Deep Focus

[David Beier]

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could one of you guys fill me in on deep focus and how it works. My understanding is incredibly limited: only that it essentially lets one keep both the forground and background in focus when using telaphoto lenses.

 

I'm curious as to how this is actually accomplished using the lense. I'm also curious if deep focus is still used today by anyone (only examples I've really seen are Welles and Kurosawa), if deep focus lenses are still made, and if so how one would go about obtaining them. I've also hearded it said that high def offers a "deep focus" look to it but, just based on what I've seen, it doesn't quite seem to be the same visually as what you would see in something of Welles's.

 

Thanks.

[David Mullen ASC]

Increasing depth of field is mainly accomplished by using higher light levels and stopping down the lens -- and then, most importantly, designing compositions that take advantage of the extended depth of field.

 

It gets easier to achieve a deeper focus when using imagers that are smaller in size than a 35mm frame, such as 2/3" CCD cameras and 16mm. You get about two more equivalent stops compared to 35mm, i.e. if you shoot at f/5.6, you get the look of shooting in 35mm at f/11 or more.

 

Welles combined this with wide-angle lenses while Kurosawa used longer lenses and thus had to stop down the lens even more than Welles did -- some shots in "Red Beard" were lit and shot at f/22 in 35mm anamorphic widescreen. But Kurosawa did not have as many shots where you had something very close and large in frame in the f.g. and something very far in the background, compared to Welles.

 

Many DV films suffer from excessively deep focus, but many DV filmmakers don't seem to compose well-enough to take advantage of that artifact.

[Felipe Perez-Burchard]

I think it's also worth noting that Welles & Toland used a lot of Matte/Compositing shots, at least in Citizen Kane, to go even further with deep focus.

 

-felipe.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Split diopters can be used for certain scenes where the line of demarcation isn't obvious --- in effect, bifocal glasses for your camera.

[Nate Downes]

I get good deep focus using Super8, it's actually hard *not* to get deep focus with Super8 many times.

[David Beier]

Thank you David as Red Beard (and Yojimbo) are the two Kurosawa's I was really thinking of where I found the effect the most striking. So, what you're saying (and I know I'm probably oversimplifying), is what I need to do to achieve a similar effect is to simply light the hell out of a scene and close down the Iris as much as possible? This will work just as well on video cameras (HD or DVX100A)?

[Sam Wells]

Sometimes deep focus can work against the sense of deep space. In wide shots where *everything* is sharp, deep focus can uncover the trick so to speak (especially in color).

 

When things subtly feather off, the deeper space can be imagined rather than literally imaged, let's say.

 

The inherent small-image-size dof of "lower res" DV cameras tends toward an outlined packaged reduction of what deep space is...

 

In cinema ambiguity can be power, use it wisely :D

 

-Sam

[Sam Wells]

I think it's also worth noting that Welles & Toland used a lot of Matte/Compositing shots, at least in Citizen Kane, to go even further with deep focus.

 

-felipe.

True, but look at "The Magnificent Ambersons" or "The Trial" also......

 

-Sam

[David Mullen ASC]

I love deep focus shots but it puts a tremendous burden on the production design because every bit of color will be in sharp focus and thus be distracting unless controlled carefully. It works better in b&w where you have tone and texture but not the additional layer of color -- with b&w, you can shoot deep focus and use lighting contrasts to direct the eye to what is important. There aren't a lot of deep focus color movies that look good unless really well art directed.

 

You also have to compose the image well to take good advantage of the deeper focus.

 

2/3" CCD HD and SD photography has more depth of field than 35mm on average and smaller CCD cameras have even deeper focus. But since they also have less resolution, the problem is that you can achieve a greater feeling of depth and sharpness by conversely throwing most of the image out-of-focus -- thus what's IN focus looks sharper in comparison and stands out. Plus since deeper focus is inherent to small CCD cameras, one tends to try and get a shallow-focus look as part of making them seem more "film-like." Even though obviously film can be deep focus -- it's just that ON AVERAGE, 35mm will have a more shallow-focus look.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I was about to say that the main reason I hanker after shorter focus is to hide the fact that we're in somebody's friend's flat - but then Mr. Mullen said it in a much better way!

