Super 16mm Krasnogorsk 3

Andy Boreham · January 5, 2007

Hey people,

My Super 16mm K3 has just arrived from eBay (Super 16 gate, pro modification, re-centred viewfinder and lens) and will do a test shortly.

Any suggestions?

Bryant Jansen · January 5, 2007

I would scratch test it with a dummy load, do a registration check, and check the lense. Just standard stuff.

Googled it and found a K-3 prep checklist from some film school (didnt read it, hope its helpful):

http://mis15.ncarts.edu/film/manuals/k3_prep_checklist.pdf

Mike Rizos · January 5, 2007

Congratulations on purchacing the camera. Hope you have a lot of fun with it. I've never heard of a K3 completely modified for super16. Who did the modification, which mount does it have, and which lens comes with it. Which lens(es) are you planning on using?

I would do the following tests:

1. After a thourough visual inspection, wind the camera completely and run it at no more than 24fps for the full wind. Do this several times, timing the running time, to see if it's consistent. Listen to it's sound and see if it slows down towards the end of the wind. If the camera has a frame counter, set the speed at 24 or 25fps and run the camera for 10 seconds and see if you got the correct # of frames. Adjust the speed and repeat. Note the position of the speed dial where it's most accurate.

2. Practice loading the camera with some old film.

3. With never before used film do a scratch test. Run a few feet into the take up spool, and examine at least a foot of it with a magnified glass on both sides. Here's a thread on scatch testing.

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...hl=scratch+test

4. Perform a visual registration test. Run the camera with double perf film, and observe the perforation through the mount with the lens removed. There should be no weaving or jerkiness.

5. You can also do a rough framing test at this point. The mirror brings the ground glass into view for half the time when the camera is running. The other half you see the gate. By looking directly at the gate when the camera is running, you'll see the lines of the groung glass superimosed on the gate when the mirror passes. A big misalignment will be apparent, but it takes a little practice to do this.

6. If you supect framing innacuracy, or you plan on shooting something important, you should do proper framing and registration tests:

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...gistration+test

7. Shoot some film, before imbarking on something important. Always check the gate for dirt, at every roll change. Also do a scratch test at every roll change. Load film in the shade. Shoot at all focal lengths, and apertures as much as possible. If you have the stock lens it won't cover super16 fully. Determine at what focal length it does cover.

If it all checks out you're ready to shoot Jackson's next Tolkien movie. ;)

Will Montgomery · January 5, 2007

While your viewfinder may have been widened to view the Super 16 area, its probably not "re-centered." Not that big of a deal on a K-3, just that the brightness falls off quite a bit on the right side of the viewfinder but the film should be fully covered.

Shoot some film and check it out, you may be just fine. I ran into a problem with my lens where the first frame of a take would be perfectly in focus and then go slightly blurry. It was a collimation problem with the Meteor zoom lens... other M42 still camera lenses didn't show that problem.

I'd suggest picking up a 28mm, 35mm or even 50mm M42 Pentax Super Takumar lens so you can have another lens option and see if you notice a difference in quality or focus. They're pretty cheap on eBay and plenty of small camera stores have them laying around.

Andy Boreham · January 6, 2007

Thanks so much for your help everyone so far! Have come to do the scratch test by running through film that hasn't been used anywhere before.

But I've noticed a difference between this K3 and my old standard 16 K3 and that is that they sound so different when running at apparently the same speed.

The Super 16 on at 24fps sounds like my old K3 running at 48fps. Could this be to do with the modification, or does each camera simply sound different? Or could it be the dire situation that perhaps this new camera isn't running at the rate it's meant to?

Your ideas, please!! :)

Mike: I'm not sure who did the modification... perhaps I should have asked! It has the M42 mount and just came with the standard lens, which I'm aware won't cover the Super 16mm frame below about 27mm. I also have a Peleng 8mm (which I think is going to fisheye even more than normal with the wider frame, bummer) and just bought a 28mm Pentax Takumar as Will suggested... looks nice so far!

Olex Kalynychenko · January 6, 2007

But I've noticed a difference between this K3 and my old standard 16 K3 and that is that they sound so different when running at apparently the same speed.

The Super 16 on at 24fps sounds like my old K3 running at 48fps. Could this be to do with the modification, or does each camera simply sound different? Or could it be the dire situation that perhaps this new camera isn't running at the rate it's meant to?

A some strange situation.

The serviced K-3 must have less noise.

If the serviced Super 16 camera at 24 fps have similar noise like other K-3 at 48 fps, can show like Super 16 camera have problem with mechanism or bad condition of mechanism, or had bad adjust of mechanism or any other

Super 16 have speed 24 fps or to have speed 48 fps with position of speed switch 24 fps ( not work mechanical speed control module ).

You can measuring of speed of camera. How long film can run camera for fixed time.

Other, the camera with film have a some more noise from camera without film.

Dennis Kisilyov · January 7, 2007

Speaking of K-3's has anyone (besides Olex) seen these film mags for the K-2 ?

These look like fun. I don't know how much easier is loading with these. But worth a look for archival purposes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=120071635461

Thanks so much for your help everyone so far! Have come to do the scratch test by running through film that hasn't been used anywhere before.

But I've noticed a difference between this K3 and my old standard 16 K3 and that is that they sound so different when running at apparently the same speed.

The Super 16 on at 24fps sounds like my old K3 running at 48fps. Could this be to do with the modification, or does each camera simply sound different? Or could it be the dire situation that perhaps this new camera isn't running at the rate it's meant to?

Oddly my original post was lost in the edit, however do try to identify the source of this noise/sound.

Try running the camera at 8fps instead of 24, this way if something mechanical is hitting something you'll hear it more destinclty.

Things to check in order of cost of breaking.

1. Mirror shutter hitting the Meteor Lens (which extends into the body of the camera further than M42 standard lenses)

2. Film Gate/Registration Pin.

3. Film roller assembly chewing on itself.

At 8fps you should be able to hear what is causing this noise (besides the spring motor that is)

My K-3 I've found to be less loud than a Bolex H16 R3 mounted on a tripod.

So you definatly want to find out what is causing it. Motor could be lubricated easily, other parts are harder to fix and replace.

Whatever you do, don't unscrew the film gate - it will go out of flange focal and even though in the viewfinder/groundglass the image will look sharp, it will be out of focus on film.

Everything else should be a easy enough fix... somewhat.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Dennis Kisilyov

Andy Boreham · January 7, 2007

It's not so much that it's louder, it's that it sounds FASTER. Does that make sense? Like it definitely doesn't sound like anything is wrong with it, just sounds like it's running at 48 instead of 24, etc.

Maybe I should run the same piece of film through each and time it??

Dennis Kisilyov · January 8, 2007

It's not so much that it's louder, it's that it sounds FASTER. Does that make sense? Like it definitely doesn't sound like anything is wrong with it, just sounds like it's running at 48 instead of 24, etc.

Maybe I should run the same piece of film through each and time it??

Then my advice would be to run the K-3 through a frame rate meter, usu. you can take a volt-meter and a photosensor set it to HZ measure and see how many fps you're getting on the gate.