Int/Ext Shot

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

Hi everybody !

 

I have a problem... :ph34r:

 

I'm going to shoot a scene wich is a full steadicam shot going from outside a house to inside. It's a daylight scene.

 

I'm wondering wich stock should i used? Tungsten or Daylight? :unsure:

 

My plan is to shoot natural light for outside and use only photoflood inside.

 

I was thinking to use a 500T with an 85 but what about my photofloods(5600K)?

In fact, if i dim them down they're not going to look greenich or should i use 3200k photoflood?

 

The other issue is that i'm going to use a straw filter(see preview on the link below) :

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...9689&is=REG

 

If use this straw filter with tungsten photoflood dim down it's not going to look too much warm, orange?

 

If someone can help me out, i'll appreciate.

 

Have a nice day.

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, you really should be lighting the interior to the same color temp as the outside, unless you want the difference -- for example, splitting the color difference and letting it look half-blue outside, like at dusk, and half-orange inside.

 

This holds true whether you use tungsten or daylight stock -- the problem is the difference in color temperature.

 

The other problem with lighting the interior with 3200K tungsten is if you still have daylight windows and you can't gel them because you see the outside of the building as well. But if you could solve that problem, and this was for telecine only, it's possible (although not an elegent solution) to make a change in color-correction in post to match the interior to the exterior.

 

The other problem is light level. Let's say it's sunny outside at f/16 on 50 ASA film -- well, you'd have to light the interior to f/2.8 at 50 ASA just to make a stop-change, and that's already a 5-stop pull.

[Chris Keth]

You could also plan the move so that there is a place to put a hidden cut in the transition to outside. That would give you a place to change film/filter(s)/aperture. Doing it this way worked well for me once. Carefully planned, it isn't noticeable unless you look for the cut.

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

Thanks Guys.

 

So quick !:rolleyes:

 

I was already thinking to use a subtle cut but the main idea of the project is the master shot.

 

Anyway, i was also thinking to convert my "pratical light" or "photoflood" to Daylight and use tungsten stock as 500T with an 85filter.

But, as i said above, what's going to happen if i dim down the photoflood?

Aren't they look greenich?

 

Otherwise, if it works, i'm going for that solution...

 

I'm aware about the iris "jump cut", if it make sense <_<

 

I'm in france so i'll say Good Night for here.

[Leon Rodriguez]

Light the interior to 5600K, Then the 500T with the 85 is back to honest and the light color temp is consistant for both inside and out. An 85 is a full color correction from your tungtun film. You can "half-correct" the tungstun film with half-CTO. (which you can do on the lamps).

 

Just some random thoughts. I usually do a partial correction with a coral filter. I like the result. But technically an 85C would be best. An 81EF would also be a great choice. If you're in an experimental mood try Salmon, or Straw. You just want to warm it up, you know? Ask yourself, where do I want to end up? Nothing particularly illegal about skewing reality.

 

If you have a consistant skin tone in the shot. (like you're following someone and their face is in shot throughout the move) try a Tiffen 812 to warm up the 5600K once you've balanced the light for 5600K thoroughout the interior. Good skin tones there. Hope it helps. Good luck.

Edited November 20, 2004 by Leon Rodriguez

[Chris Keth]

I wonder if you could light the int. brightly enough and if the day outside was relatively dim if you could get them relatively close in exposure. That way maybe the exposure change could be done in a way that it'd be less noticeable (or nonexistant)?

[David Mullen ASC]

Depends on how bright it is outside. Like I said, in California sunshine, it is f/16 on 50 ASA film. I've lit interiors to f/2.8 at 50 ASA and THAT'S not easy -- I can't imagine f/16.

 

"Northfork" had a shot of a church with the back wall missing, showing the landscape. It was about f/16 at 50 ASA that day, so I decided to let the background be one-stop overexposed and the interior church in the foreground (Nick Nolte's face) be one-stop underexposed, so a two-stop difference between his face and the background. That meant I had to light his face, as well as parts of the interior, to f/8 at 50 ASA. I ended up shining an 18K HMI directly at him in the wide shot (for close-ups I used a 4'x4' diffusion frame with a closer light.)

 

Your best bet is to either pray for overcast, shoot when the front of the house is in the shade, or shoot very late in the day or at dusk.

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

Thanks again.

