Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Just say I shot a film with the XL1s, but then I transferred the tape into a crapy domestic MiniDV camera and tried exporting the movie from the camera to the computer via firewire. Would the pixel count be the same even though I'm playing it on something that doesn't even record at that rate? And would it matter if the footage was progressive/interlaced? Thanks, Dan. P.S I'm always referring to PAL, if it makes any difference to my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 10, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted September 10, 2004 Hi, The XL1s is a miniDV camera. If you're exporting it from a miniDV camera... what's the issue? I think what you're asking is "If I shoot something on a really great camera, then play it back on a crappy one, will I lose anything." Unless there's anything badly wrong with the crappy camera's VTR, the answer's no. The camera section doesn't come into it; it's just acting as a tape deck, and it doesn't have any involvement in what's on the tape. Just think about where the word "camcorder" comes from - it's a camera with a recorder superglued on the back of it. Early cameras didn't have recorders - and the recorder is just a tape deck. Having said all this there are some tape decks (both attached to cameras and not) which are just crappy, and tend to drop out all the time. However this is nothing to do with what kind of camera the material was shot on - it's just a malfunctioning deck. An aside: As it happens the PAL/NTSC thing is interesting on miniDV cameras, because the tape handling section of the recorder is exactly the same. Ordinarily, most video tape formats do one or two (or, ages ago, four) scans of the tape per frame (or field), meaning that if you have 50 scans per second happening with PAL, you'll get 60 with NTSC and the tapes run faster. DV and DVCAM don't work that way; there's five scans of the tape head in PAL, and four in NTSC. The data space works out because of the smaller NTSC frame, and it means that most of the VTR hardware, which is the complicated-to-make, expensive bit, is exactly the same. This allows PAL gear to take advantage of the economies of scale available to NTSC gear, but it also means that many DV devices will play back tapes recorded in the other format. When I say "play back," you don't usually get a picture out of the composite or Y/C outputs, since the camera's image decoders are format specific - but there are instances of PAL devices which will give you good NTSC DV-over-firewire output for capture to a computer, which of course can usually be switched at the touch of a button. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos M. Icaza Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Dan, Funny you mention that. I have shot most of my work on an XL-1, and whenever I capture footage into my computer, I capture it from a ("domestic") ZR-20, also from Canon. I have done that for most of the footage I have shot and never had a single problem. But of course, it all has been NTSC, and I beleive that it should be the same with PAL. Cheers, C.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 But Phil, isn't there possibly an issue of one camera(or deck) using better components than others? Just because the format is the same, doesn't mean that if brandX is using the cheapest DA converters money can buy, for instance, (and all the other parts!) that you're giong to end up with an identical quality picture, right? I go through this all the time with audio gear with essentially the same specs, yet the gear with the higher quality parts sounds noticeably better, and it's no mystery either. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 10, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted September 10, 2004 Hi, Yes, everything you say is absolutely true - but the question was about firewire capture, which is a situation where for once all things should be equal. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos M. Icaza Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I second Phil and I agree with you Dan. But firewire is firewire and the data has already been captured into the tape. you are just adquiring it. Cheers, C.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Why not just use the XL1 to transfer it to the computer? They have firewire. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted September 11, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted September 11, 2004 All you need to do is use the firewire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvin Pingol Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Why not just use the XL1 to transfer it to the computer? They have firewire. :unsure: This may not be Dan's case, but one logical reason this question could pop up is if someone is renting a high-end MiniDV camera and already owns a consumer one. This way, all days spent with the higher end camera can be used for shooting, and capturing can be done at a later date with another camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well thanks guys, yeh I didn't think it would be a problem transferring it. It's just that soon I'm shooting a short, the DP David Beaumont has an XL1s, but it's not going to be practical to take the camera all the way to my place to transfer it. (Being that I'm the editor on this one) But I didn?t want to take any risks, just taking the film. Oh and, I didn't really want to create a whole new board for this but I'm still a bit unclear on colour temperatures. When shooting indoor shots I am using Kodak 100t for 3200k but, is there a chart or something that gives you a rough guide as to what film is needed? I imagine 6400k is the outdoor standard, but you might want to vary it for different environments. And, how does the colour temperature (Kelvin) scale relate to digital? Is it even an issue with digital CCD's? (Cos I don't fancy replacing the CCD's.... :blink: ) Thanks, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 12, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted September 12, 2004 Hi, > And, how does the colour temperature (Kelvin) scale relate to digital? Is it even > an issue with digital CCD's Yes, that's what white balance is for. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Oh right ok. Another thing, I noticed people are using tungsten film for outdoor portrait shots... Why the hell use tungsten? What effect are they creating? <_< I know for certain that daylight doesn't go well indoors, maybe it's ok when doing it the other way round.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvin Pingol Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Another thing, I noticed people are using tungsten film for outdoor portrait shots...Why the hell use tungsten? What effect are they creating? I would've thought it'd be the other way around... If shooting uncorrected, I doubt timing out the excessive blue due to the increased sensitivity in the blue layer would result in a more pleasing image (portraits are supposed to be warm, after all)... Maybe a CT filter is being used in place of what would normally be an ND, had proper film been used... but that wouldn't really achieve anything... Gah, what are they creating? :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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