5D Mark II

[Anatole Sloan]

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but I only saw something about the D90; the 5D Mark II has come out, also with a video mode; but with a few major differences to the D90:

-1080p

-h.264 encoding, around 40mbit/s

-Supposedly, barely any rolling shutter artefacts (D90 has a big problem with this)

-Audio input (admittedly not XLR, but better than nothing)

-Contrast Detection AF

Seems quite interesting; the people that have played around with it have been very impressed (some affiliated with Canon, others not), and the footage is meant to be near noiseless, even at ISO3200. What is most impressive is the compression - it should be better quality than the 25mbit/s Mpeg2 HDV codec.

[Scott Fritzshall]

I guess I feel compelled to point out that h.264 is very much a delivery format that's not at all well-suited to production, though that hasn't stopped people before.

 

Also being noiseless is probably related to the compression, since h.264 throws out fine detail in order to squish the image down, which ends up having a de-noising effect.

[Anatole Sloan]

I guess I feel compelled to point out that h.264 is very much a delivery format that's not at all well-suited to production, though that hasn't stopped people before.

 

Also being noiseless is probably related to the compression, since h.264 throws out fine detail in order to squish the image down, which ends up having a de-noising effect.

 

I'm afraid I don't know a huge amount about compression, but will it still be the case at 40mbit/s? It's a very high bitrate (the bitrate used in bluray discs), and therefore shouldn't have much compression at all. I think that generally, h.264 codecs use a lower bitrate than their mpeg2 counterparts. For example, the Canon HG10, although a consumer camcorder, records 1080p with h.264 at 15mbit/s, yet maintains a very high level of detail, although less than the HV20.

 

Concerning noise, it's very likely that this is a feature of the Digic IV processor itself; the original sensor is 21.1mp, and can go up to ISO 25,600; when scaled down to 2.1mp (HD 1080p), a photo at around ISO 3200 would seam to have very little noise, considering that it is combining over 8 pixels to form a single pixel. Furthermore, this should create a very sharp image.

 

Regards,

Anatole

Edited September 21, 2008 by Anatole Sloan

[Mike Simpson]

It was really only a matter of time before still cameras started functioning as video cameras. I think its mostly marketed towards journalists to capture something on the fly, but I could see the 5D being a legitimate low end video camera for at least certain types of projects.

 

I think its safe to say the shutter and the AF/focus options would be the real deciding factors on if this camera can function in filmmaking. Motion seems like it could cause problems if there really is a a rolling shutter issue (but they seem to have taken that feedback from the D90) and I wonder how the camera would respond to motion, both within the frame and the camera itself, but I'm more interested in how it could handle focusing.

 

I assume that (by listening to them; I have no real basis for this), the motors in the lens are designed for quick snappy focusing, not so much slow and/or smooth focusing. Maybe that bluetooth follow focus thats been in development would solve the focus issues though.

 

Its definitely something to keep an eye on. Even if it doesnt work so well for filmmaking its still an amazing dslr and im pretty sure im gonna buy one.

[Patrick Neary]

Vincent Laforet's enthusiastic review only mentions 30fps, and Canon's own specs don't mention any frame rates at all. Is the camera able to shoot anything other than 30?

[Christopher Arata]

Nope only 30fps read this post, http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/09/dear-c...24p-please.html to see what some are trying to do to change that, although it is highly unlikely canon will change anything.

[Patrick Neary]

Dang, looks like everyone will have to wait until Canon releases another completely new line of DSLRs, which could be as long as three or four days from now...:)

[Tom Lowe]

Could the H264 be easily transcoded to JPEG2000 or Cineform or something else for editing?

 

My main question is, how is the down-sampling being accomplished? Is this a true 1080p that will hold up, pixel for pixel?

[Anatole Sloan]

The 1080p comes from the entire frame, and is down-sampled to the hd signal; however, some are saying that the image doesn't look hugely sharp. Once it starts shipping, we'll have a better idea.

 

Concerning AF, it doesn't use the same AF as when taking photos - the mirror needs to be in place for this. Instead it uses contrast detection, and while it is better than nothing, it's quite slow. Rolling shutter is meant to be a near non-issue, and otherwise the only major bug is 30p, as opposed to 24p. I personally wouldn't care that much, but some do have gripes about it... if the reaction against this is big enough, I'm sure Canon will release a firmware update to allow 24p.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Anatole Sloan

[Tom Lowe]

The 1080p comes from the entire frame, and is down-sampled to the hd signal; however, some are saying that the image doesn't look hugely sharp. Once it starts shipping, we'll have a better idea.

 

Does anyone actually know what type of process is being used to downsample the images?

 

In theory, this could create beautiful 1080p images, downsampling from such a huge sensor.

 

I also wonder if a 1080p 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 feed could be pulled off the HDMI port?

[Anatole Sloan]

Does anyone actually know what type of process is being used to downsample the images?

 

In theory, this could create beautiful 1080p images, downsampling from such a huge sensor.

 

I also wonder if a 1080p 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 feed could be pulled off the HDMI port?

 

We can dream...

