no more 16mm kodak color reversal?

[Guest Erik]

Hi all, I just read on a newsgroup that I belong to that Kodak's dumping 16mm color reversal at the end of the year. Is this old news, true, or both?

thanks

Erik

[David Mullen ASC]

They are dumping their old VNF stocks, partly because they need to phase out VNF processing for environmental reasons (I think), but mainly because of low sales. They will be offering their E6 Ektachrome 100D stock though.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

This super-8 ektachrome I have here says "Process VNF or RVNP." I presume that the RVNP process (about which I know nothing) is as undesirable as the VNF?

 

Phil

[GeorgeSelinsky]

RVNP is a very fast version of VNF-1, which can develop your reversal film in 7 minutes plus drying time, versus the 14 minutes plus drying of VNF-1. I imagine the images must be a little grainier and contrastier as a result, but I never tried it before (I gather this was the process that TV stations ran).

 

- G.

[John Pytlak RIP]

The reason for discontinuing the VNF films is that these decades-old film formulations would need to be completely rebuilt to meet current environmental guidelines. The current sales volume does not justify the $Millions that would be required for the reformulation. Both VNF-1 and RVNP processes will likely be around at some labs until film stocks are used up.

[K Borowski]

John: Please tell me that Kodak is going to introduce more stocks than just 5/7285 (is that the right number?), a 100 speed daylight stock that isn't useful at all for what 7240 was. I have used 7240 for my ultra-low budget DR8 movie and it worked great in a mall at night with only available lighting. A 100 speed daylight, even without filters and correspondingly oranger color would still be underexposed in such conditions. Also, I need something to film my 11:00 news spots! :lol: Seriously though, I really think Kodak needs to consider a simple reperforation of Ektachrome 64 and 100 and 400, not the E series, but the neutral, older emulsion ones. This would be simple to do, right?

 

Regards,

Karl Borowski

[John Pytlak RIP]

Certifying a still film for motion picture use is not a "simple" matter. Not all still films are suitable for motion-picture use, and may require significant reformulation for things like camera transport, halation, anti-static properties, etc. So I can make no promises about additional reversal films, except that I let those planning future products know of your desires. :)

[K Borowski]

Thank you John. That is very kind, only say that I am 35 and there are 100 of me :D When I mean the old non-E family stocks, I mean stocks such as EPT 160T, EPJ 320T, and EPL 400, which probably aren't hot sellers anyway and would benefit from a boost in sales due to an added motion picture, scientific applications market to drive up demand and sales. Also nice stocks would be EPY 64T and EPR 64D. It'd really be nice to have such slow-speed stocks for daylight applications as an alternative to Kodachrome. There's nothing wrong with Kodachrome of course, but for a different look and slightly grainier image, I think this'd be a nice alternative. Such stocks were around in the past and it'd be nice to have them back. I also think that without either the EPJ or EPT, Super 8 and Regular 8 shooters such as myself, who rely on reversal because we want to actually project our work, are in dire shape. Unfortunately, Super 8 prints from the negative stocks are simply not being offered (at least not here in the States or at reasonable prices elsewhere). I know we aren't the biggest market ever, but we are the future of film.

 

Regards,

Karl Borowski

[monster vs robot]

Hi Folks:

First of all I'd like to say I'm very thankful that this forum exists. Special thanks to John from Kodak-Amazing resource!

My head is spinning from just reading the past month of discussion on the discontinued reversal stocks.

Can someone confirm that NO reversal will be available after early '05(kodak site)?

I have a job coming up where I want the look of the K40 or Ektachrome, but if I must adapt to a negative to try to simulate that saturated look, what neg stock would be best? Once in telecine I could provide a true reversal reference for the colorist to do a split screen comparison. I might as well adapt to a reversal -less world now. it's depressing.

 

Thanks for any help.

[David Mullen ASC]

Haven't you been reading these posts? It's the old VNF-processed Ektachrome stocks that are being discontinued. Kodak is still offering their E6 Ektachrome 100D and Fuji still offers their Velvia 64D. K40 for now as well.

 

Now what will happen to the Super-8 line-up, I don't know.

 

Kodak just came out with new 16mm b&w reversal stocks by the way. Where did you read that Kodak was getting rid of ALL reversal stocks?

[John Pytlak RIP]

Again, the films being discontinued by early next year are the decades-old VNF films, which were originally designed for television newsgathering:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...PCN040804_Q.pdf

 

5285 will now be available in 16mm (7285):

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...PCN031304_Q.pdf

 

And two of the new VISION2 Color Negative Films will be available in Super-8:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...PCN041604_Q.pdf

 

Here are the B&W films, including the new reversal films:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...0.1.4.4.8&lc=en

[monster vs robot]

Hi:

I guess where I became confused is that on the Kodak website the release says Ektachrome 100 introduced, then just below that the link says Ektachrome to be discontinued by end of 2004, when you click on that link it brings up a PDF that says exactly that in the first sentence. But both were dated June 2004.

Now I'm clear.

 

Would there be anything that would threaten the continuance of these remaining color reversals? Thank goodness for the new B/W process.

 

Back to the negative question-How close do you think you can come to simulating the reversal look without printing and if you could do a split screen comparison with the actual reversal in telecine? The reason I am hesitant to shoot significant amounts of reversal is the lack of latitude and I am a green shooter working in various conditions. As some have alluded, it just doesn't seem to be just a matter of color saturation in the reversal,but in a process that is complex enough to be difficult to replicate digitally. In the end I think it might be like comparing an LP to a CD. Any thoughts?

Thanks

[John Pytlak RIP]

Would there be anything that would threaten the continuance of these remaining color reversals?

 

A need to reformulate the films at a cost that cannot be justified by the sales volume could force some tough decisions.

 

In the case of E-6 EKTACHROME and KODACHROME films, professional and consumer photographers "drive" the market, and motion picture (EI) optimizes and certifies the formulations for movie use.

 

If you are transferring your film to video or DI, there is considerable flexibility in defining the "look". The VISION2 Color negative films actually give you more flexibilty on the set and during transfer.

[Sam Wells]

Back to the negative question-How close do you think you can come to simulating the reversal look without printing and if you could do a split screen comparison with the actual reversal in telecine?

I love Kodachrome for some things but strictly for telecine I'd be inclined to shoot 7245,

I push this stock for print and it looks kinda "E6" to me.

 

I'm not sure if my idea of "reversal look" is the same as yours, nor am I ever sure when I read that on forums like this, as all reversal stocks do not look the same to me.

 

Pola screen in some cases can help give you a "reversal look" as the term seems to be commonly used; red enhancer may be usefull - or not ---

 

I mean if you want to get heavily into post techniques & gear you might simulate all kinds of things.....

 

Just because todays color neg stocks have a bit of latitude doesn't mean your exposures should be all over the map. Although this can depend on your map I suppose ;)

 

-Sam