gels

[Chris Cooke]

Well I've made by decision. I'll get Rosco Cinegel instead, from descriptions of Rosco, it sounds better than this E-colour, well if anything, it didn't get an Oscar for nothing.

It's deep dyed, on a heat resistant polymer. In combination with the rosco heat shield it should last.

I'll take two sheets, and cut them in 8, I'll take one sheet of heat shield and cut it in 4.

I've also ordered every kind of Swatchbook from Rosco that they offer (directly from Rosco),

I'll use these with flashes, they will cover a small flash unit pretty well.

 

thanks everyone for their help

 

Good plan. Just make sure that you leave at least a couple inches in between the heat shield and the colored gel.

[Filip Plesha]

Yea, I've been thinking about that, and I still have to figure out how to do that.

 

 

Without buying some general filter holders, I only have one option for attaching gels, and that is at the end of the barn doors, or in form of using alternative color glass on the head.

But I can only attach one gel on the doors, because they will otherwise touch.

 

Now I could use some tape to attach the shield on the support frame of the barn doors, and it would be easy to do that because there is enough room, but I don't know wheather its a good idea to put the shield so close to the glass.

 

Here is how the whole thing looks like:

 

 

You have any ideas where to put the shield?

 

 

Also, If I put multiple layers of the color gel, will they melt together too?

[Chris Cooke]

I put multiple gels on the same light all the time. Since I work for a tv station full time as the lighting director, we have many rolls of gels kicking around so I don't worry too much about them melting together. If you put the heat shield behind the barndoors right in front of the lens and then attached multiple gels to the barndoors it should be fine. The other option is attach the heat shield to the barndoors with some C-47's (clothespins) and then mount the gel in a frame a foot or so from the fixture.

[Filip Plesha]

Well, economy plays a role here too.

By attaching the gels to the barndoors I get to use a smaller area, which means I can cut into more peaces. So I think the first option is better me.

But are you sure the heat shield will be fine that close to the lens?

 

Now, what happens to heat shields over time? Do they lose their heat shielding ability or what?

 

 

thanks

[Chris Cooke]

Well, economy plays a role here too.

By attaching the gels to the barndoors I get to use a smaller area, which means I can cut into more peaces. So I think the first option is better me.

But are you sure the heat shield will be fine that close to the lens?

 

Now, what happens to heat shields over time? Do they lose their heat shielding ability or what?

thanks

 

http://www.rosco.com/canada/technotes/filt...e_2a.asp#SHIELD

Check out this page. The heat shield will not melt if you're using Fresnels or PARS (unless you're using 10k's or bigger). Open faced lights get a lot hotter. Especially red heads. I've never used that particular light that you've got a picture of but it doesn't seem like it would get hotter than 480 degrees F behind the barndoors. Why don't you try it with a piece.

[Filip Plesha]

Well to tell you the truth I don't know how hot it is because I've never touched real cinema lights, so I can't compare. But how hot can they get with just 1250W? I think not that much compared to

stronger units.

Most of the heat comes from radiation of the bulb. The units themselfs are pretty cold when working because the hot air is blown out front through openings all around the glass protection plate.

[timHealy]

Chris,

 

Regular heat shield can easily fail with larger HMI pars, especially if they have no lens or a spot lens.

 

I can't recall whether I have seen thermoshield burn up though. I think I have under really unusual applications. But I can't remember the exact situation.

 

Filip,

 

A 1250 watt light?? Are you writing of a 1200w HMI par or perhaps a 1200w tungsten par some call a firestarter? Or a type a light not available here on the other side of the world. Anyway either 1200 is hot enough to burn your hands whether you touch the housing itself in the wrong spot without gloves or put your hand in the beam long enough. And even if you wear gloves while working with lights, you could burn your hands if you pick the light up in the wrong spot. Unless they are the type of gloves welders use.

 

Best

 

Tim

[Guest jme138]

Now I could use some tape to attach the shield on the support frame of the barn doors, and it would be easy to do that because there is enough room, but I don't know wheather its a good idea to put the shield so close to the glass.

 

ACK! don't use tape on barn doors, it will become a horrible sticky mess, always use a gel frame or "c47s" aka "bullets" aka "clothespins"

[Filip Plesha]

This is not cinema lighting...thus the uncommon wattage.

These are compact tungsten lights, made for photography (as what photographers call hotlights) or as compact video lighting.

Still films are usually rated at 400ISO (versus 500ISO cinema films), so you need a bit more light to have an 1K equivalent for still photography.

 

But this is just a compact line of products, that manufacturer makes also big tungsten and HMI's too, but those are too big for me, and more expensive.

This is really an alternative to flashes for me, because I like the preview you get with continuous lighting.

 

The reason I started this thread is because I'm planing to switch to daylight film, It's easier to find

and you have a lot more choices, so I need a gel to make the lights 5600K

 

hot enough to burn your hands

 

Well the housing itself is about room temperature even when working.

The hot part are the barndoors if you close them down and touch them later, and of course the glass

in front of the bulb (which I didn't touch of course).

 

 

 

ACK! don't use tape on barn doors, it will become a horrible sticky mess, always use a gel frame or "c47s" aka "bullets" aka "clothespins"

 

Do you guys use some special clothespins specially made for that purpuse or use any clothespins?

[Jamie Metzger]

From my experience with 2k lights outdoors, I never had to worry about the gel heating up, or burning; but then again, it was fairly cold and windy.

 

Usually a gel attached to a barn door (obviously not the light) should give the heat room to dissipate before hitting the gel.

[rufian84]

And how many days can you use one piece of gel before the dye fades?

I understand that your lights are 1250, yeah? With that power and having the gel attached at the end of the barn doors, your gels will last a long time. By a long time I mean months of re-use (true for rosco, lee filters have a thinner base and show discoloration and warping much faster than rosco).

