Scot McPhie

You're right George and it may well be that we just settle on making one for ourselves - we'll have to see and it will take a while before we even get to that point - but making movies is definitely more important to me than making cameras - but with the assistance I'm getting just trying to do something for myself now is a worthwhile proposition or exercise - we'll just have to see about the bigger picture! Scot

Good idea - I asked the moderator of the forum on camera repairs if he'd include a section on movie cameras and he said he wouldn't - so I've created my own at http://mangoagogo.proboards25.com/index.cgi Scot

Now you're following my model for handling this. 8) Yes the wisest way to go - and if you end up with something useable but unsellable for any reason then it was still worth it for our own use :-) Scot

This certainly gives me pause to think! What I'm going to do is get it to the prototype stage and then take it from there - I'll aim to shoot one of my own features on it and then see how it looks from the business point of view. Scot

There is this http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/ although I don't think they have motion picture camera forum there - perhaps they could start one -- I might be good to try and get them to start one too (rather than a new one ourselves) because people already at that site might be interested in Super 8 and 16 and contribute as well Scot

Yeah I agree - and thinking it over we've decided this is the best route to take. It's a tricky thing Super 8 - there are people out there like me and others who are interested in shooting features on Super 8 and obviously would like good cameras to shoot them on. I spent about $1500 on my ZMII and it's modifications and if a camera like I was proposing was available I probably would have gone for that - but with so many cameras available and modificiations available as well how many people would go for a new camera? So I agree a Super 16 one is a far better prospect to make so we're going to put our efforts in that direction. The market again would be the low end indie film makers for which Super 16 is a lot more appealing than Super 8 or regular 16 - the chief competition in this bracket is the Ikonoskop which is about $7000 Australian - so if we can beat that with better features it'll be a goer. The price would probably end up being around $5000 Australian at least. A good thing electronically though is Rob says a multispeed crystal control unit is relatively easy - as would all the electronics for that matter -- it's the mechanical side which will take some work. Anyway I'll keep you all informed. Scot

I, and a friend of mine who is an electronics engineer, have decided we're going to give it a go and try and make one - if we can come up with a reliable system we will sell them on a build-to-order basis. We're going to go for something fairly basic and then if that works we might try and do something which incorporates more modern technology/electronics. My friend, Rob Greenfield, is quite a talented electronics engineer and I have alot of faith when he says he can or can't do things. So anyway he's going to look after that side of it and I'm going to look after the optics/film side of it. The features we're interested in putting into it at the moment are: * Crystal synch motor at a few set speeds - 18, 24, 25 and 29.97 fps (any other useful/necessary ones?) * A proper gate mechanism so the film runs out of the cartridge through a loop and through a gate to improve stability * Fully manual - no auto focus or zoom or apperture - or ASA detection * Internal light metering * Internal rechargeable battery and DC power input * Sound dampening if the camera isn't quiet enough * Possibly a camcorder style grip - not a pistol grip * A proper through the lense view finder system (possibly an orientable one) * Nobs and controls not a menu system We don't have a time frame on this but have started on the R&D already I'll start a web page soon so you can follow the development of the project. Any comments/advice feel free to let us know. We have no idea of the end price it would probably be around $1000 Australian - and we will only be doing them if we can obtain/make all the parts on a build to order basis. Aesthetically it's probably just going to look like a black box with a lense sticking out of the front - it won't have a die cast body, but will certainly have a solid internal structure to it. We're still tossing around names for it. Scot

I believe the title of that film was "In His Image",which I've seen on ebay along with "Lost Tribes"."Image",I believe is a 1930's period film. Marty Yes that's me/mine! The film is called In My Image Check out the page for the film it was shot on K40 using a Beaulieau 4008ZMII crystal synched at 25fps. There's heaps on the web page, but I'm happy to answer any other questions. I'm even mad enough to consider doing my next feature on Super 8 too :D (seriously!) but reports of faulty cartridges are starting to worry me (we were plagued with heaps on In My Image - and of course you don't know they're faulty till after they've been developed!) I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Super 8 - but in fact just the opposite - I love it but if anyone wants to do serious work in it this problem has to be fixed once and for all. As for Super 8 vs 16mm there's quite a lengthy thread about it here Here's the poster for my film (can't resist) Scot

Thanks for all the replies and advice everyone - it seems it's not really a worthwhile option to pursue - I think with my current budget level at the moment I'm going to just have to frame for 16:9 and get it cropped. Scot

I've been reading about feature distribution and it seems pretty clear that the distributors really want film first, preferably 35mm then Super 16 - or at the very least 16:9. Since converting an R16 to Super 16 is troublesome has anyone used a 16:9 anamorphic lense on one - I've got the Angineaux 12-120 lense has anyone ever fitted one to that - or do you know if there is a suitable one available? I know ones are getting made now for HD cameras perhaps they could be used. Scot

The real attraction in something like this was to save money - but the time factor is quite a worry - I did a few calculations and this practically negates it's usefulness: 200 feet of 16mm is about 5.5 minutes (can't remember exactly but that will do for now) If shooting at 24 fps 5.5 mins x 60 secs = 330 seconds 330 x 24 = 7920 frames Now if it takes 5 seconds to take the picture, advance the film and get the picture off the camera onto the hard drive 7920 x 5 = 39600 seconds to scan 200ft of 16mm 39600 / 60 = 660 minutes 660 /60 = 11 hours Kind of daunting! Now if you were shooting a 90 minute feature film with a 4:1 ratio that's 360 minutes 360/5.5 = 65.454545 65.45 x 11 hours = 719 hours or 29.99 days of continuous use Rather than try and save money and make one of these - the effort's probably better put into raising money for a proper transfer! Scot (Correct me if any of my maths is wrong!)

Working on something else I?ve found it?s relatively easy to move files around with simple PERL scripts which made me think about Work Printers and DIY telecine methods. Imagine a set up like this - a high quality digital still camera is set up to take pics from a film - the still camera would be connected to a PC by a USB port - with it?s memory card appearing as a hard drive in the PC. A controller programme tells the camera to take a pic and to then advance the film transport mechanism - this goes on for a hundred times or so (however many till the memory card is full) and then the PERL script is called to move the files off the memory card and on to a physical hard drive in the PC and the whole process starts again until length of film is fully telecined. Scans could then be done at 2K or higher resolution - and once they?re all in the computer as a series of numbered stills they would be relatively easy to manipulate in Premiere or Photoshop or other applications. Making the camera take the photo might be the hard thing - you would need some kind of mechanical method I guess - a camera with a remote control function might be the easiest, if such a thing exists. Any thoughts on this whole process? I?d be quite interested in making one - and since I?d like to shoot alot on 16mm it would be worth my while to put a few thousand into it - it would definitely save in the long run. A quick search on google for digital cameras and remote control revealed some interesting links - including some with gui interfaces http://photopc.sourceforge.net/ http://www.yk.rim.or.jp/~mamo/Computer/DS-7/index-e.html http://www.math.ualberta.ca/imaging/ Actually the more I look at it - the better it gets! heres a few pics from the last site http://www.math.ualberta.ca/imaging/ plus the instructions From http://www.math.ualberta.ca/imaging/photopc.html The relevance for telecine work is quite obvious - although it appears this camera may only take jpeg's though Scot