Guillermo Navarro's "Pans Labyrinth" Won the Oscar

[ryan_bennett]

Why is there no comment on the presenter of the award, I think it was Gwyneth Paltrow or Cate Blanchett who said "anyone with a cell phone is a cinematographer and can upload onto youtube". I think that sorta damped things. Plus who was it?

[Pedro Millan]

Nothing will ever get "better" if people don't stop acting like this is all such a big deal. It is about cinema and the legacy of filmmaking and filmmakers, not about which race can get the most awards.

 

Ha.

Its funny how pereceptions are made. I agree it has to be about cinema and filmmakers and I dont think that it is a race competition. And neither is about the opressed latins or afro-americans.

The reality is that is a big achievement for mexicans filmmakers to do films like those. If one understands that they have made all of their films without any help of mexican government and without any help of mexican society, then one can understands in another way the facts that happened.

 

Last year, "In the pit" by Juan Carlos Rulfo (the most awarded mexican film in 2006), was in the theaters with 22 copies. It lasted 1 or 2 weeks. It was because the Hollywood movie of the season appeared in the teathers one week after with almost 1000 copies. Give me a break.

Mexico doesnt have a film industry like Hollywood, there is no industry. Theres is no competition.

 

Dont take it as a big deal.

What happened in the oscar was a message to ourselves, specially to the government, and to the people that is in charge of film in our country. The only thing that showed the oscar for us is how bad is our film industry that people has to emigrate to make the films they want.

 

Let me tell you, that the flag thing was ridiculous. It was given to the filmmakers by some mexican reporters (from TV AZTECA). This is the worst television channel, they dont care about the film industry, the only thing they want is money and the mexican wave in the oscar is perfect for comercials.

 

By the way,

Congratulations to Guillermo Navarro and Emmanuel Lubezki.

 

pedro.

[Guest Luke Chimi]

Francesco,

 

"Luke, unfortunately most countries don't have a film industry as vital as the US. I'm Italian, and I can't tell you how the oscar for Morricone has been covered by the media for weeks now. The Mexican film industry is stronger than before, I don't see anything wrong for people being proud of some fellow mexicans' success."

 

Because, it is not about Mexico, that's the point, it's about filmmaking and filmmakers (maybe some of them happened to be from Mexico). And even if it is about Mexico in their minds, fine, but keep it to yourself, and put your flags down. You can be proud of your heritage without shoving it in everyone's face, which is exactly what waving a flag is doing. Imagine what the people behind them felt when a Mexican flag was blocking their view of the stage. Is it the Oscars, or is it futbol? I don't see what waving a flag has to do with the vitality of your country's film industry. This is a night about cinema, or should we start calling it the Oscar Olympics? I don't understand your need to argue against this. I am not saying they should be banned from the Academy Awards, I am saying don't bring baggage to the Oscars.

 

"I agree, but I think it's because we live in a society that is far more racist than we'd think, and everything "different" is treated as such. It's a pity, it'll take some more time for people to recognize artistic merit per se, forgetting about diversity."

 

If you are from Italy, then you can comment on Italian society, and maybe this is true there. If you are from America then you are completely off on your observation. I am from America, and our country could not possibly be more racist than we think. How could it? We are told constantly that all we have is problems. However, what the media always gets wrong is that Michael Richards does not speak for all of us. Racism is a people problem, not a societal problem. Sure there are citizens in America that have racist attitudes, there is no denying that, but that does not make all of use racist? I am so sick and tired of the media thrusting the race issue into my face, when I have no issue whatsoever with any race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. Take for instance the Super Bowl. How many times do we have to be told that 2 Black Coaches are competing in the Super Bowl for the first time? Aren't they just like any other coach? Does this really matter? Stop making it an issue, because it hadn't even crossed my mind until I was told. And what this does is encourage more intolerance, because we are being told that they aren't just people, they are different, and how great for them to win an award too, despite them being so different!

 

"Actually, I have to defend Salma about that: she shouted "yes" (and I agree it's not really that classy) only for Penelope Cruz, which by the way is her best friend."

