latitude.

I will make some tests within the week same shot with an HDV camera, and a S16 one, one will go for the digital process to 35mm and the other for the blow-up to 35mm too.

There is no way I can't convinse them about it, after the results.

Dimitrios Koukas

so im shooting a low budget video for the band "fishbone" this coming weekend and we barely have the budget for 35mm but we're going for it (thanks Hollywood Camera!). we got an insane deal on stock from Dr. Rawstock on some 5289 - the only vision stock i've never shot on. so i know its fast and production is a little worried about the grainy-ness factor. now they are fine with a little grain, and yeah it is 35mm so i'm not super worried, but basically since its been discontinued (hence the great rate) i don't know anyone who has shot it and NOT like pushed the heck out of it to get a more grainy look.

 

so i'm thinking of rating it at 640 asa because i want a little more density and i want some really rich blacks (will pull it down in telecine). what i'm looking for is advice on this stock and getting the most out of it in terms of using it normally. we're shooting everything on a stage and have a lot of control, so anyone who has any thoughts on this stock - please help a guy out!

Joseph,

800ASA for television is a good choise,

And also rate it at 640 like you said is a good option, since it will not go for theatrical release, it's a stock that has a nice latitude and very flexible it terms of transfer, so a lot can be done there.

Yes it has more grain than other stocks but not something unacceptable.

Going on 35mm also gives you a better look.

Just light the blacks a bit more and then ''crash'' them in the telecine.

But this can be achieved only by overexposing like u said.

It would be a pain if you have exterior daylight shots , u will need some ND to compensate I guess?

Dimitrios Koukas

My enquiry regards filming indoor locations with white walls, whilst maintaining good colour contrast.

 

I have a location that has white walls (close enough to white for the purpose of film), with wood floors and pillars. Some of the walls that will constitute the background for a few shots have paintings hanging on them. The principle actress is also pale skinned, framed ultra-close-up to medium shot. I want to light the scene high key to accentuate warm colourings (orange and woods) and it will be shot with soft focus.

 

What is the best film stock to accentuate contrast for predominantly white backgrounds? Is it possible to use coloured backlighting (e.g. red or orange) to reduce the "whiteness" of the backgrounds? Are there any rules for high-key lighting arrangements to be used to avoid over-illuminating a white background? What exposure levels and shutter speeds enhance contrast in these circumstances? Will a polaroid filter help reduce the light dispersion reflected off the white surface? Is soft focus going to diminish the contrast?

Oscar,

one thing that it will help is to ''flag out'' any unwanted light falling on the walls, and use some bright sunlight effect on the walls in places to ''brake'' this monotony,

Are u going to use the existing daylight or u can control this by adding your lights and simulate it?

For night interiors I believe it is more controlable, just avoid big diffusion sources or bounched ones.

Or at least use them across the wall not pointing at it.

As for the film stock whatever u will use ,overexpose by 1/2 to 1 stop.

And then compensate for it in the colour timing.

Try not to lit the walls as possible (only some areas) and use more directional light to your actress.

This will give to the walls a ''greyish'' look in parts and will add some atmosphere,

unless u want them lit like white paper all even, wich always by my oppinion it's not very interesting and flat out the image.

Dimitrios Koukas

Being "young" in this industry, I tend to avoid new technology that could give me a bad reputation. I very much go out of my way to think of every possible variable to protect my future employment opportunities. I just wouldn't feel comfortable relying on the camera alone because if something happens to that camera, I highly doubt the post facility will want to replace it with another. Or, perhaps there would be a need to hire multiple loggers. That isn't always practical when playback unit cost $9K. The logistics of that camera bother me, but I have heard the quality is very nice, though lacking in highlight detail, as always. Yes, I believe the camera does have Firewire output. More likely, an editor would prefer the HD-SDI route, tho.

 

Hope this helps.

Brian "wants to be a cinematographer but just memorizes stuff instead" Wells

I would prefer the HD -SDI route too,

thanks for mentioned it.

I have no worries about any camera to be honest, by my experience I will do the job by any media available, it's just that I don't want to rush into a project without dispalying the plus and minus of a media to the production office.

And all this in the pre-production meetings, and not after.

