Camera recs for portable, professional classical music events

[Larry Sanbourne]

Hi,

I'm an audio engineer and musician needing a portable, easy-to-setup video setup for pro-quality classical recordings, sometimes while performing. 2–4 musicians, fixed positions, occasional unmanned single-camera livestream later. Aimed at YouTube and social media.

Looking for recommendations for 3 cameras that are:

1. Portable for 2-month trips
2. Easy to setup - Since I'm also doing audio and might be performing too.
3. Remote start/stoppable without going to each camera
4. Low-light friendly for dim venues
5. Can do log footage
6. Records up to 2hrs
7. Bonus - DSLR-quality stills for social media (at least from one camera).
8. Wireless - we might put cameras up in mezzanines etc. and can't have enormous HDMI cable runs.

FYI for sound I'll run Schoeps mics into RME Babyface Pro + 12Mic -> MacBook Pro. I have MixPre-6 II but its preamps aren't as good. I'd record timecode as audio into Babyface....or just clap if people think timecode would be too complex to setup while I'm also performing and positioning 3 cameras.

Cameras I've considered:

Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera $1295 — no autofocus, no app
Sony FX30 + 18-50mm lens kit $2,350 — no ProRes
Osmo Pocket 3 ($500) — Log footage, looks much better than previous generations; PTZ is great for putting in strange spots high up. I assume the footage is still consumery.
Panasonic G85
HERO12 Black ($400) — prob still consumery
Sony a6400 + 16-50mm $1000
iPhone 15 — maybe a6400 ends up looking better for similar price and offering remote control via Sony app?

Thank you so much for your help!
Larry

[Jon O'Brien]

Hi Larry, I film classical music performances with a Canon C300 or Sony FS7. I've also used a Sony A7III as B cam. If I was looking for a set up like you describe, small and portable and not too pricey, but with the best look (you already have the audio well taken care of) I think I personally would be inclined to look for a DSLR style mirrorless or small 4K camcorder by Canon or Sony, but that's just my preference. Best wishes with what you end up getting.

[Larry Sanbourne]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your straightforward and helpful advice!!

I'm trying to work up the courage to buy 3 Sony FX30s (or 2 FX30s and 1 A7SIII). Do I need something with fans to handle 4K recording for 2 hours? Is there anything cheaper you would still recommend? I anecdotally like the Canon color science but don't know if they have something like FX30/A7SIII.

There's also Panasonic BGH1, for multicam control, image, and power on 1 Ethernet line -- any experience with that? It would be tough for a mezzanine shot or whatever, but otherwise sounds amazing.

Lastly, is there any portable way I can improve lighting in a sizeable but darkish church (umbrella softboxes, Westcott LED panels, etc), or would I need theatrical lights?

Thanks again,

Larry

Edited November 2, 2023 by Larry Sanbourne

[Jon O'Brien]

No worries Larry, my advice probably wasn't much help to you. Actually I'd say you will soon have enough experience to be able to come back here, and let me and everyone else interested in this sort of filming know what works best and how to best go about doing it. I've got no experience yet with multicam control (I'm a bit of a backwoods filmer, maybe -- I like to do everything manually as much as I can), however I do hope to get into this sort of thing a little bit further along the track.

I'm genuinely interested to know more about how to do this sort of filming, so I hope you can let us know what you learn. I have a background in film cameras and only got into digital videography not all that long ago, and as a musician myself I've been busy with that lately, so ... I'm on a journey of discovery like you.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here and give you the exact advice you are looking for. For the lighting in a church, I myself would probably go and hire, say, two or three large Aputure 600 lights, with diffusers, and see how that worked. I don't know much about the cameras you mentioned. One thing though, I've found that often the best person to advise you is yourself. You need to do your research (which of course you're doing) then just make a choice and start filming. You will quickly learn. So much equipment is so good these days that really nearly anything with a good reputation will be fine. 

[Jon O'Brien]

Also, I prefer the 'Canon look' to the Sony look. But then, some people say it can all be changed in post to whatever look you like. I remain unconvinced however. It's just less work if you have something in camera that already looks good as soon as you do a light bit of tweaking in colour grading, whack a LUT on it, etc.

[Jon O'Brien]

Finally, one other tip. If it can be afforded, a Super 8 camera to film 'on the road' scenes between gigs might really add some human interest to videos. You know, setting up, someone getting the fiddle or clarinet out backstage for a quick warmup next to the stage risers, etc .... But depends what look you are going for. That's it from me for now ?

