for a black an white result?

[Delorme Jean-Marie]

what technique would you recomand for a B/W effect?

- post prod way or

- Desat color by color on the matrix?

or an other sollution i didn't thought about.

it's for a drama, the film is mostly in color but some parts are B/W

thank you to share you experiences

[Robert Sanders]

what technique would you recomand for a B/W effect?

- post prod way or

- Desat color by color on the matrix?

or an other sollution i didn't thought about.

it's for a drama, the film is mostly in color but some parts are B/W

thank you to share you experiences

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would definitely do this in post. As I'm sure you're already aware creating a representation of B&W from color photography is more than just desaturating the image. Dialing in the contrast is very important. Personally, I would prefer the option of dialiing in these values carefully, in front of a calibrated monitor, rather than doing it on set.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

There is a minor issue around compression. By all means shoot as much dynamic range as you can and make those decisions later, but if you take the colour out in the matrix, the compression codec will be free to use all the data space to compress the Y channel, potentially improving quality.

 

This is likely to be a pretty marginal improvement, though.

 

Phil

[Mark Allen]

When doing it in post.... Many people use the green channel as greyscale to create their black and white images. It's commonly recommended - something to experiment with. Or - you can do it with HSL and Level controls by eye to taste.

 

I can't speak to whether to do it in post or in camera though - out of my knowledge range.

[Delorme Jean-Marie]

thanks

i removed the colors thru a mcbeth chart in a light box with the vector scope and stored it to a file, it took me several hours.

so i have 2 preset with and without colors, post prod guy told me the best way was thru post prod but it's because it's his knowledge?

i apriciate your remarks

[Michael Nash]

I'd be inclined to shoot "normal" color and do the desaturation in post. The more information you have on tape the more control you'll have over the image in post. The exception might be the compression issue that Phil mentioned.

 

Whenever I've done B&W on SD video I've done it in post, and simply turned down the chroma on the monitor to view while shooting. Then in post you can mess with independent color channels for the most flexible control of contrast.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

What he said. The ability to pick channels you like probably outweighs my theoretical compression concern.

 

Phil

[Elhanan Matos]

what technique would you recomand for a B/W effect?

- post prod way or

- Desat color by color on the matrix?

 

I think this all matters on how confident you are. If you know what look you need and you know how to create it successfully then go ahead and do it in camera, it will save you more time and more money in post. If you arent sure what look you want for your scene and your not comfortable with the color matrix in the camera, then do it in post.

 

i removed the colors thru a mcbeth chart in a light box with the vector scope and stored it to a file, it took me several hours.

 

EEK! Several hours!?!?! If your using an F900 with the /3 upgrade then there is a page within the paint menus called "Saturation" if you set saturation to 99 then you will have a black and white image. This is the easiest way of desaturating an image.

 

The other way (and my favorite way) of desaturating the image is by using the User and Multi matrix pages. First make sure you have a color chart and a vectorscope. Now go to the Multi-Matrix page. Set the saturation of each phase to -99.

 

Now comes the tough part (if you don't know how to read a vectorscope then it might be very very tough), go to the User-Matrix, and look at your vectorscope, you should see dots all around your vectorscope each dot represents one of the colors on the color chart. Now start adjusting the values in the matrix, you should see the dots moving around, what you need to try and do is move all the dots to the center of your scope without inverting the dots or lines. This might take some time.

 

The advantage of using the Matrices instead of the Saturation page is that you have a whole lot more control, once you have desaturated the image in the User-Matrix you can go back to the Multi-Matrix and start adding a single color back in.

 

One neat trick is to make the entire image black and white except for skin tones. You do this by desaturating the image with the Matrices and then going back to the Multi-Matrix and setting the Saturation of phase 135 to about 30.

 

Good luck, have some fun with the paint menus, they are very powerful tools and its a shame to let them just sit there unused!

[Mike Brennan]

Having done aseries years ago in black and white I would offer the following advice.

 

If you are 101% sure that you will go b&w then dial out saturation in post, as Phil suggests it may pay a (very small) dividend

 

The wonderful thing that happens when shooting on ccds for bw display is that the tell-tale loss of colour in highlights does not exist. A bleached out skin tone in colour simply becomes a high key effect.

So high key lighting becomes very controllable (with a well setup monitor).

Contrast range of ccd not an issue!

 

Explore the effect that grads have. Again, without the give-away of saturation change you will be able to be very agressive with grads. The benifit of a HD monitor will enable you to see exactly what you are doing.

Forget about major mood changes via grading.

 

The power of HD monitor will enable you to orchestrate grads lighting and gamma settings to shape the framing, mood and create the look you want on location.

 

 

Mike Brennan