Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi, We all know that the faster the film, the more grain. What other aspects affect the film grain?? I've seen people mention the way it's developed e.t.c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2004 Underexposure, push-processing will increase grain. Overexposure, pull-processing will reduce grain. Low contrast images with lots of midtones will make the grain more visible. Therefore scenes shot with smoke, diffusion, flashing, etc. will tend to bring out the grain structure. Film stock aging (causing loss of speed and increased base fog levels) will increase graininess. Duplication of film through multiple generations will increase graininess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ok cool, thanks David. May I just ask, what's the difference between a push and pull process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted October 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2004 Pushing means you overdevelop the film, which increases contrast and makes the colors warmer. Pulling means underdeveloping the film, which reduces contrast and makes the colors shift colder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ok cool, thanks David. May I just ask, what's the difference between a push and pull process? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Push/Pull Processing: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/...4.11.4.16&lc=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Stiegemeier Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If you have film in your fridge, how long until there will be a noticable aging to the stock/grain/look/etc.? weeks/months/years? (particularly 5218 and 5217) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2004 If you have film in your fridge, how long until there will be a noticable aging to the stock/grain/look/etc.? weeks/months/years? (particularly 5218 and 5217) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Refrigeration greatly slows the chemical changes in the film structure as it ages. But ambient radiation like cosmic rays does cause a slow buildup of fog and grain, especially for the faster films. For an EI 500 film, refrigerated film has a shelf life of about two years with negligible change. Beyond that, you should do a clip test with your lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Ok thanks guys :) (Man the Kodak web site has an answer to everything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Williamson Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Pushing means you overdevelop the film, which increases contrast and makes the colors warmer.Pulling means underdeveloping the film, which reduces contrast and makes the colors shift colder. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In terms of color, I've heard that pushing increases saturation while pulling lowers saturation, however, I've never heard anyone talk about a cool/warm shift as being an effect of push/pull processing. I know you're working with some excellent DP's, Max, is this wisdom passed down from one of them? Anyone else familiar with this? I do recall reading an interview on the Fuji website with Emmanuel Lubeszki, ASC talking about how one stop push processing on F-500T yielded a "subtle visual color effect" for some scenes in "Ali" (http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/MPBehindTheScenesDetail.jsp?dbid=MP_BEHIND_SCENES_508122), sounds like he's describing a shift in the color palette... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted October 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 20, 2004 One thing I would always advise is to be on guard for old expired film. If you're going to store film you also need to refrigerate it to preserve it. You can take it out of refrigeration and give it enough time to warm up be- fore you use it. Of course immediate use of film purchased does not apply although you might want to keep it in a cooler if its a terribly hot day. Rep- utable people will not sell you expired film. Greg Gross,Professional Photographer Student Cinematographer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted October 20, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 20, 2004 Just to clarify pushing and pulling,for anyone who is confused. Keep in mind also that what I'm going to say does not include sophiscated auto- mated equipment used to process movie film. Follow me: 1-roll of Kodak b&w film to be developed in darkroom. I place it in the develop tank and start the darkroom timer(I'm pushing so I have increased the time on the timer). The period of time for development will be longer. 1-roll of b&w Kodak film to be developed. I place it in the develop tank and start the darkroom timer (I'm pulling or underdeveloping the film so I set less time on the timer). The per- iod of time for development will be less. Here's where it gets sticky guys, what is the normal development time for the film to develop? Kodak may say on their spec sheet that you should develop the film normally for 7 minutes, they are not wrong. But what is normal for you? What kind of negative do you want to print? I may have found that for me my desired negative is achieved with 6 minutes and 30 sec. of development time. So pushing and pulling for me will deviate from 6 minutes 30 sec. development time. It is very important to communicate to your lab people what you want. You may not get the look you want. What is standard development time for your lab? If you know your stuff you may not want that time. Development is a continuing process until developer is removed from film and development is chemically stopped. This may be reason if you have varied results. Greg Gross,Professional Photographer/Student Cinematographer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted October 22, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2004 In terms of color, I've heard that pushing increases saturation while pulling lowers saturation, however, I've never heard anyone talk about a cool/warm shift as being an effect of push/pull processing. I know you're working with some excellent DP's, Max, is this wisdom passed down from one of them? Anyone else familiar with this? I got that info from a Kodak lecture, where they screend prints and also showed the graphs of push/pull. I have never really worked with a Dop who pushed or pulled the filmstock regularly. The only times when I've seen it done is to gain an extra stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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