 

Well I guess I got it wrong, because I thought she did this at least twice. It would be naive however, to say she was only doing this because Penelope is her Best Friend. After the Golden Globes Salma was interviewed, and in tears discussed how the American Interviewer can't understand what it is like to be part of her group of Latinos that have been struggling for years to get somewhere in this industry, and now finally they are seeing some results. She was crying over Babel winning best picture. It was after this that she decided she would announce the academy award nominees. So even the fact that she was there on the podium was a choice based on ethnicity. Why wouldn't she do it on any other year before this one? Because she wanted to announce all the Latino nominations this year, and cheer on her friends, and make some point to everyone watching. She was just short of waving a flag.

 

"for most people in the business, is exactly like that. For the rest of the world watching, it's different: the media stress the racial or nationality issue because it's the easiest way to make some news out of thin air. The majority of people watching the Oscars sit in front of the tv to see celebrities, they don't even know what a cinematographer is."

 

I don't understand your point here. But I agree that most people watching the Oscars don't know the ins and outs of the industry. However, they are watching because they love movies, or they love a specific actor. They certainly are tuning in to be entertained. Do they really have to be reminded of all the stuff mentioned above? That is all I am saying. Just let me eat my popcorn and relish the magic of cinema. Luckily it was an amazing night, especially the last 15 minutes. I am not disagreeing with that. I don't understand why we can't just celebrate movies and leave the politics and horse poop at home. Nothing is without agenda anymore.

 

Luke

 

Ha.

Its funny how pereceptions are made. I agree it has to be about cinema and filmmakers and I dont think that it is a race competition. And neither is about the opressed latins or afro-americans.

The reality is that is a big achievement for mexicans filmmakers to do films like those. If one understands that they have made all of their films without any help of mexican government and without any help of mexican society, then one can understands in another way the facts that happened.

 

Last year, "In the pit" by Juan Carlos Rulfo (the most awarded mexican film in 2006), was in the theaters with 22 copies. It lasted 1 or 2 weeks. It was because the Hollywood movie of the season appeared in the teathers one week after with almost 1000 copies. Give me a break.

Mexico doesnt have a film industry like Hollywood, there is no industry. Theres is no competition.

 

Dont take it as a big deal.

What happened in the oscar was a message to ourselves, specially to the government, and to the people that is in charge of film in our country. The only thing that showed the oscar for us is how bad is our film industry that people has to emigrate to make the films they want.

 

Let me tell you, that the flag thing was ridiculous. It was given to the filmmakers by some mexican reporters (from TV AZTECA). This is the worst television channel, they dont care about the film industry, the only thing they want is money and the mexican wave in the oscar is perfect for comercials.

 

By the way,

Congratulations to Guillermo Navarro and Emmanuel Lubezki.

 

pedro.

 

This makes a lot of sense, and it is very nice to hear such a perspective. However, I don't think it is as simple as you make it seem. I would say almost 100% of people watching in the States would not think "oh yeah, they are just making a statement to their country."

 

And I don't think that is all they are doing either.

 

Luke

Edited February 27, 2007 by Luke Chimi

[Max Jacoby]

Take for instance the Super Bowl. How many times do we have to be told that 2 Black Coaches are competing in the Super Bowl for the first time? Aren't they just like any other coach? Does this really matter? Stop making it an issue, because it hadn't even crossed my mind until I was told. And what this does is encourage more intolerance, because we are being told that they aren't just people, they are different, and how great for them to win an award too, despite them being so different!

That is something which has always struck me about the US, this constant insistence on ethnicity and race. As a European this is very troubling, because very often this seems to turn into some sort of reverse-racism, something which I don't really feel is the case in Europe.

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

I suppose I'm experiencing a cultural disconnect sometimes here on the web -- when some DP says about anothers' work "I've never been impressed by so-and-so" it comes off to me as cocky and cruel (I don't want to read someone saying the same thing about my entire ouvre...), but for all I know, in other parts of the world, blunt honesty of opinion is valued more and a cutting remark is always forgiven by fellow professionals. Sometimes I even feel that cultural difference between the West Coast and the East Coast, not just between the U.S. and Europe. Maybe our warm weather makes us more mellow, I don't know, or maybe it's the Japanese part of me.

We even have a cultural disconnect between northern and southern California, I hate it, but up north theyre very big on it. Last summer when we were shooting Palo Alto(in Palo Alto), there were always people who would should rude things at us while driving by in the likes of: "Go back to so cal" etc.

