Do film cameras still need pulldown mechanisms at all in this day and age?

[Don H Marks]

Thanks for the info on the Hulcher. 

 

I did find some additional info on a 120 version of the Hulcher's shutter:

 

The camera is equipped with a rotary disk type shutter operating close to the focal plane. The opeining in this disk shutter may be varied from 3 to 70 degrees by means of a control knob, directly under the lens support. 

[Geffen Avraham]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:56 PM, Steve Switaj said:

I present the Hulcher 35 

      https://www.leitz-auction.com/en/Hulcher-35-Sequence-Camera-Model-112/AI-22-14420

Charles Hulcher was technician working for the NACA in the 50's when he developed a design for a still camera capable of taking quick bursts of photos. 

Hulcher eventually made a variety of models in 35 and 70mm, and they were quite popular with sports photographers well into the 90's, until they were eclipsed by digital cameras that could finally do more than a short burst

     https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3260148/death-high-speed-film-camera-hulcher

Depending on the model, some of the Hulchers had frame rates into the 50 fps range.

I only once saw one up close, and never did quite understand how it worked. It was a 70mm version, the pulldown mechanism had a big swinging arm with a roller that would yank 8 perfs at a time through the gate, which apparently held the film there between pulldowns by friction alone (no need for register pins in a still camera)

How did it get up to speed? Did the motor spin all the time and the mechanism clutch in and out?  Was it driven by magic? Who knows? The Internet doesn't seem to have a lot to say.

Ironically, the Hulcher in the first link I posted (mostly because it has nice clear pictures) seems to have the exact kind of  sprocket drive we've been talking about.

Ah yes, yet another obscure camera. My kind of thread.

I had a Maurer P2, which could run 100ft loads of 70mm film at up to 6fps. It had a very unique shutter mechanism. Not sure how it worked either, I never ran it as it needed a control board I didn't have. 

I left at at an old apartment and it disappeared, idk what happened to it, might still get it back one day.

[Geffen Avraham]

One of Geoff Williamson's cameras used dual counter-rotating movements to reduce vibrations. 

This could be done for a servo-driven intermittent movement as well.

I have managed to get an inexpensive servo motor starting and stopping 24 times per second, but it generates extreme vibration on its own.

[David Mullen ASC]

This discussion reminds me of the history of the movie camera and whether Louis Le Prince invented the movie camera first, just before the Edison Kinetograph... technically he did but he had problems with the intermittent movement mechanism that limited his camera to a really low frame rate.  W.K.L. Dickson solved that to the extent that his final (third) version of the Kinetograph ran close to 48 fps. Also celluloid movie film came out the year Le Prince disappeared and I believe all his experiments were shot on paper rolls, which brings up the question as to how he planned on showing his prints. He had some designs for a projector but I'm not sure how he was going to deal with paper prints...

[Mark Dunn]

13 minutes ago, David Mullen ASC said:

I'm not sure how he was going to deal with paper prints...

Well stills paper negatives were printed by oiling them to make the paper translucent, but you've still got the problem with projecting the print.

Paper negatives didn't last very long in stills photography- barely a decade before glass became practical. Not too useful for moving images, though I believe it was tried.....with a very short running time.

[Geffen Avraham]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:56 PM, Steve Switaj said:

I present the Hulcher 35 

      https://www.leitz-auction.com/en/Hulcher-35-Sequence-Camera-Model-112/AI-22-14420

Charles Hulcher was technician working for the NACA in the 50's when he developed a design for a still camera capable of taking quick bursts of photos. 

Hulcher eventually made a variety of models in 35 and 70mm, and they were quite popular with sports photographers well into the 90's, until they were eclipsed by digital cameras that could finally do more than a short burst

     https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3260148/death-high-speed-film-camera-hulcher

Depending on the model, some of the Hulchers had frame rates into the 50 fps range.

I only once saw one up close, and never did quite understand how it worked. It was a 70mm version, the pulldown mechanism had a big swinging arm with a roller that would yank 8 perfs at a time through the gate, which apparently held the film there between pulldowns by friction alone (no need for register pins in a still camera)

How did it get up to speed? Did the motor spin all the time and the mechanism clutch in and out?  Was it driven by magic? Who knows? The Internet doesn't seem to have a lot to say.

Ironically, the Hulcher in the first link I posted (mostly because it has nice clear pictures) seems to have the exact kind of  sprocket drive we've been talking about.

Ah yes, yet another obscure camera. My kind of thread.

The Hulcher "kitchen mixer" movement may be the key to making quieter film cameras, as it continuously rotates and requires no reciprocating parts.

I imagine the image registration is inferior to a Mitchell, but this is irrelevant. If it cannot be fixed with modern servo motor control, then it can easily be remedied by projecting a laser cross fiducial marker onto the unused area of the film negative, for post stabilization.

The end result is perfect registration, and quieter running on set.

Edited November 15, 2025 by Geffen Avraham

[Matt Figler]

7 hours ago, Geffen Avraham said:

The Hulcher "kitchen mixer" movement may be the key to making quieter film cameras, as it continuously rotates and requires no reciprocating parts.

I imagine the image registration is inferior to a Mitchell, but this is irrelevant. If it cannot be fixed with modern servo motor control, then it can easily be remedied by projecting a laser cross fiducial marker onto the unused area of the film negative, for post stabilization.

The end result is perfect registration, and quieter running on set.

If anyone would like to see the film path, 'beater' pulldown of a Hulcher, here's mine. I'm in slow pursuit of adapting a 400ft mag. I think with modern scan tech, frame to frame registration is less of the issue it once was. The variable shutter is a simple brilliant design, it's two intersecting circles with a pie slice cut out, this particular body goes to 24fps (conveniently). 

Edited November 15, 2025 by Matt Figler

[Matt Figler]

[Matt Figler]

[Geffen Avraham]

That's a beauty! How does the pressure plate work? Is there a solenoid pressing it down during exposure, or just passive springs?

[Matt Figler]

15 hours ago, Geffen Avraham said:

That's a beauty! How does the pressure plate work? Is there a solenoid pressing it down during exposure, or just passive springs?

It's a basic spring mech, about as complex as a money clip. The mirror is fixed & semi transparent  for TTL viewing. 

[Geffen Avraham]

Have you shot anything with this? How is the image registration? How loud is it?

Edited November 16, 2025 by Geffen Avraham

[Geffen Avraham]

Hulcher's still-extant website also mentions the ability to install fiducial markers in this camera, which are like little lights projected onto blank areas of the negative. This means that even if registration sucks mechanically, you can make it more stable than an Oxberry with 5 minutes of motion track work in Fusion.