Dimitrios Koukas

The Cartoni Focus was my choice for the money. It is a fluid head with continuously variable drag controls and a 2 - 22 lb. counterbalance range on a 100mm bowl. Because of its' versatility and smooth feel, I believe it will last me throughout my career. The 100mm interface is nice because I could easily add a small jib or high hat because those accessories are designed to fit a 100mm bowl.

 

That said, the heads feels a little plasticy. The price is roughly the same as the Bogen and Vinten models suggested. However, I liked the feature set offered by Cartoni, which is why I bought it.

 

Here is a pan I made using my Cartoni Focus:

Brian,

There is something wrong with your file I can't open it.

It says that a bad atom was found in the movie.

Dimitrios Koukas

The problem is not with my Nizo S80..it reads the cart fine...it my Eumig 65XLS...it only reads ASA 40 ,160 ? D ASA 25,100..

I don't know the camera,

Does it have an always auto f/stop on (wich I don't think so) in relation to the camera's photometer?

If not, just use a photometer and rate your stock at 160ASA, a little overexposure never hurt anyone.

So put the 200 ASA in and use the photometer readings to adjust your f/stop manualy I guess?

Dimitrios Koukas

What's not nice ? :D

Just joking here,

I didn't got the white and black reference cards either, I would suggest a colour patch or a grey card instead.

Dimitrios Koukas

I recently purchased an old Konvas. It is the older model with the 200' mags. I have Kodak core adapters for the mags. My question is this: in other camera mags, Arri, etc., how "tight" do the film stock cores slip onto the "core holders"? The reason I ask is that I am thinking that I might permanently attach the core adapters so I don't have to worry about them. Do you think this is a valid idea?

 

Thanks,

 

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Are u talking for the plastic cores that come with film?

Usually u unload the film with them on the stock and send them for proccesing (for example 200 magazines for Arri IIC).

200 ft magazine have a little space to work in the changing bag so I believe that u will have to take the exposed film out of the magazine (always in the bag) and then remove the plastic core if you like.

If you are talking for a clip core adapter then it should be really solid there and don't move alone, just move with the camera's movement.

Most of the cameras that use this system have a clip core that has a notch used to avoiding moving on it's free axis.

I hope this make sense my English are sometimes average.

Dimitrios Koukas

Hold the phone. It would be pretty risky to bet an entire movie on the XL-H1 because there is no established post strategy for that camera. There are currently no decks that will play the tapes recorded on the XL-H1. It doesn't look like there will be any, either. The tapes are not compatible with the JVC decks (HDV1-only) or the Sony decks (HDV2-only). Canon has gone out and created a completely incompatible format and has no plans to build a deck for it. What this means is the post facility must have the actual camera to playback the tapes! Try explaining that to the producers!

Thank you very much Brian,

I believe that u can use firewire and the camera as a player ?

(that doesn't mean that I will choose this camera).

Dimitrios Koukas

i don't know how the tri-x carts are notched but the notch for 160t actually means 100d if there's no filter notch. that's what the spec says and that's how for example canon cameras do it, but i hear some manufacturers handle it differently.

that would be the simple solution of course, but he's using a camera that sets the asa automatically.

 

/matt

Ok he can use a photometer then.

Dimitrios Koukas

Thats where you hire someone to figure out what all that means and have it ready for you at the end of the day. Similar to how you have to send the film to the lab to have them process it, you need to send your files to a file dude to process them...

File... dude?

:D

Dimitrios Koukas

A "film recorder" is the device used to transfer digital files to film; the most common types are LASER RECORDERS (like the Arrilaser) and CRT RECORDERS (like the Celco). There was also something called an EBR (ELECTRON BEAM RECORDER) but few were made and are hardly used now.

 

Laser recorders usually record to intermediate stock, producing either an IN or IP. CRT recorders use camera negative stock.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_recorder

 

For converting film images into digital ones, a "film scanner" or "telecine" is used. Scanners tend to be slower, pin-registered, and do one frame at a time. Telecines tend to be faster and scan & transfer continuously, and often record the image in a video format of some sort, not as RGB data. You can think of a telecine as a form of scanner, especially a 'datacine' like the Spirit, although usually there is a distinction made at post houses between a data scan and something transferred on a telecine.

 

Mike Most, Dominic Case, Phil Rhodes, etc. can explain this more accurately than I can...

:)

David...

Thanks for the telecine explanation, I believe I ve used one first time back in 1992.