[Guest]

I think you Americans should just close the competition to non-Americans and have done with it. And I'm Canadian/British so don't flame me for saying this. You should close the Oscars to foreigners at least until Americans can compete in all international awards. I'm embarrassed that Canada would exclude Americans from our award shows.

 

Especially considering the billions Hollywood puts into the Canadian economy every year.

 

Who cares if Mexico and Canada don't have a domestic film industry, that is our own dumb fault, not the USA's.

 

However, should the impossible happen and I win an Oscar one day, I'll be sure and go up on stage shouting ,"Go Canada Go! Go Canada Go!" Waving my Canadian flag, and give a tearful speech about how hard it is to be Canadian and how I'm so glad Hollywood has finally accepted us.

 

R,

[Francesco Bonomo]

it is not about Mexico, that's the point, it's about filmmaking and filmmakers (maybe some of them happened to be from Mexico). And even if it is about Mexico in their minds, fine, but keep it to yourself, and put your flags down. You can be proud of your heritage without shoving it in everyone's face, which is exactly what waving a flag is doing.

 

Luke, try and put yourself in their shoes: they're a community which is not originally from the States, and through their work in a country that is now their home they can show their second/third-world country can compete at something with the bigger countries. The Oscars are not like the Olympics, that's true, but maybe for some people they are exactly like the Olympics or the world cup.

I think it's a matter of perceiving things differently.

 

If you are from Italy, then you can comment on Italian society, and maybe this is true there. If you are from America then you are completely off on your observation.

 

My comment was in fact about the society which I live in, i.e. Italian, and I would never dare labelling every american a racist (some of my best friends are from the US and Canada, and I think generalizing is always pretty dangerous).

However, if you look at the media, there is a racist trend, and, since we're talking about the oscars, the fact that the race issue is brought upon every time an african-american or a mexican is nominated is a pretty strong proof to me. It's the same on this side of the world, if not even worse.

I agree with you when you say the Oscars should be about filmmaking, but evidently the media don't see it that way, and since they have to fill papers and evening news slots, everything gets blown out of proportion.

 

Sure there are citizens in America that have racist attitudes, there is no denying that, but that does not make all of use racist?

 

I never wrote anything like that and I certainly don't think of Americans (or any people) that way. I apologize if my words were not clear enough.

 

Does this really matter? Stop making it an issue, because it hadn't even crossed my mind until I was told. And what this does is encourage more intolerance, because we are being told that they aren't just people, they are different, and how great for them to win an award too, despite them being so different!

 

Exactly! And that was the whole point I was trying to make earlier when I wrote about racism.

 

Luckily it was an amazing night, especially the last 15 minutes.

 

yes, it really was.

[Pedro Millan]

This makes a lot of sense, and it is very nice to hear such a perspective. However, I don't think it is as simple as you make it seem. I would say almost 100% of people watching in the States would not think "oh yeah, they are just making a statement to their country."

 

And I don't think that is all they are doing either.

 

Luke

 

Luke,

 

Its actually more complicated than that.

Of course we dont expect that all 100% people watching in the States think that, because you dont have any idea about us. That was actually my point.

Maybe to clarify and give a context of what happened.

 

They are not just a group of latinos screaming to the world and right into your face that they are proudly latinos winners. Its more deep and complex.

I know its hard to deal with social and political issues when comes to arts and culture ( who thinks the oscar is not political?) but i am afraid it has to be like that because all countrys are different.

Add the unconvenient truth: the States has racial problems. And the media does not help.

 

pedro.

[Guest Luke Chimi]

Francesco,

 

"Luke, try and put yourself in their shoes: they're a community which is not originally from the States, and through their work in a country that is now their home they can show their second/third-world country can compete at something with the bigger countries. The Oscars are not like the Olympics, that's true, but maybe for some people they are exactly like the Olympics or the world cup.

I think it's a matter of perceiving things differently."

 

If America is now their home than they can leave their flags behind, and more importantly they would not be competing with us! Look, no matter how you argue this, I will never agree that waving a Mexican, or any flag other than a US flag, is an okay thing to do at the Academy Awards. And the message it sends to the country that is hosting and owns the event is not what you describe. It seems like you are just summarizing what Pedro wrote above. And anyone who considers the Oscars the Olympics or World Cup of filmmaking is an idiot. Just because they think of it that way, does not mean it is that. And let me tell you, if Americans really felt that way too, we would have an easy solution, kick every foreign filmmaker right out of there. Clearly it is not the Olympics. It is an award ceremony hosted by The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences. This is an American organization. The Olympics is an international organization.

