diatribe

[Andy O'Neil]

Lord of the Rings Trilogy:

 

It's one spectacular set after another, unmotivated from scene to scene. The first battle sequence in the beginning of the "Fellowship" was the best part.

 

The trilogy is drenched in PG-13. Aside from the first battle sequence, the action sequences are so restrained, so inhibited, I can't tell what's going on. See "The Bourne Supremacy."

 

It's a classic tale of good vs. evil. Nature vs. machines. This b+w tale of morals just feels insubstantiated. No guts. Just psalms. The villains are so villainous, no sympathetic characteristics. Plain bad, plain good.

 

The wraiths were a highlight, indeed. Very scary in "Fellowship," but by the final installment, the air is let out of the bag. The wraith is defeated with some stern, witty banter and a sword to the face, the dialogue resonates, "I am not a man! Ha Ha!"

 

I myself am trying to conceive an action movie, it's a genre I love, but it's so hard to make good. I think of "Black Hawk Down," "The Thin Red Line," "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," parts of "Leon." I like edge and terror and discomfort and pain. I like to see characters react to those pressures.

 

Movies like LOTR and "Die Hard" almost have it, but then there's the fat, doughnut eating cop who transcends his fears of shooting a weapon and saves the day. There's the happy marriage that makes everyone warm inside and better.

 

What makes a good action movie? It's not "We Were Soldiers" nor "Pearl Harbor."

 

This rant could go on for a while...

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I like action movies too, and not least because Richard Curtis would probably gouge out both his eyes before writing one! I like to watch Japanese stuff, recently saw "Sonatine." They tend to have more than half a second's thought put into them.

 

Phil

[Andy O'Neil]

Phil, I should check out Sonatine...

 

And what happened to Gladiator, the opening battle sequence in that - wow, it was great. Looking back at the DVD, I find myself chapter searching to the gladiator battles, tigers, etc. I yawn through the political commentary and the scenes in between.

 

Unbreakable - I loved this movie - minus Spencer Treat Clark (see Gladiator). Very subdued and right on. Some may criticize that Bruce Willis (David Dunn) just moped around the whole time, looking for someone to sing him a sad song. But I thought this film was heads and shoulders above any other superhero movies.

 

Aliens - totally different movie from Ridley's horror. Both equally awesome.

 

Predator - so much better than Die Hard, 13th Warrior, and, god, Basic...What's happened to you John M?

[Mike Panczenko]

Well, here's a counter-rant coming from a Tolkien buff ;)

 

Tolkien was a linguist, primarily, and enjoyed making his own languages. One language he created, he decided that if there was a language, then, naturally, there needed to be someone to speak it. So, he started the beginning of his mythology, with these early writings being found in the Silmarillion. Another thing that contributed to the creation of these stories was that Tolkien had always been unsatisfied with the lack of a British mythology. All other major European places had them, but Britian did not- even King Arthur has its original roots in France. So, this was another thing that drove him to create his stories. So, when you mention black and white characters, Tolkien was writing in the style of mythology. And, I agree about some overly shaky camera work- during Helm's Deep, I could see light, but not make out anything. So, I listened and watched a light show for 45 minutes :) But, I think Andrew Lesnie's cinematography was very good, overall. You can seem my post in the Cinematographers section. Alright, my rant is done. Thanks for your time :P

[David Mullen ASC]

My favorite action film is probably "The Road Warrior", unless I can count "Seven Samurai" as an action film. I'm also fond of "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

 

There are also the great Hong Kong action films like "The Killer" and "Hard Boiled". I like the period ones like "Legend of Fong Si Yuk" and "Wing Chun". One of my favorites is "Peking Opera Blues" but that is more of a caper comedy than an action film. As for action set pieces, the chariot race in "Ben Hur" still thrills me.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Andy, if I read you correctly

 

"I like edge and terror and discomfort and pain. I like to see characters react to those pressures."

 

Included in my favorites :

 

"Silence of the Lambs" is a movie that still gets the audience enraptured.

"Se7ven"

one you mentioned, "Black Hawk Down", without a doubt "The Excorcist", and the list goes on and on... but just reading your sentence brought this to my mind.

 

David, "Ben Hur". Classic. I am convinced that it can't ever be re-made. (It probably will, and it will either star Will Smith or Vin Diesel and flop bigger than Gigli).

 

Cheers,

 

C.

[Andy O'Neil]

Mpanc, I appreciate your opinions very much, don't hold back

 

David, "Road Warrior," I must agree is highly enjoyable, very edgy and menacing. A favorite of mine.

 

"Raiders of the Lost Ark," great.

 

"Seven Samurai"... I've seen it twice (6 years apart.) Great narrative structure, but still a tad patience-testing, I have to be honest. I appreciate Akira's film, I do, I recognize the goodness, I just can't help feeling an overbearing, primitiveness. 1954? Ironically, this most certainly may change over time. The characters are enjoyable, and I nod my head in delight with the ironic resolution.