I have made transfers in my life, film to_digital_or_whatever_format way, it's just I haven't ever did the opposite,(video to film) only experimenting thru a crt monitor.

I guess my question was very general, so I am sorry for this.

Thank you , and what about the sound? This comes after I guess?

Dimitrios Koukas

Thanks so much for your input. We found a couple places that still offer 7279, however your input has confirmed our suspicion that 7218 is the best way to go.

 

We will be having the film processed at Color Lab in Rockville, MD.

 

David and Joseph, you advise against rating 7218 at 1000 ASA. Why is that? After looking at the specs, it seems that 7218 would be able to push beyond a full stop and still have some play room. However, I have had no experience pushing this stock, and I am curious as to its effects.

 

Thanks again for your comments.

 

Mitch Lusas

Virginia Beach, VA

I will suggest you to do a test before you go, and push it one but rate it 800.

Dimitrios Koukas

Isn't the XL H1 Canons version of HDV? I don't think it's even set to come out till years end or maybe even later. If you can wait on the XL H1, I would suggest waiting on the Panasonic HVX200, native 16:9, 3 CCD's, Records DVCPRO-HD, and most of all, No MiniDV compression, unlike the H1, which still records to MiniDV tape. Just my opinion.

Thanks Landon,

I ve checked the camera u suggested and I ll go with it, if I don't manage to change for s16.

Dimitrios Koukas

Mind that since HDV is Mpeg 2 Gop 6, you won't be able to do fades, as far as I know, but only cut editing...

 

What about real HD for such a project, am I over budget ? Mind that XL1 whatever is hand held, but not nice to work on the shoulder... Don't know the panasonic, but, for what's about using primes lenses, I defenetly think a zoom is much more usefull on such a project...

 

If you go for film, wich may be not easy to get them conviced for, mind that you then need an assistant to load etc.

 

Is it fictionous/drama or a documentary ?

 

If it's a fiction film, I think you'll get them easier to go for film...

:) There is one camera operator and assistant in the crew anyway.

No problem changing magazines and loading, for me it takes the same time to reload a tape and write 1:30'm colour bars by EBU standards.

Real HD will take half of the budget! Editing suite costs a lot.

Dimitrios Koukas

So to how it works, shoot as normal (S16,35,S35), scan into computer, carry out post production and output to film!

 

Stephen

Stephen thank you very much,

I was just wondering ''how it works'' meanning the printing method.

Is it a video monitor that is scanned? or a projected image on lcd or DLP , does the procedure comes in a continuous light or by flashes on the negative?

Dimitrios Koukas

Right. If I remember, the reason all those exteriors looked "good" is that the skies were composites. There is no way you could achieve the quality of 28 Days Later on a 200,000 euro budget. The post production alone was something like $1.5 million.

 

That said, I have been able to get some great images from the XL2. I found it to be sharper than the DVX100 by far. The out-of-box color settings look horrible and the master RGB settings have to be tweaked.

 

For your project, definitely push for film. You'll be pulling your hair out trying to control the limited dynamic range of the XL.

Matt,

My mistake,I have write down XL2 while the camera is the new XL H1 (suppose to be HD).

Anyway i am pushing for film.

Still couple of meettings and I think that I am about to convince them.

Dimitrios Koukas

Hello,

I need some explanations about 2k or 4k, systems. The terminology 4k is been used to clarify the fact that an image 4k is used (1024kx4=4096), but what this means for the result?

How this is achieved? Frame by frame or real time?

Dimitrios Koukas

I've been making movies for awhile now, but I've only ever shot on video(miniDV,) and it's really leaving something to be desired. I recently bought a Krasnogorsk-3(haven't received it yet) to start experimenting with film. It was cheap and it will allow me to get some experience with film without paying too much.

 

I wanted to know what film stocks people would suggest for me to experiment on?

 

Any other newb suggestions would be great if you want to drop a few my way. I love these forums, I've spent days reading topics gathering information that I may never need, but it's awesome to be able to learn it all.

 

If this post should have been in the 'film stocks' forum please excuse me, but I figured I'd put it in here to steer it away from serious stock questions.

 

Thanks a ton in advance.

Evan,

One good stock to try experimenting with is kodak's 7205 250 Asa Daylight film,

U can just go out on the streets and start shooting, no correction filters needed, just some sunlight or daylight.