[Karim D. Ghantous]

If AF tracking isn't a priority, and I assume that it isn't, I'd go with Panasonic. Just IMHO. OTOH, the Sony video cameras have a very good reputation. So does the OG BMPCC.

[Larry Sanbourne]

Hi all, I've spent the past week researching options before getting back to you.

First, clearly lighting has an enormous impact that I haven't fully appreciated. I've been reading and learning a lot. But lighting a small organ loft with even vaguely portable lights seems extremely challenging if not impossible (?). I have been learning about very portable things like https://www.fjwestcott.com/products/flex-cine-bi-color-mat-1-x-1, and less portable things like umbrellas and such, but it remains an immense challenge especially when I'm also trying to position mics properly.

I've been learning about Panasonic BHG1, which is expensive but has Ethernet for power. This would be ideal except that sometimes we have to have cameras on different levels of venues (e.g. a mezzanine for a wide-angle shot)...

I'm considering upgrading to iPhone 15 for my personal phone and at least getting used to log grading with that, trying to work on my lighting skills, etc. For recordings at the end of the month I may rent a Sony FX30 from borrowlenses (no BGH1 there alas) and see how that feels... Will report back.

Meanwhile, if anyone has any advice at all on lighting, or even just how to learn about it, that would be amazing.

[Karim D. Ghantous]

2 hours ago, Larry Sanbourne said:

Meanwhile, if anyone has any advice at all on lighting, or even just how to learn about it, that would be amazing.

If lighting isn't too critical, consider putting diffusers over existing lights in the venue. That's the easiest option.

You could also try soft lighting from the front, hard lighting from the back (don't put too much power through the back lights - just use as much as you need for it to look right). Lights should be as far away as possible.

Try and keep the lights the same so your WB is easier. Also, add a couple of hundred degrees of warmth above the WB reading.

Spot meter off caucasian skin, and add a stop, and your exposure is pretty much done. Make sure that lighting is as even as possible, so that the people in the corners are getting the same light as the people in the middle.

I'm not a lighting expert, but I can make do with almost anything. Keep it fun and you'll do okay. Don't think of it like an English Literature exam. ?

[Larry Sanbourne]

43 minutes ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

If lighting isn't too critical, consider putting diffusers over existing lights in the venue. That's the easiest option.

You could also try soft lighting from the front, hard lighting from the back (don't put too much power through the back lights - just use as much as you need for it to look right). Lights should be as far away as possible.

Try and keep the lights the same so your WB is easier. Also, add a couple of hundred degrees of warmth above the WB reading.

Spot meter off caucasian skin, and add a stop, and your exposure is pretty much done. Make sure that lighting is as even as possible, so that the people in the corners are getting the same light as the people in the middle.

I'm not a lighting expert, but I can make do with almost anything. Keep it fun and you'll do okay. Don't think of it like an English Literature exam. ?

Thanks so much for your reply. Sounds like I need a spot meter.

Here's an example some of the lighting we had recently. In the very far shot, some of the light on the organ loft is created via the color grade, since it wasn't differentiated enough, but this should give you some idea. It is hard to imagine where we would have placed additional lights since the loft was so small?

Some of our sessions occurred at night, which of course will make the color grading super difficult on the edit. Would any portable lights have been able to help with this despite the massive amounts of daylight pouring?

 

An example before grading:

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I actually think your night footage will be easier. After all, if it isn't lit, then you don't have to film it! You could begin the video with a crossfade from day to night. 

And night lighting is arguably easier, because you don't have to try to hide your lights, especially if you are shooting a documentary. Maybe some charming lanterns or candles would be nice? Lots of choices there. Hopefully someone more experienced will give their opinion on that.

As for the video above: I think you did a pretty good job. The lighting was arguably 'flat' but it didn't distract at all. Nothing looked muddy or anaemic. Lack of obvious detail in the singer's hair (e.g. at 0:43) is just a side-effect of not having lights exactly where you want them. Given that you don't really need perfect footage for your intended purposes, I think you don't have much to worry about.

I thought that the angle from the opposite side of the Church, for the wide shot, was slightly awkward. I'd have preferred it centred, just like Kubrick would have done. (Heheheh). Also, I noticed that you had no close-up of the violin player.

Hopefully my opinions are of some use.