 

However, I am not just talking about the Mexican Flags and foreign filmmakers, and my post was a much more in depth analysis of a negative presence here in America, which is really media driven. Your apologizing or explaining yourself was not necessary as you did not say anything offensive at all.

 

My post was more of a thinking out-loud statement, it was not directed at you, but inspired by some of your thoughts, which I frankly do not agree with at all.

 

I would love to hear the perspective of another American, and see if what I am feeling is similar to their experience.

 

Luke

[Guest Luke Chimi]

Luke,

 

Its actually more complicated than that.

Of course we dont expect that all 100% people watching in the States think that, because you dont have any idea about us. That was actually my point.

Maybe to clarify and give a context of what happened.

 

I do appreciate that, as I stated. That is an interesting perspective, and I am sure it is true on many levels. But I suppose I don't feel like an American institution like the Academy Awards has to be the campaigning ground for Mexican Filmmakers to prove a point to their homeland, even if that was and is their purest intention (which I doubt). Sure, I don't understand where you come from, but no other country has any idea what it is like to be the country that everyone comes to in order to "make it."

 

And I am not just addressing Mexican Filmmakers, I am addressing any agenda other than filmmaking having a presence at the Oscars. Even the political crap, like the jokes about Al Gore. I guess I always thought movies were about stories, creation, and escaping, but everything on the 5 o'clock news still gets dragged right back into the evening. We do it enough to ourselves, we don't need Latinos and other Foreigners joining in, making it a soccer match. Deal with your problems at home. Use a telephone. Don't wave a flag on TV. Is that too much to ask?

 

 

They are not just a group of latinos screaming to the world and right into your face that they are proudly latinos winners. Its more deep and complex.

I know its hard to deal with social and political issues when comes to arts and culture ( who thinks the oscar is not political?) but i am afraid it has to be like that because all countrys are different.

Add the unconvenient truth: the States has racial problems. And the media does not help.

 

pedro.

 

Well that sure as hell is what it seems like. Not a lot of Americans are thinking "This must be more deep and complex." Really, is it expected that we just assume "it's more deep and complex?" I mean that is horse poop.

 

The Oscar does not have to be political in the way we are discussing, unfortunately it is, and in the last 5 or 6 years it has gotten ridiculously so. Political in that the Academy really loves Clint Eastwood, well that is an entirely different type of Political decision. Unless there is a race of Clint Eastwoods out there. Maybe they can make flags.

 

Finally, I agree that all country's are different, but the States do not have racial problems, people have racial problems. The fact that the US has a bigger mix of people than any other country is the biggest issue. I would love to see what would happen if Mexico became the economic capital of the world, people from every country started to arrive and work and live on the same streets. Would Mexico then have racist problems than? No, but their would be a lot more people with racist problems for sure. I think for the amount of different people the US has, we do alright.

 

In the past immigrants used to want to be American. Now it seems the majority of immigrants want to make American Dollars, have American Success, attend American Awards Shows, and wave Mexican Flags.

 

Luke

[Delorme Jean-Marie]

hi

i find your posts verry inspired by navaro's work.

i haven't seen "pans labyrinth" yet but i'd love people from the forum who have seen the movie to talk about the lighting, the choices, the camera work, the colors, what made this film having an oscar for he's dop.

 

I loved the work on babel.

so what is your opinion on the colaboration work between navarro's and the director on pans ?

 

beside that the oscar for moricone was great it looked so important to this artist.

 

the panel of directors was verry impressive, we had the day before the french award "the cesars" and when i look at the differences of the winners with the oscars it reminds me i live in a small country.

"little miss sunshine" won the best foreign movie :)

[Pedro Millan]

Well, i agree with you.

There are racist people, and i am afraid you deal with it.

 

 

My favourite was Lubezki, I admire his work very much.

But i have to say that i am a big fan of all of the nominees, i feel that every one of them should receive the oscar.

Navarro certainly did a great job by telling the story that Del Toro wanted to tell, i think that was one of his great achievments shooting the film.

 

pedro.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

That is something which has always struck me about the US, this constant insistence on ethnicity and race. As a European this is very troubling, because very often this seems to turn into some sort of reverse-racism, something which I don't really feel is the case in Europe.