 

As for the original question about the sizes in which gels are available, you should check with your local film commission to find out about suppliers of expendables. Companies that cater the film industry carry the gels on rolls. You can "rent" the roll and, when you return it, you get credit for the unused portion.

 

I hope this helps you.

 

Cheers,

 

Rafael Baez

 

Filip,

 

A 1250 watt light?? Are you writing of a 1200w HMI par or perhaps a 1200w tungsten par some call a firestarter? Or a type a light not available here on the other side of the world. Anyway either 1200 is hot enough to burn your hands whether you touch the housing itself in the wrong spot without gloves or put your hand in the beam long enough. And even if you wear gloves while working with lights, you could burn your hands if you pick the light up in the wrong spot. Unless they are the type of gloves welders use.

 

Best

 

Tim

 

Mole Richardson doesn't make any 1250W lights but there are some smaller manufacturers that doSmith Victor and the IFF Qlites are 1250.

[Guest jme138]

no, there are special "film industry" clothespins, but as with most things you get what you pay for. the cheaper ones pop open (and fly across the room hence the name "bullet") much more easily than more expensive ones.

[Filip Plesha]

Time sure flies.

 

I've recieved my Rosco cinegels in the mail today.

 

They came rolled with sheets of thin paper, bare, not packed in any ambalage.

Now either Rosco packs them like that, or B&H bought it in bulk and it's their fault for the lack of packing.

 

well either way, they are quite full of marks and wrinkles, specially the heat shield, which is very thin and got very wrinkled (there is probably a better expression, but I can't think of one)

 

Are these gels supose to be clean and straight or do they usually get wrinkled like that?

 

I've tried them, and it works just fine, no trouble.

 

Now I can combine these continuous lights with flash, and quit using tungsten film. (though I still have a whole bunch of it stocked in my deep freezer)

Edited March 21, 2006 by Filip Plesha

[Hal Smith]

Time sure flies.

 

I've recieved my Rosco cinegels in the mail today.

 

They came rolled with sheets of thin paper, bare, not packed in any ambalage.

Now either Rosco packs them like that, or B&H bought it in bulk and it's their fault for the lack of packing.

 

well either way, they are quite full of marks and wrinkles, specially the heat shield, which is very thin and got very wrinkled (there is probably a better expression, but I can't think of one)

 

Are these gels supose to be clean and straight or do they usually get wrinkled like that?

 

I've tried them, and it works just fine, no trouble.

 

Now I can combine these continuous lights with flash, and quit using tungsten film. (though I still have a whole bunch of it stocked in my deep freezer)

I buy a lot of Rosco from Production Advantage and some from Norcostco in Dallas, it comes rolled up with tissue paper and (including heat shield) has never come "bunched up" or marked. Talk to B&H's customer service, they owe you. PS: you may have noticed that some of Rosco's gels are now manufactured with built-in static cling. Rosco tells me that's so it can be applied to windows, etc. without any additional tape or support. My jury is out on the static cling - it makes some things easier but picks up dust like mad.

 

Edmond, OK

[Filip Plesha]

This also came rolled up with paper, but it was full of marks. It may be the transportation, I don't know.

But really, I have no interest in sending it back, paying postage to US (from Croatia), and waiting possibly 3-4 weeks to get it back, because it will serve its purpuse, and would get marked and wrinkled anyway. The heat shield is so thin and sensitive that whenever you touch it you brake its structure and leave some kind of trace.

 

Does any manufacturer sell them packed in protective ambalage?

[Chris Cooke]

PS: you may have noticed that some of Rosco's gels are now manufactured with built-in static cling. Rosco tells me that's so it can be applied to windows, etc. without any additional tape or support. My jury is out on the static cling - it makes some things easier but picks up dust like mad.

 

It's just an option that Rosco gives us. I ordered some static cling CTO for a LCD monitor that's shown nearly everyday in one of the shows I light. It's working out quite nice and is still sticking but the bottom edge kept curling up because it came in a roll. So I got some of that double sided tape that we use here in Canada for that shrink film we put on our windows when it's cold.

[Hal Smith]

It's just an option that Rosco gives us. I ordered some static cling CTO for a LCD monitor that's shown nearly everyday in one of the shows I light. It's working out quite nice and is still sticking but the bottom edge kept curling up because it came in a roll. So I got some of that double sided tape that we use here in Canada for that shrink film we put on our windows when it's cold.

Interesting, I've been told that the non-cling was being phased out. Who do you buy your Rosco from? I'd like to call them and see what they say.

 

Edmond, OK

[Chris Cooke]

Interesting, I've been told that the non-cling was being phased out. Who do you buy your Rosco from? I'd like to call them and see what they say.

 

Edmond, OK

 

I order from CineQuip White in Calgary, Alberta quite often and they haven't informed that non-cling was being phased out. I'm sure it's just a misinformed rumor that you heard but if your right, i'll be calling Rosco and letting them know that I'm not happy. That stuff would be super annoying on the field. You'd get all kinds of dust on it and then put in the barndoors of a narrow spot PAR. Everyone would be frieking out that something's burning.

[Hal Smith]

I order from CineQuip White in Calgary, Alberta quite often and they haven't informed that non-cling was being phased out. I'm sure it's just a misinformed rumor that you heard but if your right, i'll be calling Rosco and letting them know that I'm not happy. That stuff would be super annoying on the field. You'd get all kinds of dust on it and then put in the barndoors of a narrow spot PAR. Everyone would be frieking out that something's burning.

The plot thickens, be sure to post what Rosco tells you.

 

Edmond, OK

[Filip Plesha]

Oh, I forgot again...

 

does the heat shield (the regular one) from Rosco have the "right" and the "wrong" side or can I turn it any way?