A couple more loader questions....

Luc Allein · June 27, 2007

When you're filling out your film inventory sheet, say you have your camera report and you're filling in the information. In this example, say you had a 400 foot roll. They shot 300 feet, thus giving you a 100' short end. (I know on real shows anything less than 150' is waste, Im just being theoretical here)

When you fill in the "totals" column, is the total 400', or is it 300'? Like you have the "Good", "N/G", "Waste" "Total" and "Short End" totals on the report. Is the final total going to be 400, because that's what you started with, or 300 because that's what you actually shot and that's what is going to the lab?

I loaded again over the weekend, and I'm having a helluva time getting my numbers to add up. I keep messing up either filling out the camera reports and/or filling out the film inventory sheets and getting my totals for the day to add up correctly or get an accurate count. It's really driving me nuts and I cant figure out what the hell I'm doing wrong. I took out David Elkins' book from the library, but I dont own it yet. Is there a section that covers this in any kind of detail in there? And if not, does anyone know someplace that has it broken down specifically? :blink:

-Also a few more questions: (Sorry)

These are more "set etiquette" type questions. These are questions of looking and or acting professionally as a loader. Im lucky in that I have a big in with an A list camera crew that lets me PA and load for them all the time, so I have a lot of leeway with them but I'm starting to get out more with other professional crews and I want to look, well, professional.

-How much is the loader responsible for mags near the the cameras? Is that a loader job to have back up mags near every camera, or is it the 2nd's? I know the loader is responsible for having enough mags, but is it also their job to always have one near the cameras, even when they move?

-And furthermore, how much is a loader expected on set? Or does it depend on the general attitude of the crew? I only ask because I'm new, it takes me a little longer to flip and load mags so I spend most of my time in the dark room or on the truck and it gets me wondering if they're wondering: "Where the hell is this guy?" Is it common that the loader isnt around that much?

-One more thing, who is the best person to go to in order to find out how the camera reports will get labeled for the lab? For example I worked this weekend and the instructions were "Process normal, prep for telecine". But something I did a few weeks ago, it had to be timed to color charts on roll # x or whatever. Do you ask the 1st AC or the DP at the beginning of the day? (Esp if its the first day of shooting) I only ask because I dont want to ask the wrong person or bother someone that shouldnt be bothered with it and look like even more of a neophyte than I already am. Usually I ask the 1st AC.

Also any tips anyone has to get mags in and out faster are greatly appreciated. I know you can prep cans by filling out the reports and that ahead of time, but I need to learn how to get mags turned over and back out the door quicker for when the really crazy crunch times hit. So far I've been lucky and havent held up any sets, but it's been close a few times. I def dont want that.

If you actually read all this, and furthermore if you actually respond to it, I really appreciate it. You guys rock. I love this board.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Luc Allein

Mike Panczenko · June 27, 2007

Well, on most of the inventory sheets I use- the total column that you're referring to would include everything but the shortends essentially. All used film would go there, including NG and waste (even though the wasted film wasn't really used, it can't be used in the future). The shortends would not be included in that column. So, say you had a 1000' roll, where 680' were good, 120' was NG, and shortended the 200', the total would be 800'. If you had a 1000' roll where 800' was good, 120' was NG, and 80' was waste, the total would be 1000'. Inventory sheets can be different depending on the preferences of the person who made them, and while the "total" issue is pretty standard, it's a good idea to play around and plug some numbers into the new sheet beforehand and see how they relate. That's the best way to understand how the particular one you're using is laid out.

As for etiquette,

The loader's primary job is to load the film and do the paperwork. But most crews also expect that he will have time to be on set and help out. When they are on set, they basically fill in the role of an additional 2nd, while also making sure not to step on the toes or appear to be attempting to take over the job of the actual 2nd. Organizing carts is a biggie. It's also very dependent on who your camera crew is and what they expect you to do. As far as keeping mags near the camera- the loader should get the film from the loading area to set, and it would be a nice gesture to make sure that mags are always near the camera instead of on the carts (which shouldn't be too far away either), but it is really the 2nd's job. The only surefire answer though, is to feel it out depending on who you're working with. Different crews have different styles and expectations of what they want and don't want. Making sure mags are near the cameras will most often be seen as positive thing though, even if it falls more under the 2nd's role. If you can help do something and it's not overstepping your bounds or complicating things, then you should always do it. Working together as a team is important.

When it comes to instructions for the lab, especially on the first day, I usually ask the first and the DP. I confer with the 1st first, though, because some like to be the channel for the camera crew through the DP, and if he wants to, he will ask them for me. If not though, I ask both, to confirm that I got the right answer. Make sure they match up though! Some people will say just to ask the DP though. It's a matter of personal comfort.

Take care,

Mike Panczenko

Chris Keth · June 27, 2007

On a film inventory with a short ends column, the sum of all of the columns should add up to the amount of film loaded into cameras. If I have mags at the end of a day that are loaded but haven't been used at all, I count those as full factory loads (or short ends if they're loaded with short ends, recans if...)

As far as being on set, do it when you can. I've loaded some days where we did lots of high speed where I never left the truck all day except to trade loaded mags for shot mags. I've also spent days as an additional second because we only shot a few mags.

Simon Miya · June 27, 2007

I second everything that Mike said, and want to re-emphasize something he said throughout: it depends. It depends who you are working with as far as what they expect, it depends what inventory sheets you are using (I've seen the totals done different ways on different sheets, but it is usually the way Mike said), many things in this business depend on other factors. One of the most important things as you are getting started in the camera department is to stay flexible and think on your feet.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Simon Miya

David Regan · June 28, 2007

Well, on most of the inventory sheets I use- the total column that you're referring to would include everything but the shortends essentially. All used film would go there, including NG and waste (even though the wasted film wasn't really used, it can't be used in the future). The shortends would not be included in that column. So, say you had a 1000' roll, where 680' were good, 120' was NG, and shortended the 200', the total would be 800'. If you had a 1000' roll where 800' was good, 120' was NG, and 80' was waste, the total would be 1000'.

(A question this brings up for me), what qualifies/how do you get NG film? I understand if a whole role was no good due to a scratch or dirty gate etc...but how do you get, and know what is NG. I mean if you shoot 680' of a 1000' roll shouldn't you have about a 320' shortend? Where does the NG come from, except of course from the tail ends and what was exposed outside of the mag when you took the mag off. But that should only be a couple feet. I'm just curious how you get good exposed film, no good film, and useable shortends all on one roll.

Thanks

Mike Panczenko · June 28, 2007

It really only applies when you print only circled takes. You add up the lengths of the circled takes to get the "good" takes. The takes that are not circled then are added to get your NG totals. If you print everything, then your whole roll can be considered "good." Of course, the script supervisor will still have their nots of which takes were good or not good, but as far as camera reports go, if you're printing everything, the whole roll can be considered good.