Mark Lyon IMPOSTOR

I have heard that some commercial movies are shot in super-16 so as to get film copies 1.66 or 1.85. Does anyone know anything about that? Is 16 mm ever used for shooting movie theater films?

Here are a few that use Super16 to check out (in no particular order--just films that come to mind):

The Wrestler (in theaters now in the US)

Vera Drake

Leaving Las Vegas

Irreversible

The Queen (the scenes focusing on Tony Blair)

Bloody Sunday

Babel (scenes in Morocco)

Pi

The Station Agent

City of God

The Constant Gardener

Motorcycle Diaries

I'd say that sounds a solid workflow.

Who knows maybe well get lucky with a codec pack to import directly into an NLE (could see Premier Pro integrating that without much problem) Or perhaps it'll be proxy files for an offline and the quick turn 'round work. Who knows. Good luck! Any help I can be, don't hesitate to ask. I've got FCP 6.0.4 and AVID on my macbook if you ever come cross some footage to play 'round with.

Yeah, solid, but also slow and manual. It'll be interesting if Premier supports DNG directly. Thank you for the offer of help too. Hopefully we'll get some DNG footage to work with soon, and we can evaluate different workflow strategies.

I've seen your posts on the forum over there. Do you think their waiting list extends to mid-February yet?

 

I have a few questions that have yet to be answered by them.

Great question! I really have no idea about how long the list is, or where my camera is in it. I honestly wish for a bit better transparency on that issue.

It would be great if they can get production underway in time to deliver cameras before the end of the year, but I think it's even more important for them to get the kinks worked out before they ship cameras. My experience with the Red One made me realize the critical importance of a solid, reliable camera system.

Mark,

I for one look forward to hearing what you have to say on the camera. Especially the post workflow.

Me too ;-)

Right now I'm imagining something like this for workflow (until better DNG tools arrive):

Option 1:

-) Shoot RAW

-) Transfer DNG sequences and audio files to Macbook Pro.

-) Load DNG sequences and audio into After Effects, doing an introductory grade in Camera Raw plugin+ Color Finesse if necessary

-) Render out ProRes(HQ) QuickTime files with synced audio if there is any

-) Edit in Final Cut Pro

-) If necessary, go back to the raw DNGs to regrade, then go to finish.

If I needed the help of a real colorist, I suppose I would render a DPX sequence to give them.

Option 2 would involve getting Cineform, and transcoding the DNG sequences to CineForm either during or after the process of transferring them to my mac.

All of this is conjecture at this point--I'm looking forward to getting my camera so I can start testing this. Or, hopefully the Swedes will post a few DNG sequences on their site so we can get it figured out. But I get the sense they're pretty busy at this point.

I'm getting one. Seems like the perfect design for a personal/director camera, and I'm delighted to move away from the clinical look of the EX1 for low/no-budget projects. With the dII, I can use my s16 optics, and I like the RAW workflow. The company definitely has a low-key approach to marketing, which I also appreciate, but it may contribute to the (lack of) online discussion.

I'm not sure when mine is going to show up, but when it does I'm sure I'll have more to contribute.

There goes the aaton neighborhood!

I hear you! ;-) I hope all's going well.

Hi,

 

When did the camera last have a full overhaul?

 

Stephen

I'm not sure if it counts as a full overhaul, but we had it checked out by Abel CineTech in LA on November 26, 2004. They did this:

Checkout of LTR done. Light lubrication of camera done including, spot lube of motor,

filling of movement oil reservoirs and cam lubrication. Shutter and viewing system of

camera cleaned (2hrs).

Before that, it would've been before we purchased the camera (also from Abel) in 2000. We don't use the camera very much, and it runs perfectly, so we haven't done a major overhaul since we bought it.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Aaton LTR 54 camera

DP's personal camera in excellent condition. Fully functional, produces stable, clean imagery. Camera is located in San Francisco, CA. Asking $10K.

Orientable finder with Super16 fiberoptic screen

Wooden handgrip

Aaton lens mount

Serial number: C794

Super/regular 16mm switchable, delivered in Super16 format.

-) Two 400' magazines (Super 16 compatible). Serial numbers M1867 and M1754

-) Lightweight 15mm rods for follow focus/mattebox/other accessories

-) Aaton charger and two recently recelled batteries (12V and 16V)

-) eShot intervalometer and cables for timelapse shooting

-) Arri bayonet to Aaton lens adaptor

-) Nikon F to Aaton lens adaptor

-) Heavy-duty custom flight case

We have an Optex 5.5 in like new condition. Arri Bayo mount (we use it with a PL adaptor). Email me at mark at mightymaxfilms dot com for more info.

Hi--

We've been asked to bid on an industrial project that needs to shoot in Johannesburg. Does anyone have an idea about relative crew costs (compared with LA) for a documentary-style production?

Thanks!

We use the A-minima all the time for sync sound work. I guess ours is a quiet one! I'd say it's about the same as an LTR, better than many SR2s. Not as quiet certainly as an Xtera. A barney is helpful.

For unobtrusive shooting, it's a great choice.

I've had my last few Super16 projects telecined at 1080 24P to a DDR directly from the Spirit, then saved to ProRes HQ QuickTime files on a firewire drive for the edit. This is the best workflow that I've found yet. The quality is a notch up from DVCPro HD files (and you don't have the anamorphic pixel issue). It works out to about 1GB per minute.

Best of luck with your project.