 

Carlos, every film you named evokes the emotions i love. Never seen Ben Hur.

 

Exorcist is the epitome of terror. It feels like I'm recovering from a stomach virus after every viewing. Very effective. The Shining is similar in effect.

[Justan Zimmerman]

My problem with the Lord of the Ring films was that they all suffered from Sergio Leone disease ? that is, there were no small moments, just huge ones. Even the quiet, tender moments are imbued with the epic. In the case of the Lord of the Rings, I have a feeling this was a result of the way they were shot ? lots of different units shooting a whole lot of footage without being sure how it was all going to be put together in the end.

 

Still, I love ?Once Upon a Time in the West?. Does that count as an action film? I just can?t watch it all in one sitting.

 

?Excalibur? is probably my favorite action film. True, it?s a mish-mash of Arthurian legends (mainly from Malory) and some people I know consider it an incoherent mess (my wife especially), but I think it?s brilliant. John Boorman is one of my faves. DP Alex Thomson did some might fine work on it, too.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I think Heat is great with it's multiple character arcs.

 

Otherwise, I'm very much into 60's, 70's and early 80's cinema. For some

reason those films made then just seemes more intelligent, daring, and

cool.

 

What I sorely miss these days, is SUSPENSE. All directors think they know how

to do it, but very few actually do. Blowing things up, gunfights, fistfights,

car chases have got nothing to do with suspense. Or as Hitchcock said: "the

disarming of a bomb is suspenseful, the blowing up isn't".

 

Just bought Where Eagles Dare on DVD and that's suspenseful. Das Boot is suspense.

Thief (Michael Mann's debut) is suspense. The Day of the Jackal is probably one of

the most suspenseful movies ever made. Scarface is suspense. Three Days For Condor

is suspense. The Conversation is suspense. All The President's Men is suspense. The

Predator is madly suspenseful.

 

Honestly, when was the last time you bit your nails at a movie, shouting at the screen

to tell them to get out of there? Hasn't happened in years. Spielberg used to be good at

that, DePalma was great at it, Cameron was made for it. What happened?

 

Now, they keep redoing all these old heist movies, but for some reason they're never

suspenseful. Italian Job for instance (not that the original was very suspenseful), or the

Ladykillers.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Andy,

 

Make every effort this Labor Day weekend to rent Ben-Hur, actually, buy it.

 

See it. Twice.

 

It is the movies of the movies. Chartlon Heston and the chariot race is amazing. Amazing how they pulled that movie off in the 50's.

 

C.-

 

PS I actually met him. He has an awsome presence.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Yes, Ben-Hur is great. We always think that "our" generation invented good action

footage, which this film disproves.

[David Mullen ASC]

But what makes the chariot race great is that it actually comes at an important point in the story; the whole film up to that point has been about the relationship between Judah Ben-Hur and Masala and how they went from being childhood friends to mortal enemies, culminating in this chariot race.

 

In the best action movies, the action has some personal, emotional connection with the characters, which is why "Seven Samurai" or "Road Warrior" are so great and not merely empty set peices like so many modern action movies.

 

One of my favorite moments in movie action scenes is at the end of "The Wind and the Lion" when the young boy sees Sean Connery escape from his enemies in a big assault and while he is watching, Connery rides up to him and snatches the rifle from the boy's hands and rides off.

 

Another great heroic moment is when he rescues Candice Bergman single-handedly from a group of kidnappers.

 

It reminds me of another movie, "El Cid", which has two great action sequences: the famous jousting tournament sequence and the other scene where El Cid defeats a group of knights in order to free the king.

 

Again, it's all about the WRITING so that the action is not merely eye-candy. "El Cid", which is better in the first half, is initially about Sophia Loren's desire to revenge her father, who was killed by El Cid in a duel, even though she is in love with El Cid.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Speaking about the WRITING, I think that part of the reason I enjoy foreign movies so much is that most foreign movies don't have the Hollywood budget and Hollywood producer's egos. Because of such budgetary concerns and not big name stars attached, most often, they spend time on character development and good writing and come up with clever situations to tell a story without the big Hollywood shoot them up / music video glaring / blow them up filler to make it past the 60 minute mark.

 

I saw "City of God" days ago and I thought it was very good movie, it had all the elements of a good film, I also saw "Rabbit Proof Fence" not long ago and it was pretty good, based on a true story, as well as several Japanese Anime, too bad I don't remember their name.

 

Aside from foreign movies, writing on independant films are amazing as well. "American Splendor", "Lost in Translation", and "Girl with a Pearl Earing", were some amazing movies that had good writing, good character development and that I really enjoyed a lot.