 

Most of the stuff I shoot would just look cheap if you could see the background, so I'm generally on a mission to obscure it in shadow. Very difficult for day interiors - constantly find directors going "Oh, it's too dark, it looks like night."

 

Phil

[John Sprung]

In cinema ambiguity can be power, use it wisely

Yes, moviemaking is a process of controlled revelation.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

One of my pet peeves is seeing interviews for docs shot with consumer DV camcorders and while the person is talking, often in their office, you can read the title of every book on the shelf behind their heads because of the excessively deep focus.

[Justan Zimmerman]

Anyone feel like sharing what color films they admire for their extensive use of deep focus? It isn?t done very much, and often not very well, but when it works I love it almost as much as black and white deep focus.

 

Spielberg used deep focus quite a bit in his early films. Jaws, Close Encounters, and E.T. come to mind (I love the look of E.T. and all of Spielberg and Allen Daviau?s work together).

 

Bridge on the River Kwai.

 

Darius Khonji does a lot of deep focus (and manages to make color look like black and white).

 

Titus and Richard III (with Ian McKellan not Olivier). I guess 2.35 deep focus works well for all those speaking parts Shakespeare provides.

[David Mullen ASC]

A lot of Douglas Slocombe's work was deep focus, color and b&w. "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" has a dialogue scene in a rich man's living room that is fairly deep focus. "Lady Jane" is unusual for being a deep focus period movie which normally would be done in low-light candlelight in shallow focus. Same for his earlier "Lion in Winter" but his later color films benefitted from faster film stocks in order to stop down the lens even more.

 

There are many color movies with occasional deep focus "trick" shots even though overall the movie is more conventional in terms of the amount of depth of field. And there are wide-angle color movies that seem to be deep focus but in the tight shots, you can tell that they weren't stopping down the lens. Terry Gilliam films come to mind.

[Sam Wells]

For "over the top" nearly insane deep focus in color see Guy Maddin's "Twlight of The Ice Nymphs" if you ever get chance !

 

-Sam

[Ignacio Aguilar]

For "over the top" nearly insane deep focus in color see Guy Maddin's "Twlight of The Ice Nymphs" if you ever get chance !

 

Check also any of Sergio Leone's Techniscope films, specially Once upon a time in the west, shot by Tonino Delli Colli. Lots of deep focus, even indoors. Great film, btw.

[Gordon Morrice]

A lot of Douglas Slocombe's work was deep focus, color and b&w. "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" has a dialogue scene in a rich man's living room that is fairly deep focus. "Lady Jane" is unusual for being a deep focus period movie which normally would be done in low-light candlelight in shallow focus. Same for his earlier "Lion in Winter" but his later color films benefited from faster film stocks in order to stop down the lens even more.

 

I saw The Lion in Winter for the first time last week and indeed, it is a beautifully shot film, quite unlike most other historical films of the 60s in that it feels totally real - you can feel the cold of that castle! Terrific film, mesmerizing acting. It made even more anxious to see Becket again - how long will we have to wait?

 

Another brilliant example of deep-focus in a color film is Sidney Lumet's 1972 psychological police drama, The Offense, shot by the great Gerry Fisher. The scenes with Sean Connery and Trevor Howard have, I think, three dynamic deep-focus shots.

 

The effect that diopters have is sometimes too artificial and disguising the blur lines can be tricky. Frankenheimer seems to have fell in love with them in the early 70s even though his previous films have genuine deep-focus (Seven Days in May being a superb example). I Walk the Line even has an outrageous triopter shot:

 

 

 

 

Richard Kline work with Robert Wise is quite interesting, too. The Andromeda Strain has some equally dynamic diopter shots. Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a overuses the diopters, though, simply to get the consoles and screens on the Enterprise in focus, but it - the director's cut - is a visually stunning movie.

 

I really must get around to seeing Lady Jane, though!

[Guest Glenn Brady]

Haven't Canon 35mm SLR TS lenses been adapted to motion picture cameras to achieve deep focus (using the Scheimpflug rule)? Schneider/Century has the Clairmont swing/shift lenses, too, presumably to enable the same effect.