It sounds like you're using film for b-roll, which makes me think immediately of the a-minima. It's a terrific camera for that application (less great for interviews, because of the 200' loads). After doing a lot of documentary projects on S16 with two Aaton cameras (a-minima + LTR, XTR, or Xtera), I've noticed that a disproportionate amount of our best b-roll footage gets shot on the a-minima. I attribute it to there being something about the camera that makes you want to pick it up and use it, so you end of getting shots that would've been missed with the bigger camera. Also, the daylight loads are great for run-and-gun situations.

Best of luck with your project.

Ditto from here. I shot 1000' of respooled 7285 on a documentary last year with my a-minima. No problems with noise, but some of the flanges were loose--I'd never run into that with factory Kodak mags, so it took a little while to diagnose.

Good luck--

I did a job last year in which we used 7285 100D reversal spooled down by Media Distributors. Several rolls worked fine, but unfortunately they left the flanges loose on a couple of rolls, which caused us some grief.

If you're finishing in HD at 24fps, you can just put the 48fps-originated shot into the timeline in your editing software and set it to playback at 24fps with no frame blending. It will accomplish this by simply playing every other frame.

If you're working in SD video at 30fps, it's a little trickier--you first would want to remove the 3:2 pulldown to get back to your original 24fps material, then do what I suggested above, then render the result back out to 30fps with pulldown added back in.

I hope this helps--

Mark

What about shooting at 48 fps and then taking every other frame in post? If finishing on video/DI, that might be worth a try if you're limited to the A-minima for the shoot.

And do you have a link to the chart you refer to?

 

Thanks,

-Tim

http://www.cinematographyelectronics.com/i...lickerfree.html

Hi Joe--

I'm also an A-Minima owner (I've had mine for 5 years, and many thousands of feet of film). I've have one film loading issue with the camera, and it had to do with respooled film--if the flexible flanges aren't nice and tight, then the camera could lose its ability to drive the mag. As I understand it, the mechanism really depends on a good connection between the rollers and the edges of the flanges. If the flanges were just hopelessly loose, I can see how it would take a long time to "load the camera," because you'd never get a good flange-to-roller fit, and you wouldn't have any idea why. Of course, in this scenario it seems like you might also see light leaks. And it also doesn't explain the issue starting and stopping. Was your film fresh from Kodak, or was it hand-spooled?

Normally, it's hard to imagine taking more than a minute to thread the camera. I just trained a new assistant, and she did it in a minute on her first try with the thing.

Now, whenever I load the camera, I give the flanges a little clockwise twist between the palms of my hands before loading.

It's a great little camera, but I can't seem to get reliable readings with the onboard meter. At least on mine, it's hyper-sensitive to angle--moving the camera slightly will produce radical changes in the recommended T stop. So I just use my hand-held meter.

If you can stand HDCAM (vs. SR), you can transfer to that, then rent a cheaper play-back deck to capture your footage for editing. Expect to pay more like $300/day for an HDCAM playback deck. This is the way I often work with Super16 footage. Quality is excellent. HDCAM SR would be nice if you plan on going back to 35mm film for projection of your finished product, but HDCAM itself may well be adequate for digital playback.

You'll want to do some tests, since this is quite subjective, and also dependent on the type of scenes you're shooting.

Also, what's your shooting ratio? I'd expect to shoot at least 1000 feet of film for an 8-minute short. Again, this depends on your plan for the film.

Best of luck with it.

hi

if i shhot on super 16mm. can we tranfar for normal tv? i menas full normal tv frame? not cinemascop ( 16x9) ?is it possible?

Yes. you can transfer to 4x3 full screen TV. You'll just be using the full height of the Super16 negative, but only a portion of the width (you have the option to reframe the image significantly left and right). Quality will be identical to Regular 16.

Alternatively, you can transfer to 4x3 but with a letterbox top and bottom, and get the whole Super16 negative, at lower enlargement/less grain.

Finally, you can do an anamorphic squeeze, and transfer the whole Super16 negative to a 4x3 TV with an anamorphic squeeze, so it will play full screen on a 16x9 TV.

Best of luck.

Mark, why haven't you used 1875 feet for Film length for 35mm 3-perforation?

Thanks for catching that! I'm sorry about the error (I used 75 feet/minute, when 3-perf is really more like 67.5 feet/minute). I hate seeing misinformation on the web, and here I am contributing to it.

My apologies.

Let's say you're comparing the format prices for a job (vs. personal work). With that in mind, I'm going to compare prices based on new stock (not recans or short ends) and I'm also going to factor in the lowest cost of a good-quality transfer (spirit to HD).

With those assumptions, here's what you're looking at to shoot about 1/2 hour of film:

35mm 4-perf:

2500' of film=28 minutes

$1500 for stock+$325 for process+$925 for transfer=$2,751, or about $99/minute

35mm 3-perf:

2083' of film=28 minutes

$1250 for stock+$275 for process+$925 for transfer=$2,451, or about $88/minute

Super 16:

1000' of film=28 minutes

$400 for stock+$145 for process+$925 for transfer=$1,471, or about $53/minute

Super 8:

560' of film=28 minutes

$363 for stock and processing+$925 for transfer=$1,289, or about $46/minute

Notes: it's of course possible to get cheaper rates on these things (I based telecine on $400/hour and a 4:1 ratio), but this comparison is pretty much a level playing field.

Also, I based my Super8 costs on a 12-pack of kodak negative film with processing included.

Best of luck to you--

Mark

That workflow does make a lot of sense, but I doubt you'll find a transfer house that will go direct to DVCPro-HD tape. More likely, at least in my experience, is HDCAM. So transfer to that, in 1080 23.98P resolution, then capture to DVCPro-HD format in Final Cut. Then you get smaller files that look great, and could even be your distribution format.