 

First of all, about the exposure change :

 

I measured the outside with a 250D stock and it's about 5,6 at this time of year in Paris. It means it'll be 8 with a 500T. So i'm planning to get a 8 outside and 2,8 or 4 if i can inside. I hope...is it too much exposure change? <_<

 

I read your post Leon and i don't understand some parts of it.

As David you suggest to half correct the color of the light and if i follow you're interesting idea i'm wondering how it could look?

 

I mean, if i balance my inside with 5600K light and use a 500T stock with an 81EF or a 85C thoroughout the scene the color will be warm for the outdside as the inside, right? :huh:

 

Also, if i'm bringing down the color temperature around 4000K or 3800K instead of being warm, it's not going to look greenich?

 

Maybe you meant to color correct with an 85C or a 81EF and to add a Straw, Coral or 812?

 

Have a nice day.

[David Mullen ASC]

Is this for telecine transfer only or for print off of the negative?

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

It's gonna be for telecine first and probably, it depends of the money, transfer on film.

 

I was thinking after everything you said to play with the 500T stock, an 85 and a Straw to create a warm 70' effect.

 

Also, using daylight "photoflood" inside on dimmer so they'll look a tiny bit warmer than outside.

[David Mullen ASC]

A blue photoflood is 4800K, not 5500K, so it already is a little warmer than daylight.

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

Thanks again.

 

I have some problem to figure it out about the story of the 85C.

Now, i think i got it; a little bit colder outside than inside.

 

By the way, i know i can save in telecine but i would really like to do the much as i can on the set. You never know with "no budget, independant production".

 

I still know that it's gonna be hard for aperture change. I really hope to be overcast and get an 8 and 4, if i can, inside. For safety i'll get some 2Kw open face.

 

Good night.

[David Mullen ASC]

The aperture change can be hidden if you design the moving shot right. The goal is to not be staring at the SAME background while the aperture is changing (unless it is a very slow change, but this will probably be fast.) You want to hide the aperture change in a pan along a wall or when turning a corner, etc. so that the background is changing as the aperture is changing.

 

You also don't need to overly correct the exposure -- you can play the exterior a little bright and the interior a little dark. You don't want it seem just as bright indoors as outdoors.

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

It can be an idea.

I have to say that for the moment i was concentrate on the color correction issue.

Now i start to think about my level and my aperture thorough the shot.

 

Thanks for everything.

[Arnaud M. St Martin de Veyran]

Hi !

 

David, i have a question again :

 

I was thinking about everything we said and i'm really sure that i'm gonna go for the 500T with an 85C.

 

My question can seems stupid but i'm wondering how will look my photoflood inside? I mean, my film stock is balanced for 3200°K and the 85C is for going from 5600°K to 3800°K, right?

 

So, if now my daylight color is back to 3800°K i know that my exterior will almost look like a tungsten light cover with an 1/4 CTB, still right?

 

Now, my photoflood(3200°K) will look white if i don't dim them down or all the pictures inside will get the amber color of the filter 85C?

 

I'm thinking of that because while you're using an 85 on a 250D stock you don't get the color correction of course, the filter act as a color effect filter...is it the same in that case? :blink:

 

I mean, that using an 85C make now look white only the light around 3800°K or the caracteristic of the film is still the same, 3200°K?

 

I'm a little bit lost but i'll say that 3200°K is still white and only the daylight spectrum is going to be "colder", affected by the filter. <_<

 

Let me know.

 

Thanks. :D

[David Mullen ASC]

You're confusing yourself by overthinking the problem. Start from scratch and it will all make sense.

 

You've got 3200K filmstock. You've got a filter that corrects 5500K daylight to 3800K (the 85C) so the daylight will still look slightly blue when filtered.

 

Now the photofloods are already 3200K -- they don't need a filter on the camera if it's got tungsten film. So if you are using an 85C filter on the camera, they will become a deep orange, almost a Full CTO worth.

 

You'd be better off using blue-dipped photofloods, which are 4800K; then with the 85C filter, they'd be white. Then they would still look warmer than the daylight, so if you printed the daylight to look white, the lamps would look slightly warm.

 

Or you could use something less corrective like an 81EF, let the daylight look half blue and the 3200K tungsten lamps look half orange. But then you're stuck with the color temp split no matter what unless you do a hidden color-correction change during the move in post.