Matt Wells Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 How viable is a standard 16 to 35mm blow up? I am currently working on an idea for a short film, but I really want to present it on film, and I like the look of standard 16 - I know that there is loss of quality when blowing up to 35. I had a discussion on another thread yeaterday with regards to my route for shooting colour reversal and finishing on 16mm print, but I know this restricts my sound quality So I am thinking of this: - shoot colour reversal - work print from original - edit work print and then cut original - internegative from cut original - blow up to 35mm from interneg Does this sound feasable? I know there is a cost factor with optical blow ups. I expect the film to run for 15 mins max. John provided me an excellent link on the other thread to the ACVL website. I am just wondering if anyone can share their opinions. Many thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 So I am thinking of this: - shoot colour reversal - work print from original - edit work print and then cut original - internegative from cut original - blow up to 35mm from interneg Does this sound feasable? I know there is a cost factor with optical blow ups. I expect the film to run for 15 mins max. Better to blow up TO the 35mm IN. (probably, this would be 5272 or 2272). Better quality, plus if you want to make any additional 35mm prints it's jjust a contact print - you don't have to blow it up again !! But you will likely need to zero cut your 16mm A & B rolls, then. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 Thanks for that - Oh yes I didn't spot that I would be continually doing blowups if ever I wanted further release prints. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted May 12, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted May 12, 2004 Do you have a good reason to be shooting color reversal or is it because you think it will save you money? In terms of preserving the 16mm aspect ratio, you can either blow it up to 35mm 1.37 Academy and only show it in those few theaters that project Academy these days, or you can blow it up "windowboxed" within a 1.66 or 1.85 area of the 35mm frame. When projected with a standard 1.85 matte, you'd have only black borders on the sides of the frame. You'd preserve all of the 16mm frame if it were blown up to fit within 1.85, or you can blow it up to fit withing 1.66 and let the 1.85 projection slightly crop it top & bottom but have less black on the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 As regards the colour reversal, it is really because I like the sound of the very saturated colours with the new 100D, although I have not tried this stock yet. I have no problem with shooting on negative. The main thing I am interested in is presenting the film on film. If blown up to 35mm I would envisage cropping the 16mm frame when printed. I am really just trying to fathom the best route to my festival print.......stick with 16mm or blow up to 35? Many thanks for the help, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted May 12, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted May 12, 2004 So are you going to frame the 16mm for cropping? Why not just shoot in Super-16 then? It's important to test this blow up because the contrast will be higher once you dupe to an internegative and make a print. You may have to adjust your fill light levels. "Buffalo 66" was shot on 35mm color reversal and duped to an IN but they ended up flashing the IN to reduce contrast, reducing color saturation as well. Hopefully you can avoid this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 It's important to test this blow up because the contrast will be higher once you dupe to an internegative and make a print. You may have to adjust your fill light levels. "Buffalo 66" was shot on 35mm color reversal and duped to an IN but they ended up flashing the IN to reduce contrast, reducing color saturation as well. Hopefully you can avoid this. I suspect you might very well end up flashing the IN if you're shooting on 100D. If you go this route, You're the beta tester for this. A test - flash / flashing ammount / don't flash would be a very good idea. I don't know what lab you're planning on using, but I imagine they would want to do such tests in fact. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwff Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 In regards to: "I had a discussion on another thread yeaterday with regards to my route for shooting colour reversal and finishing on 16mm print, but I know this restricts my sound quality" You can have your 16mm color reversal original printed to 16mm color reversal stock (7399) as Release Print WITH SOUND (positive optical sound) with the same quality as the print from a negative optical sound. For 16mm positive optical sound call McClear Digital (Toronto) at 416.977.9740. For 16mm processing and printing Color Reversal call Black & White Film Factory (Toronto) at 416.763.0750 or go to www.blackandwhitefilmfactory.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 13, 2004 Author Share Posted May 13, 2004 So are you going to frame the 16mm for cropping? Why not just shoot in Super-16 then? Basically because I have a standard 16 camera, and I don't want to have to either rent or buy a super16 camera. But, what are the limits of sound quality on 16mm prints? At school we used to have films presented on 16mm and I seem to remember the sound being OK, but it is about 10 years ago and I can't really remember that well. The only reasons I am thinking about blowing up to 35mm is sound quality, but I would much rather stick to 16mm if the sound quality is acceptable - I know that obviously the origination and mix has a lot to do with the quality of the sound, but I am interested as to how much quality will be lost with 16mm optical sound. Again - I am really just trying to find the best route to my release print, and I know that comprimises a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 13, 2004 Author Share Posted May 13, 2004 ...........As regards shooting reversal, while I like the idea of shooting reversal I think that it is going to be far more straight forward to shoot negative Many thanks indeed for all the help..... Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeSelinsky Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Unless you get the soundtrack developed separately from the picture, a process called "dual applicated sound", you're going to have to settle for a dye soundtrack and that's going to be pretty poor. I don't know who does dual applicated sound anymore, I know A-1 reversal doesn't do it and I think Yale told me they don't either - though I may be wrong. - G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted May 13, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted May 13, 2004 George is correct. I'm not sure many labs offer silver soundtracks on reversal prints any longer. So if you want an optical soundtrack, an internegative would be the way to go, with prints on 16mm Kodak VISION Color Print Film 3383. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwff Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 16mm Optical Sound Negative or Positive is available. McClear Digital in Toronto (416.977.9740) can transfer your original sound to either negative or positive 16mm optical sound. Black & White Film Factory (Toronto) can make 16mm Final Print (b&w neg or reversal or color reversal) with negative or positive sound. The sound quality is the same in any case, however it is not hi-fi (it is around 20Hz-14KHz ) and it could be done as Mono only. For sure less quality then 35mm sound (hi-fi, Stereo, Dolby SR), but this is the only way to get an optical sound in 16mm format these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 I think this is the way I am heading: Shoot colour negative Telecine non-linear edit EDL 16mm print with optical sound As long as I can achieve good mono sound I think this will be OK. I was thinking of not going the non-linear route, because I wanted a sort of "hands on" filmaking experience. But I think it is going to be a hassle in terms of equipment etc. Many thanks for the help, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted May 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted May 14, 2004 The DTS digital sound system has been successfully used with 16mm prints: http://www.dtsonline.com/cinema/press-arti...3&yID=2002&cID= http://www.dtsonline.com/cinema/specialvenues/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 Thanks for that John. I am sort of thinking that 16mm optical mono will be OK for me. However I see the DTS system involves the use of a CD rom which syncs with the film with the use of a time code. How does the CD rom interface with the projector - can it interface with any projector? Regards, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted May 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted May 14, 2004 In most cases, the projector is equipped with a time-code reader that reads the proprietary DTS time code printed on the print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wells Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 I see now.....very useful to know. Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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