Dimitrios Koukas

Hey all,

I am shooting two short dream sequences soon, and had some questions about stock choice. We are shooting normal 16mm, one scene is outdoor early monring, and the other is a medium size college lecture hall. The director wants a very silky look, , a little blown out, kind of milky. I want to see the shots share a mixture of the silky, creamy look, but i also want to see very deep saturated colors in the rest of the image. I was playing with the idea of using reversal, kodachrome 40, but i have heard that reversal stock doesn't come across as well during telecine. any thoughts on that? also, i am thinking about using some kind of softening filter, either a real filter, or some kind of screen material, any tips for that? (sorry i know this is a stock post) and then along with that, would the film stock matter as far as picking up that softened look? any suggestions there? Thanks for your help!

Steve

First of all,

Try to ask the director what needs excactly, or how he is imagine this,

it's difficult sometimes to have saturated colours with diffusion, not that it's impossible.

I would suggest go with 1/2 pro-mist and overexpose about 2/3 of a stop.

And then do some colour correction to get the rich colours.

You can use the 7245D film stock for the daylight scene, unless it's really ''early morning'' like magic hour?

I don't know if u are shooting a person, one really rare thing that was used in the old days form still photographers is the use of petroleum gel on a clear filter, u can just add gel only where your subject is, whille leaving the rest of the frame untouched.

This is really nice as effect if you don't go too far with the amount of gel, but it's really tricky when changing lenses, u will need different thikness on the gel layer.

DImitrios Koukas

For the re-entry scene, I wanted to have a soft orange light, flickering, coming through the porthole window but I knew that the helmet would just reflect an orange frame, so I decided to light the face only with orange lights bounced off of steam being blown past the window, which was a bit scary in terms of getting enough exposure. As the craft re-entered the atmosphere, I had the cabin lights die so that the face was only lit by this orange gas passing over the window port. Had to open all the way to an f/2.0.

David,

If I got it correct, u used smoke as a reflecting source?

What a brilliant idea this is!

Despite the low light, I believe it will give you the ''heat'' effect, when the craft is entering the atmossphere!

Like u wanted to be.

I definately want to see this!

Dimitrios Koukas

Is there any kind of portable DOF calculating device?

 

That link is nice, but how bout portable. I do have a ASC manual, but Im just asking.

 

IS that whay SpikeyAnnie is talking about? The PCam and PCine software with palm pilot? If so, what exactly is PCam and PCine?

 

Thank you.

There are many palm-pc's that have cinematography softwares, most of my assistants using them.

Dimitrios Koukas

I'm going to assist a D.O.P from next week which would be more of a training for me but still i want to be well prepared so that i could be an asset for him rather than being a burden, so please can someone guide me in detail about the various responsibilities of an asisstant and what all will the DP would expect from me.......thanks a lot

Another book from focal press that helped me a lot, is Sylvia's Carlson, ''professional cameraman's handbook''

DImitrios Koukas

I might have some wrong information then. What do people usually use 18% grey cards for?

You don't have wrong information at all, it's that the grey cards were used more for still photography,

while in cinema the photodome incident meters seems to have established.

You see it's much more easier to walk around the actor's path with the photo meter on hand than having someone hold u the grey cards that u will measure with the spot meter from cameras point of view.

This doesn't mean that u can't use the gray card for any reason, it's just more practical this way i guess.

A spot meter is good when u have your subject on a distance, or different areas that reflect different amount of light to your film's frame, that you want to check them for exposure reasons.

For example if you have a window somewhere on your frame and you want to see if the compensation lighting you are using for it is enough or you need some more, or gel the window with ND filters.

18% of a gray card simulates white skin.

The same does the 18% photodome on an incident light meter.

DImitrios Koukas

I am using Premiere pro and aftereffects and cannot seem to achieve the look of the old silent films. I am copying this style and need the aged look. Has anyone done this before or know how?

Do u need hairs and scratches, among with strobe/ 16 fps movement?

Dimitrios Koukas

As I ve seen from the day that the site changed skins and fonts (among other things), there is an error screen that posts out after you post anything, so as a result people keep posting their messages on and on, so that's why I ve seen kore than 3-4 topics with the same author and title.

At the time I am just ignoring the error msg and don't panic, when I check the last forums my name and subject is in.

Dimitrios Koukas