 

 

The main difference in America stems from our troubled recent history of course....

 

Many of our minorities (I feel at least) actually like being labeled, classified, marginalized, etc. Selma Hayek, while not being a citizen, loves, no revels, in the role of "minority". Always "the man" to struggle against. Always an excuse to pump her fist....Americas past racism has spawned new racism in the form of the formally opressed peoples children. These children are the "new racists". They are more inclined to "punish" the former opressor than to build a better future. Sad really....I think this where "reverse racism" stems in America, if I follow you at all. Very interesting. Of couse, as we all know, politics plays a crucial role in shaping this behaviour, but I feel like talking about that as much as I feel like talking about baby Jesus...

 

 

 

Most minorities, however, just want to get to a point where they are not mentioned as being a "black" so-and-so or a "latino" so-and-so. An American is an American is an American. Thats truely what MOST people feel, regardless of color, language, et al. Once the economic gap closes, we will see these fringe celebrities preaching to an empty auditorium...

 

Just my thoughts-Jonnie

[Juan Guajardo]

what's this? c'mon people were here for talk about cinematography so lets put this conversation on the right terms please

Edited February 27, 2007 by Juan Guajardo

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

er, ok...good point.

 

I have to say all the nominated are deserving, and even more who were not nominated. As long as the victors take it in stride, no harm...

[Guest Mike Andrade]

Thanks Juan. I actually forgot what forum I was on for a second while reading this mess.

[Jon Rosenbloom]

I don't know, my main memory of the photography in Pan's Labyrinth was of the very cliche shafts blue "daylight" coming in through the windows of the Captain's office. (It was one of the clips theey showed during the Oscar broadcast.) Were I voting, I would have cast for Cheevo, because he pulled off some shots in Children of Men that are amazing both technically, and photographically.

[Carlos Correa]

I do appreciate that, as I stated. That is an interesting perspective, and I am sure it is true on many levels. But I suppose I don't feel like an American institution like the Academy Awards has to be the campaigning ground for Mexican Filmmakers to prove a point to their homeland, even if that was and is their purest intention (which I doubt). Sure, I don't understand where you come from, but no other country has any idea what it is like to be the country that everyone comes to in order to "make it."

 

And I am not just addressing Mexican Filmmakers, I am addressing any agenda other than filmmaking having a presence at the Oscars. Even the political crap, like the jokes about Al Gore. I guess I always thought movies were about stories, creation, and escaping, but everything on the 5 o'clock news still gets dragged right back into the evening. We do it enough to ourselves, we don't need Latinos and other Foreigners joining in, making it a soccer match. Deal with your problems at home. Use a telephone. Don't wave a flag on TV. Is that too much to ask?

Well that sure as hell is what it seems like. Not a lot of Americans are thinking "This must be more deep and complex." Really, is it expected that we just assume "it's more deep and complex?" I mean that is horse poop.

 

The Oscar does not have to be political in the way we are discussing, unfortunately it is, and in the last 5 or 6 years it has gotten ridiculously so. Political in that the Academy really loves Clint Eastwood, well that is an entirely different type of Political decision. Unless there is a race of Clint Eastwoods out there. Maybe they can make flags.

 

Finally, I agree that all country's are different, but the States do not have racial problems, people have racial problems. The fact that the US has a bigger mix of people than any other country is the biggest issue. I would love to see what would happen if Mexico became the economic capital of the world, people from every country started to arrive and work and live on the same streets. Would Mexico then have racist problems than? No, but their would be a lot more people with racist problems for sure. I think for the amount of different people the US has, we do alright.

 

In the past immigrants used to want to be American. Now it seems the majority of immigrants want to make American Dollars, have American Success, attend American Awards Shows, and wave Mexican Flags.

 

Luke

 

 

I honestly think you have an issue with racism, but i really dont think this is the right forum for you to argue about how you dont want mexicans or other people with other flags in "your" country, maybe you can find some forum on social politics or a psychiatrist where you can deal with all your angriness against that horrible people from other countries that come with flags from other places. I think the name of the forum is cinematography.com, and i believe that´s what we should be talking about. And by the way, if mexicans are working in U.S.A. (because as far as i know america is a whole continent not a country) is because you americans are hiring us, for some reason i dont know which one, but you are.

 

P.S. Congratulations Navarro,