 

C.-

 

PSS: Speaking of Ben Hur, I was inspired by this thread to watch it again. Well, to be honest with you, I skipped to the Chariot Race. I would give anything to see the entire movie on a silver screen. Even a widescreen tv does not do justice.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Tak Miyagishima of Panavision often projects the 70mm reel of the chariot race from "Ben Hur" for visitors. It's in the original "MGM Camera 65", Ultra Panavision format (1.25X squeeze, 2.76:1 aspect ratio. Wow! The "Splendor of 70mm":

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...ytlak/70mm1.pdf

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...ytlak/70mm2.pdf

 

 

 

Images from Marty Hart's "American Widescreen Museum" (original Copyright MGM Pictures):

 

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingup3.htm

[Max Jacoby]

I myself am trying to conceive an action movie, it's a genre I love, but it's so hard to make good. I think of "Black Hawk Down," "The Thin Red Line," "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," parts of "Leon."

I would not consider 'The Thin Red Line' an action film. I think it is about as far from an action film as you can possibly get

[Andy O'Neil]

"...["The Thin Red Line"] is about as far from an action film as you can possibly get." - audiris

 

audiris, I listed "Thin Red Line" as an example of a movie that evoked emotions that I like. I agree, TRL couldn't be further from "The Rock," but I can think of other films further from action.

[Andy O'Neil]

For those interested, I want to get back to Lord of the Rings. What do people really think about Jackson's film, not J.R.R.? Forget if you can that it is an adaptation.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I have a bit of a block when it comes to fantasy generally - you get all this pseudo-medieval stuff which you know didn't happen during the period they're kind of sort of portraying, and it doesn't work for me. Anyway, that notwithstanding, I thought it was very uninspired and by-the-numbers. Certainly very underwhelming considering the source material and the amount of money he had - to produce something merely quite good with those materials is inexcusable. I saw the first one - projected it actually - and felt no need to pursue the sequels.

 

Phil

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I haven't read the books, so for me they were nice escapist movies told well. I'm a bit sick of the phenomenon now since there was some overload there for a while - but I can't fault the movies except on some effects choices at times.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Andy,

 

Getting back to LOTR. Here is what I think,

 

a) Funny how Miramax passed on the movie to New Line Cinema. My understanding is that Miramax receives a % of the movies.

b ) Hollywood is finally recognizing that you can save a bundle if you shoot there parts or two parts of it at once. How much of it is true, don't really know since I am no Hollywood accountant, but I can't fanthom not saving any money if shooting all three movies separately.

c) Kudos to Peter Jackson for keeping the entire mamooth project going. It must have been tough and for keeping his girth under paramount pressure. I can't imaging being under such pressure. (Would trade anything for it though :-)

d) Kudos to Weta Digital and Weta whatever corp. The Weta X guys went above and beyond to build the sets, props, etc... to make JRT's world come to life.

e) Kudos to John Seale. With an armada of 2nd units, and locations and three movies, he also kept cool under such pressure. Remember that they shot stuff for the third film while filming for the first and how that all tied together at the end is amazing. At least to me it is.

f) Kudos to their Line Producers/Project Managers. Amazing job.

 

But none of this could have happened had Peter Jackson not been the bastion for making this film come true. I think that anyone that could put a project like this off the ground and make it happen will have a place in the Pantheom of Directors in the future. Even if any new movies he makes flops, I think that he will have a place there. He held his vision, and his passion and made a remarkable trilogy.

 

And, other than the films, the technology learned from Weta Digital is now being applied to other movies and fast becoming a de facto standard in digital imaging technology. Example, Gollums skin texture, which works derives from Pat Haranhan's SubSurface Light Transport, which won a Technical Oscar this year, the crowd battle scenes, the arials camera sequences in the battle scenes and the independent movement applied to each body is remarkable.

 

C.

[Andy O'Neil]

Interesting things.

 

I had dismissed J. R. R. from the topic before, but my dissatisfaction for the films really must have its roots in the story.

[DanStewart]

Yes, the execution is absolutely superhuman. But I also have problems with the scripts. However, I'm from Oxford and I know a LOT of childhood fans (though I never read them) and they ALL think the films are fantastic - so PJ must have done something right.

If Orcs and wizards aren't your thing it's a little unfair to blame the film for failing to entertain you!

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

If you ask me LOTR had too much dramatics. The smallest, insignificant scene is blown up to a huge scale using slow spoken dialogue and dramatic camera effects.

 

You can tell Jackson had a lot of love for the story and he really wanted to make a film to make others think/feel the same way about it. Trouble is, not everyone felt the same way about it. Some people were sucked in and really moved by the slow and dramatic ending, whereas some people were sat there wondering when the bloody thing was going to end. Obviously those people either weren't concentrating on the film or they just don?t think the same way as Jackson.

 

Kinda like marmite in a way, either you like it or you don?t.

 

(Personally I think it sucked, but I do like marmite...)

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Oh and, what's PG-13? Somekind of processing chemical?

[Andy O'Neil]

"...What's PG-13? Some kind of processing chemical?" - ashleysmithd

 

I'm not sure if you're kidding. I said that Peter Jackson's LOTR was 'drenched in PG-13.' I was referring to Parental Guidance 13, the MPAA rating.