 

I'm afraid that Canon may have too much to lose if they produce a killer video product in the form of a still camera - sales of their video cameras will fall, perhaps quite dramatically. Much of what they're doing is just to one-up the D90 (resolution, skew, mic input, ability to take photos at the same time as recording). Pulling the feed off the HDMI port as you describe would mean that people would have little reason to get a Canon HD camera instead, other than for the ergonomics and better controls (people will figure out some form of rifle holder, almost certainly, and audio is better recorded off camera anyway). It does have an HDMI port, but they'll probably cripple that particular function.

[Anatole Sloan]

I got this off http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=289323

 

The site is controversial, I know, but this is of particular interest (regarding whether you can pull uncompressed HD off the HDMI port)

 

"I've already seen this demonstrated with the 5D mark 2. That will at least give you 4:2:2 8-bit uncompressed, a little better than 4:2:0 AVC."

 

I guess I was wrong.

[Tom Lowe]

I'm posting on that same thread at Reduser and I have yet to see anyone give any evidence of whether a high-quality 1080p feed can be pulled from the HDMI port, or not. I would be awesome, though. Of course, then you would need to always have it tethered to some kind of external drive, perhaps recording to Cineform? But it might be worth it in some cases.

 

What do you guys think about the quality of the 1080p samples posted at DPReview (at the bottom of the page)?

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp

[Christopher Arata]

Here it is everyone the first short film from the 5D Mark II pre-production model that Vincent Laforet was able to test out. Link to his blog http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/ & to canon site http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?ac...;articleID=2086 . Enjoy!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Christopher Arata

[Phil Rhodes]

I'm afraid I don't know a huge amount about compression, but will it still be the case at 40mbit/s? It's a very high bitrate

 

Ah, no, that's a very low bitrate, the same as DVCPRO-HD uses at 24fps.

 

h.264 is very considerably cleverer than DV100, though.

 

P

[Chi Ying Chan]

Still looks very video.

 

Chan Chi Ying

HK

[Mike Simpson]

I think it looks pretty good. Im most impressed with the light sensitivity i suppose.

[Sam Wells]

Could the H264 be easily transcoded to JPEG2000 or Cineform or something else for editing?

 

I guess, (and you could use use ProRes also) -

 

But it's backwards ! Cineform, MJPEG2000, type codec is what the _camera_ should be using !

 

 

-Sam (I downsample my Nikon RAW converted to TIFF in Shake and output ProResHQ)

[Mitch Lusas]

A quick rabbit trail:

Has anyone used a good portable solution for capturing HDMI?

[Tom Lowe]

haven't used it yet, but Cineform Recorder looks like a good bet.

[Mitch Lusas]

Thanks. The Cineform Recorder looks amazing with a unbelievably great price. Can't wait for the release.

 

Oh, and per the discussion concerning the video, I just downloaded a full resolution video from dpreview at http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp and viewed the files from Vincent's site. They almost seem to be shot with two different cameras. The one directly from Canon (via dpreview) is very laggy and noisey; while Vincent's is crisp and smooth. While the cinematography is much better with Vincent's, the quality of the capture itself seems to be the problem. Is it possible that the dpreview files are from an earlier release and Vincent's is from a more recent version of the 5d Mark II?

 

As a Nikon dSLR user, I was holding my breath for the 5d Mark II, but now that seems to be turning into a sigh.

[Chi Ying Chan]

When they removed my post,i know they'll do anything to protect this new camera.

 

regards

Chan Chi Ying

DP HK

[Saul Rodgar]

When they removed my post,i know they'll do anything to protect this new camera.

 

regards

Chan Chi Ying

DP HK

 

That is right buddy, it is all a big conspiracy to protect Canon, and against you to boot. Like I said on my CML response to your "The Canon 5D footage is very very video looking" post: What it was supposed to look like? Film? Film is film and video is video. Two different ways to create motion pictures, each with cons and pros.

 

Will people ever stop trying to make HD the new film, or putting it down because it doesn't live up to their expectations? Choose one or the other for their respective qualities but please just stop making silly remarks that only polarize the discourse.

 

If you choose to make completely out-of-place and superficial comments, then your posts may get deleted.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Saul Rodgar

[Chi Ying Chan]

2006 i've shoot a feature in Sony 950,first time shooting in digital,really enjoy and love the digital imaging!After that,everytime i have a project,i always talk with the directors and producers,trying to shoot in digital,from 950,f23 to Red.

And i'm a 5D owner,like it very much.

Just trying to point out the bad video look of that clip,so don't try to compare it with other pro video cameras,thats it.

If they can't afford OTHER voices,then the blog have no meaning at all,thats why i love CML,different voice,good or bad,right or wrong,under Geoff's rules,ur post won't get removed!

 

Regards

Chan Chi Ying

DP HK

[Christopher Arata]

so don't try to compare it with other pro video cameras,thats it.

 

Regards

Chan Chi Ying

DP HK

 

Just to be clear, & this is not just directed at you, but know one is trying to do that or say that. I have heard that before way to many times, its annoying!